Location Pages Change (Allowing for Hybrids)

[Armorchompy]

"If a location is better represented by another profile format, such as a Weapon or a Character, then it is best to pick them over the above format."

That's a rule about our Location pages, which heavily discourages the creation of hybrid pages. As I understand it, it was created because a hybrid of two wildly different formats looks overlong and ugly. Maybe it does. But forbidding the creation of a page because "it looks ugly" is an incredibly stupid thing to do, because our profiles aren't here to look pretty, they're here to convey as much information as possible regarding a character, and if literally half of a character's noteworthy features has to be excluded from the page because "it looks unprofessional", then unprofessional it can look for all it matters, it should be there, because not including that much noteworthy information IS unprofessional, and how! It's like ignoring a feat because it makes the speed section of a page too long, or refusing to add resistances to a long page because it would require double/triple tabbers, we value function over form here, not the other way around.

I'm open to suggestions for alternate methods of creating hybrid profiles than slapping all the statistics in one long list, which looks roughly like this. Again, it's a bit clunky, I'm not putting that into question, but not only is it really not that bad, but it actually expresses all the information relevant to The Spire, which would not be possible if we were to profile it as a character (Which would completely ignore the effects it has on those inhabiting it, and the many noteworthy features it has) or as a location (Which would mean not accounting for the parts of it that can actually fight, which are obviously very noteworthy on their own)

So yeah, hybrid profiles gotta exist, it's completely antithetical to our philosophy to forbid them especially for something as trivial as "I don't like how they look", which is an issue I'm sure can be at least diminished with a bit of work put into smoothening them.

EDIT: Open to discussion from non-staff if they have something productive to say.

 

[KieranH10]

Good luck...

I want nothing to do with this subject, to be clear.

 

[Shmooply]

you really want to make a profile for that spire huh
The template looks fine at a glance

 

[Armorchompy]

Good luck...

I want nothing to do with this subject, to be clear.

Thanks for the support

 

[Armorchompy]

Anyway @Antvasima I would appreciate if you could tag some people.

 

[Dalesean027]

I actually like the look and idea of this so I'm following

 

[KieranH10]

For the record I agree with this proposal. But it's essentially identical to the original from the last Location Threads, so I know of people who absolutely don't agree with this.

That's all I'm saying on the matter, count me for agreement, but that is all.
Also, you're allowed to call peeps yourself Armor lol.

I shall now watch from the shadows.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I know some profiles that would benefit from a hybrid profile, like Space Colony Ark and the Death Star.

Following.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @Promestein @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @Dino_Ranger_Black @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @QuasiYuri @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @Confluctor @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer

What do you think about this?

For the record, I don't want us to experiment with and mix and match different formats, as it sets a very bad precedents for all pages in our wiki in general.

 

[Antvasima]

I also much prefer if we stick with our standard structures.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

This seems fine, I think

Also, mostly-unrelated, I didn't know we had profiles for Slay the Spire, kinda based tbh

 

[Armorchompy]

I also much prefer if we stick with our standard structures.

No offense, but our current structures do not allow making profiles for cases such as the ones I have illustrated. Are we supposed to just ignore most of the information that we should convey because of a fear of experimenting?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral for now till I hear more input.

 

[Damage3245]

I am also neutral for now.

 

[Antvasima]

No offense, but our current structures do not allow making profiles for cases such as the ones I have illustrated. Are we supposed to just ignore most of the information that we should convey because of a fear of experimenting?

We cannot allow our members to decide on a whim how to set up pages in increasingly incoherent manners. We have our standard format instruction pages set up for good reasons, so our content is streamlined, and if we allow making arbitrary choices for some such pages, we will set a very bad precedent to do so elsewhere as well, which will increasingly turn our wiki into a mess that will turn extremely hard to clean up.

 

[Armorchompy]

We cannot allow our members to decide on a whim how to set up pages in increasingly incoherent manners.

Which is why we should set a standard for this sort of page.

We have our standard format instruction pages set up for good reasons, so our content is streamlined, and if we allow making arbitrary choices for some such pages, we will set a very bad precedent to do so elsewhere as well, which will increasingly turn our wiki into a mess that will turn extremely hard to clean up.

No offense, but nothing here is addressing the actual argument. The way our current location format works, a profile cannot simultaneously highlight something as a character and as a location, both of which can be very important.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if all you want to do is for us to set up a standard format for characters that are also locations, such as Ego the Living Planet, that is obviously fine with me. I thought that you wanted to let members decide how to mix page formats on their own.

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, definitely not, we should set up a standard. And yeah, Ego is a great example of a profile that would benefit from this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Characters who are also doubled as locations normally would have character profile stuff; but I wouldn't mind adding location stuff/hybrid profiling it. To be fair, Civilization profiles do have things where certain character profile stats are also allowed to be added such as speed and durability and what not.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Idk, characters are much more important to our page than location profiles. If it's a character it might be better to focus on it as a character.
Additionally, the point of location profiles is to be used as battle stages. A character as a battle stage kinda messes with outside influence considerations.

 

[Dalesean027]

Idk, characters are much more important to our page than location profiles. If it's a character it might be better to focus on it as a character.
Additionally, the point of location profiles is to be used as battle stages. A character as a battle stage kinda messes with outside influence considerations.

Eh but that's still not always the case as say Characters like @Armorchompy mentioned like Ego fit perfectly into this mold especially his MCU counterpart who can make Avatar's to fight with on his planet itself which he can also freely control and shape it's environment so getting those location conditions would actually fit pretty well

Some characters can very well end up ad a battle ground while still being the fighter itself

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think profiles looking ugly is absolutely a reason to block 'em, tbh. At the very least, at the baseline level, we have to have our profiles comprehensible and of a certain level of quality. I strongly doubt these "necessary hybrid profiles" would work for that. This is in addition to considerations others have mentioned.

Put me on the disagree list.

 

[Armorchompy]

Additionally, the point of location profiles is to be used as battle stages. A character as a battle stage kinda messes with outside influence considerations.

Our site is an indexing one, vsbattles aren't the primary goal of it despite the title and we should not base our profiles on vs battles, otherwise all 10-B characters with abilities not apt to combat should be deleted and that is obviously dumb. We are an indexing site and if a character is both a location and a combatant they should be listed as both for the sake of thoroughness. Secondarily, I also agree with Dale's comment, a character can sometimes be its own battleground.

I think profiles looking ugly is absolutely a reason to block 'em, tbh. At the very least, at the baseline level, we have to have our profiles comprehensible and of a certain level of quality. I strongly doubt these "necessary hybrid profiles" would work for that. This is in addition to considerations others have mentioned.

But it is comprehensible. There's a couple extra points listed but they're still less than a very thorough "pure" character profile. There is precedent for hybridization with weapon/vehicle/civilization profiles, so why should locations be the exception?

 

[AKM sama]

Why do we need to make a hybrid page? If there is a character who also acts as a location, can't you simply make the page for the character? Like Ego?

 

[Armorchompy]

Because the character is also noteworthy as a location and has a lot of cool things to index.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Armor gave me the ok to post here.

So, I wanted to bring up Hell from DOOM, as it's actually a very good example for this. It's a location, stated to be a living entity, AND is a civilization with cities such as Immora, a seeming government and ranks in their army (with Arch-Viles being commanders and the Icon being the head of their army as of Eternal). But none of these individual profiles or even a hybrid between character and location or character and civilization would properly surmise all of the information about Hell. A hybrid between Location and Civilization would be able to cover all of the information, though.

For this reason, I believe that hybrid profiles should be allowed, and my opinion is that someone just needs to come up with standard formats for what these pages would look like. Like, a format for Character-Location, or a format for Civilization-Location and whatever other variations exist if they are notable.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Is making two pages for the same entity, one being a character page and one being a Location page out of the question?

 

[Axxtentacle]

That defeats the point of having hybrids in any scenario, no? If we use that logic then there's no real point to hybrids for any profile type.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Yah I'm saying we could have that as a solution instead

 

[Axxtentacle]

Seems a bit pointless to have multiple files for 1 thing

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Seems a bit pointless to have multiple files for 1 thing

I agree.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

No offense, but our current structures do not allow making profiles for cases such as the ones I have illustrated. Are we supposed to just ignore most of the information that we should convey because of a fear of experimenting?

That is a good point.

Yes, we can do our best to continue to adhere to things, but the world and the things we put on the wiki are too various for our "standard" formats to apply, so Hop agrees with you here. If it is not "standard" than it can be unique, by definition, and we should loosen up on that.

 

[Armorchompy]

Is making two pages for the same entity, one being a character page and one being a Location page out of the question?

I don't think it's completely out of the question but it seems like a pretty clumsy solution. I guess I'd prefer it to nothing, but I'd rather have one file with all the information.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I do believe an alternative would be to make two pages for the same location so like: Hell (Creature) and Hell (Location) for DOOM.

Although I'm leaning more to Armor's suggestion. We will always have the odd character that can't be meaningfully represented on a profile without some fiddling of the basic format. As long as it's kept neat and legible I think anything goes really.

 

[Crabwhale]

I'm neutral on this, as I have no particular interest in arena pages.

 

[AKM sama]

Because the character is also noteworthy as a location and has a lot of cool things to index.

Won't these things normally be indexed in their powers and abilities, or techniques sections?

 

[Armorchompy]

Won't these things normally be indexed in their powers and abilities, or techniques sections?

I don't think that's possible no. You could probably adapt some parts like Passive Effects or Size into P&A but stuff like "Notable Inhabitants/Areas/Objects" really can't be gracefully indexed at all, and secondary stuff like Location/Environment can't be either. I'm fairly confident that there's no way to put most of that stuff in a character file beyond making massive edits to the format, which is what I'm already suggesting except more chaotic and not regulated, aka worse.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we include an extra section with instructions for how mixed pages should look in our Locations standard format page then?

 

[Armorchompy]

In my opinion yes.

 

[KieranH10]

Isn't this up to all of the Bureaucrats? It certainly was when I was proposing this same idea...