Anima beyond fantasy revisions part 1: Gnosis 40 and the wake

[LazerDim8000]

It's not the nature of the Arcane what is being brought into question. Romeo was not lying per se about that part, but that doesn't make what he said truth: if you're familiarized with the setting, you could notice there's a bunch of pressuring stuff happening since the Emperor was assassinated and Elisabetha sat on the throne. Several Principalities claimed independence, other are in the blink of war, and no mind the entities who are lining up to wreck havoc. In some form, Gaïa is in chaos... but Baal is not responsible of that, and for it to break free the moment the world collide in war is unlikely (you can listen to Nameless saying the seals will prevail for centuries). That the instant the world explodes somehow Baal breaks free is Romeo's desilusion; Baal almost escaped from its binding this time because of what the Bearer did, otherwise nothing would've happened.

For further support, here's a statement from the author after the game was released:

Does Baal retain any ability to affect Gaïa in his current state? Could he manipulate
others or create an avatar to try to free himself as the Shadow of Omega?
No. Baal cannot affect Gaïa directly in any way and he CANNOT create an avatar. On the other
hand, he CAN influence creatures that meet one of the following two requirements:
1- For some reason they have his blood, objects of his or have been affected / influenced by
creatures linked to Baal (and in these cases I am referring to things he released / created or
influenced in the past, during the third shadow war).
2- Extremely evil people who, by mere chance, are not akin to any kind of demonic entity or hell.
In these "gaps" Baal can act.

This is a case where author statements contradict in game lore. The unknown confirms Baal was going to manifest on Gaia and ergo states that Baal is Indeed linked to the real world.

The seals were practically useless, if they were truly long lasting the nameless wouldn’t have promptly sought to stop Baal before he fully awakened.

 

[Antoniofer]

The ritual performed by Lady must had enacted the gradual awakening of Baal to the point he almost broke free, that much is clear. However, prior to the events, and after all the trip to the Arcane is done, Baal's influence over Gaïa had been, and it is, minimal (there's an ongoing relationship between it and The Five, but he is by far, incapable to bring large-scale chaos to the real world).

Don't think I have anything more to say about Baal unless the staff ask something. I can drop this out last particular discussion and leave the staff to deliver. In the meanwhile, is there something other to say about other of my input given, or want me to speak about another suggestion of yours that I haven't brought up yet?

 

[LazerDim8000]

The ritual performed by Lady must had enacted the gradual awakening of Baal to the point he almost broke free, that much is clear. However, prior to the events, and after all the trip to the Arcane is done, Baal's influence over Gaïa had been, and it is, minimal (there's an ongoing relationship between it and The Five, but he is by far, incapable to bring large-scale chaos to the real world).

You first said Baal's influence on the real world was null, but I've proven that’s not the case. You also agreed that Baal was capable of warping existence into his personal hell. Now you claim he was by far incapable of bringing about large scale chaos? What do you think he would have done to reality if he hadn’t been stopped by ergo from manifesting on Gaia ? This is a being who was able to create multiple worlds out of memories, It would not have a problem doing so

 

[Antoniofer]

Now you claim he was by far incapable of bringing about large scale chaos?

I meant as in now, it cannot influence the world, not after the events of the game nor before them (barring the third Secret War). Really, all this misunderstanding came from taking Romeo's speech as true. Baal hadn't the chance to make any meaningful change in Gaïa since the third Secrete War. Romeo's speech about Baal being responsible of Gaïa many problems is an utter lie.

 

[LazerDim8000]

I meant as in now, it cannot influence the world, not after the events of the game nor before them (barring the third Secret War). Really, all this misunderstanding came from taking Romeo's speech as true. Baal hadn't the chance to make any meaningful change in Gaïa since the third Secrete War. Romeo's speech about Baal being responsible of Gaïa many problems is an utter lie.

And where was it said that he was incapable of doing such? If he is not able to make any meaningful change, why were they trying to stop him from manifesting on Gaia in the first place? Romeo had no reason to lie twice, even after revealing his true plans

 

[LazerDim8000]

You could, although personally I'd like to wait a bit (maybe a day or so) to see if Anton has any more points, rather than rush this one through.

What do you think? It’s been over 24 hours. I’ve also removed the stuff about the Wake and Immortality Type 7 negation.

 

[Antoniofer]

And where was it said that he was incapable of doing such? If he is not able to make any meaningful change, why were they trying to stop him from manifesting on Gaia in the first place? Romeo had no reason to lie twice, even after revealing his true plans

Well, for the record, Baal had done nothing since it was sealed. You can skim through the books and his name will only be mentioned when refering the third Secret War, but not in any other occasion. During GoM, he had to be stopped because of Romeo's screwup, whom only goal for entering in the Arcane was to feed Ergo with power, renew his sealings, and use him as a controlable menace to join humankin under the same flag.

Because you see, Romeo Exxet believe himself to be the Savior of Humankin; the Chosen of God. He suffer from delusions of grandeur. If I fall, humankin falls with me! he said; after Elienai went to confront him, he admited everything was his fault. He was the sole responsible of everything what happened in the game.

EDIT: And if it means anything, in this alternative ending you can see what happens once Romeo's plans met an early end.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Well, for the record, Baal had done nothing since it was sealed. You can skim through the books and his name will only be mentioned when refering the third Secret War, but not in any other occasion. During GoM, he had to be stopped because of Romeo's screwup, whom only goal for entering in the Arcane was to feed Ergo with power, renew his sealings, and use him as a controlable menace to join humankin under the same flag.

Because you see, Romeo Exxet believe himself to be the Savior of Humankin; the Chosen of God. He suffer from delusions of grandeur. If I fall, humankin falls with me! he said; after Elienai went to confront him, he admited everything was his fault. He was the sole responsible of everything what happened in the game.

EDIT: And if it means anything, in this alternative ending you can see what happens once Romeo's plans met an early end.

Instead of debating Romeo’s truthfulness extensively(he had no reason to lie), I could change the low multi range justification to him having links (literal anchors) to the real world from the arcane, or him possessing a key to other planes as one of the five

 

[Antoniofer]

The anchors, like described in the game, were only the consequences of the disaster orchestrated by Romeo, and it was what would allow Baal to manifest in Gaïa during that instance. Note that isn't like the possibilities for Baal to influence the real world are zero; it can still influence certain individuals, like it already did with Druaga, but nevertheless, he cannot influence the real world directly on its own, no mind cast spells within his banishment. As for the Five, it is unknown how Baal operates within the group, but given it lacks a physical form, is highly unlikely it travels from one demi-plane to another.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Gonna add what’s been accepted today or the next

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yeah, that's fine.