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LLT revisions

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Idol_of_Legend_and_Elimination

Idol_of_Legend_and_Elimination

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Previous thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2355995

I'm gonna repeat the following on the previous thread:

"So this question has been going on in my head for a while.

Because according to Monarch: LLT has 1-A killing power. But it's a 3D weapon and won't work on higher-dimensional beings.

But then Redgrave said: LLT affected True Marie. Also Rindou used it to kill Momiji (who is 1-A)

So which case is true here? If what Redgrave said was true then I think LLT's range should get upgraded or sth."

And its speed should get upgraded as well

In summary, if the spear works on higher-dimensional beings, the following should be changed:

Speed: Infinite => Irrelevant

Range: Universal => Irrelevant
 
It had a conduit to affect Marie on the twilight beach. Namely, Marie's weird "her but not the real her" in Ren's arm.

The spear didn't straight up teleport over to the twilight beach to hit her.

Hence, I stand by my statement that if something is higher dimensional and thus existing on a completely different "line" to the LLT, the LLT cannot hit it. So any purely higher dimensional beings would not be hittable by the LLT. Ones with lower D avatars that it can strike through to the real being would though.
 
I do think it's odd how a three dimensional weapon has 1-A stats. Although Masada-verse is basically the definition of odd via it's translation making it nuts.

To a 1-A being, a 3-D weapon would theoretically look like a dot on a plane. I guess it's just the properties of LLT that make it's EE so potent. Although it's justification on his attack potency section is a bit vague.

"The Longinuslanze Testament is described as washing away the world of Foreknowledge, and like Reinhard, is the manifestation of Mercurius's desire to die."

Is the 'world of foreknoweledge' the 1-A Nature of throne and the Omni-verse a 'Heaven' resides over?

I also think it's weird how his page emphasises how LLT doesn't have it's undodgeable nature when Reinhard doesn't have all 8 swastikas open. Doesn't it have 1-A existance errasure in Reinhard's 4-A key? Why would it's speed matter.

I probably didn't add much here. I am really new to posting so feel free to remove.
 
@SCP

The speed matters because if it can hurt a higher-dimensional being, that means it can move to higher-dimensions. Which means its speed must be faster than Infinite if it works like that.
 
@ItsEliminationTime in regards to 1-A EE speed is surely irrelevant via definition. 1-A beings are way past the concept of distance and time. If something has 1-A EE it would have to be at an irrelevant/immesureable speed.
 
@SCP-Uroshima Having 1-A potency in one form of hax does not mean being 1-A in every way.

@EliminationTime Marie had a conduit. Momoji may have been her own internal outerverse, but I'm willing to be she was still standing there in front of Rindou to get hit.

There is no proof that the LLT can move to higher dimensions. Only that it can apparently affect 1-A beings through their avatars.
 
SCP-Uroshima said:
If something has 1-A EE it would have to be at an irrelevant/immesureable speed.
Click to expand...
This is what I was referring to.

Just because something has 1-A EE does not mean it needs to move at irrelevant speed.
 
"Because according to Monarch: LLT has 1-A killing power. But it's a 3D weapon and won't work on higher-dimensional beings.

But then Redgrave said: LLT affected True Marie. Also Rindou used it to kill Momiji (who is 1-A)"

Can't both of these things be correct then?

Does that mean 4-A Reinhards 1-A EE only works if it's against something with a 3d avatar?
 
I have a question which may sounds stupid, but isn't that how avatars work in Masadaverse, where if the avatar was killed then so is the true form? Or the spear actually works like that?
 
If LLT was able to hit higher dimensional characters, it would be immesurable instead of infinite
 
Schnee One said:
If LLT was able to hit higher dimensional characters, it would be immesurable instead of infinite
Click to expand...
I think it would be straight up Irrelevant because it's 1-A.
 
Would this mean that Reinhard's spear could kill Beatrice's 26d true self through her avatar in the inconclusive match or would the spear hax only work on higher dimensional characters with specific types of avatars?
 
ItsEliminationTime said:
So is this done? That LLT won't work on Higher-dimensional beings and can only affect them through their avatars?
Click to expand...
Done? The debate hasn't really started.

Monarch threw down his point of view, let others contest it.

I feel like ALRF should look at this and give his point of view, as he is very knowledgeable on the series.
 
I contacted ALRF, and although he stated that he doesn't have the time to partake in any long discussions, which he believes this could become, he did make a statement on his opinions.

"I've already stated my opinion on it in a thread I believe. Reinhard affected Marie despite her not being "there". Using Ren's Holy Relic that houses Marie's as a way to disapprove is nothing.

In fact, even if you tried to use that it still wouldn't matter. Ren's Holy Relic houses Marie but not Twilight Beach (which is a dimension existing outside of Throne Reach). Reinhard speared Ren's Holy Relic which affected Twilight Beach, opened a hole in there. So even if you try to argue Ren houses Marie completely (which is wrong anyway), nothing debunks Reinhard LLT reaching realms beyond outside Throne domain which encompasses all dimensions in existence."
 
"Reinhard speared Ren's Holy Relic which affected Twilight Beach, opened a hole in there. So even if you try to argue Ren houses Marie completely (which is wrong anyway), nothing debunks Reinhard LLT reaching realms beyond outside Throne domain which encompasses all dimensions in existence"

This is confusing to me. Does LLT kill Marie via striking Rens holy relic or does the spear actually appear in the twilight beach and strike Marie? I feel like this is important to clarify.
 
SCP-Uroshima said:
"Reinhard speared Ren's Holy Relic which affected Twilight Beach, opened a hole in there. So even if you try to argue Ren houses Marie completely (which is wrong anyway), nothing debunks Reinhard LLT reaching realms beyond outside Throne domain which encompasses all dimensions in existence"
This is confusing to me. Does LLT kill Marie via striking Rens holy relic or does the spear actually appear in the twilight beach and strike Marie? I feel like this is important to clarify.
Click to expand...
The LLT doesn't kill Marie for one.

I'll try and explain the scene as best as I remember it. But tbf, I don't remember very much, but it will still help to bring context to the matter at hand:

After Ren rushes Reinhard and goes to slice his neck off, something happens. The scythe doesn't pierce Reinhard's neck, Reinhard smiles at the attempt and processes to grab the scythe with his hand and crushes the scythe into pieces.

For an instant, Ren believes himself to have killed by this action because, when he faced another user of Die Ewigkeit, Rote Spinne, and when he destroyed that user's Holy Relic, that user was killed. He passes out and is captured shortly after.

We are given a scene showing that Marie is, in fact, still alive, and is within Reinhard's castle.

Later, when Ren awakes and is brought to Reinhard for a discussion, he asks Reinhard why he isn't dead - Reinhard laughs. He then asks Ren why did he believe he would die, Ren explains what happened to Spinne, and Reinhard clarifies that the reason that Spinne died wasn't because the Holy Relic was destroyed, but that the "soul" that resides within the physical shell of a Holy Relic was destroyed.

What Reinhard destroyed was the outer shell to Ren's Holy Relic, and that he made sure to persevere the "soul" within - he states that it was a simple feat. Ren silently disagrees, comparing it to crushing the shell of peanut without crushing the nuts inside.

Knowing that Marie's alive, Ren demands her back and threatens Reinhard if he already hurt her. Reinhard agrees and states that he is not the kind of man to touch his best friend's woman.

At the end of their conversation, a light flashes, blinding Ren as suddenly he feels a weight being thrown upon him. Reinhard wishes him farewell and disappears.

Later, Ren wakes up once again to Marie with him once again. He immediately begins checking her body for any injuries. Marie then does something out of character for her, she begins to feel nervous from Ren's intense staring at her body and declares that he is being a pervert.

Ren is thoroughly surprised by this, as is the audience. Marie, up until this point, was rather child-like and innocent, she was completely oblivious to the world. For her personality to make a 180 is quite jarring.

The reason for her change in character and her new array of empathy is because the LLT actually touched her, leaving a small hole, allowing her to intake new sensations and emotions that, while common to people like you and me, were completely alien to her till that point.


That's mostly what I remember, I feel like I am forgetting some important stuff, but whatever. So...

Reinhard destroys the physical shell of Ren's Holy Relic in their brief "fight", while his spear - like ALRF said - went to the Twilight Beach (which is a space outside the 1-A Throne), making a hole in space to get there to effect Marie.

So yeah, the spear can travel through 1-A space.

Which makes a lot of sense actually, as Reinhard was specifically designed to kill Mercurius by Mercurius. And logically, why would Mercurius have Reinhard's spear always have the power to kill him, but not the ability to reach him? That makes no sense, really.
 
I think based on Warren's post above it's pretty clear LLT's range should be changed to irrelevant, which it isn't on his page currently.

I assume the above feat was Reinhard in his 4-A form?
 
SCP-Uroshima said:
I think based on Warren's post above it's pretty clear LLT's range should be changed to irrelevant, which it isn't on his page currently.
I assume the above feat was Reinhard in his 4-A form?
Click to expand...
Well. Reinhard's 4-A with 1-A growth is after all Eight Swastikas are opened.

At the time the feat happened, not all Swastikas were opened, so he was significantly weaker.

How much weaker? I don't know.
 
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