Lightspeed Re:Zero Characters

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Should be relatively straight forward, Anastasia Hoshi uses jiwald which is lightspeed, and Reid reacts to not only one but ten of them and cuts them as he can even cut light:

"Jiwald!!"

The heat ray was unleashed towards the pair who were exchanging blows in their mid-air battlefield. The white light's simplicity was mirrored in the fearsome way it ate away at the world around it. In other words, it was a heat-wave of a blade which burned up, burned away, and eliminated anything it touched.

As a straight-line attack, it might seem like it would have the weakness of being easy to avoid - however, the heat ray forcefully smashed things at a speed not unlike that of light, attacking straight at it's prey. Even the 'club wielder' offered no resistance to the shot of light from a third party...

"...My sword can cut even light, punk."

Before the mocking voice could be heard, the heat ray had been cut apart from the front by a chopstick slash.

The scene exceeded imagining, and everyone stared at the impossible illusion. But, the man simply smirked as though that was perfectly normal, and continued to make sport of Julius with his empty hand.

Almost as if mocking him - no, actually, grandly mocking him.

"...! Jiwaaaaald!!"

In the face of that, eyes became bloodshot, and the incantation echoed again. Spreading both hands, incanting the magic to fire the heat ray, Anastasia pretty face was twisted into a death mask. From her outstretched fingers - the fingers of both hands, ten points in all, each simultaneously fired, sending ten rays of death dancing all at once towards the 'club wielder'.

...but the 'club wielder' used an astonishing method to dodge them.

"Ack!"

Just like before, the 'club wielder' slashed away all the lights with his chopsticks, and in the next instant kicked at a spot in the air that should have been empty, suddenly diving straight dow... taking Julius with him, crushed beneath his body, to where they landed on the white floor. He struck Julius in the center of his chest with his chopsticks, knocking him to the floor.

So Anastasia Hoshi while being possessed by Echidna with jiwald has lightspeed attack speed, and consequently anyone who can use jiwald is lightspeed, Echidna is the one who made the spell and also who made the artificial spirit Echidna ,Lewes Meyer and Sphinx (Re:Zero), all of them can use jiwald.

Reid Astrea should be FTL, he was able to react to and cut 10 jiwalds at once, with chopsticks... This also means Reinhard van Astrea is FTL as Reinhard is stronger than Reid, and also means Satella (Re:Zero), is FTL for being able to stalemate Reinhard and being capable of defeating Reid.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump

 

[Hala00]

So a lot of characters have lightspeed attack speed, for starters all the authority users and all who can rival them?

I'm going with the logic that lots of archbishops/some witches are stronger than Echidna so they have lightspeed attack speed, if they dodge her attacks/attack her?

Idk

Edit: It really seems wrong that many characters do have lightspeed attack but learning that Echidna is lightspeed is shocking, I thought she was weaker than that.

 

[Blanked]

So, lightspeed attack (for those with jiwald )and lightspeed reactions for those that can react on it? Since I don't think we can just scale their actual speed.

 

[ZERO7772]

I am not so sure about this

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No archbishop will be upgraded from this, jiwald is a specific technique used by echidna, sphinx and lewes, that is lightspeed, however people usually aim dodge it, like what happened in the ex novel with sphinx from what i understand, only reid has legit reacted to it.

It's a not big deal to deal with if you just aim dodge it or speed blitz the person before they use it, don't see why this would be an issue, and a lot of abilities make it pointless anyway like it wouldn't work on regulus, capella being able to regen, you dying if you actually killed sirius with it, but you would probably woud'nt get the chance as your emotions would be manipulated before you do anything.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Any Lightspeed Feats or just statements? This isn't the first Light Novel to have this. Look at "Lightspeed" To Aru.

 

[ZERO7772]

none from what i recall

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The move is a heat wave that is specially said to travel in a straight line and move at lightspeed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So the character literally fired a beam of heat described as lightspeed which was sliced in half by a character said to cut light?

Seems like an actual feat, but input is needed.

 

[ZERO7772]

didn't you read the scene above ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yes you are correct as this part says:

"The heat ray was unleashed towards the pair who were exchanging blows in their mid-air battlefield. The white light's simplicity was mirrored in the fearsome way it ate away at the world around it. In other words, it was a heat-wave of a blade which burned up, burned away, and eliminated anything it touched.

As a straight-line attack, it might seem like it would have the weakness of being easy to avoid - however, the heat ray forcefully smashed things at a speed not unlike that of light, attacking straight at it's prey. Even the 'club wielder' offered no resistance to the shot of light from a third party..."

Seems legit to me.

 

[Hala00]

About the archbishops, I mostly agree but what about Ley/Roy/Louis? They all managed to dodge Julius's attacks? Doesn't that make them "Lightspeed" too?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Julius isn't lightspeed, only people who are lightspeed are people who can use jiwald, and again it's not that big a deal if you can speedblitz the person before they use it or aim dodge, julius didn't react to jiwald and even if he did it would be an outlier as he is only supersonic+, only reid level ppl are legit FTL.

 

[Blanked]

Julia isn't going to be scaled on light speed attack let's not be funny now.

 

[ZERO7772]

Lol light speed julius sound like a joke

that would make shaula light speed as well btw

 

[Blanked]

Julius isn't lightspeed, only people who are lightspeed are people who can use jiwald, and again it's not that big a deal if you can speedblitz the person before they use it or aim dodge, julius didn't react to jiwald and even if he did it would be an outlier as he is only supersonic, only reid level ppl are legit FTL.

Honestly by that logic even Reid and others should be outlier since we talk about from MHS to FTL.

 

[Hala00]

Oh so Julius didn't dodge lightspeed attacks, thanks for explaining~

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@William reid said he can even cut light and is a god tier in the verse, how is this an outlier?

 

[ZERO7772]

who will this scale to anyway ? reid - reinhard - satella - shaula i guess ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty much just those people, sphinx, echidna, lewes gets lightspeed attack speed with jiwald.

 

[Blanked]

@Celestial it could just be a hyperbole and worthless bragging since he really looks like one to brag. Example of God Serena saying he can slay any dragon and gets killed in a single swipe by Acnolgoia before he even realised what happened.

He could as well simple have Precogntion like Reinhard since we talk about almost the same strength.

Anyway I am fine with how you consider this,but I can't say it doesn't look weird to have a similar jump in their reaction speed,but at the same time it kinda is the strong point of this verse from the very begging.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Reid is the same dude who can behead regulus who resides in a different different, cutting through light isn't that unbelievable. Precog only seems to be a reinhard thing from what info we have, and even if he knew the attack was coming, he was still fast enough to react to ten of them after they were fired, he is legit FTL.

 

[Blanked]

^well if those laser are fast as light I guess he does have that reaction speed. Guess this is just another Trinty Seven example,except for them actually move on similar speed.

 

[ZERO7772]

btw doesn't reacting to light speed make you MSH ?

 

[Hala00]

It's might be the author saying that Reid would figure out Regulus's authority or that he would push him out of his wives zone, not that he can straight up kill him while he is using his authority. Basically just like Reinhard, Reinhard couldn't kill Regulus while he was using his authority but he could push him away from his wives and kill him.

 

[ZERO7772]

I am still not 100% into this upgarde btw

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Reacting to light usually makes you relativistic, but he reacted to 10 of them so he is FTL.

 

[ZERO7772]

couldn't he expected the direction of each one of them ? reinhard have stuff like this

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

"In the face of that, eyes became bloodshot, and the incantation echoed again. Spreading both hands, incanting the magic to fire the heat ray, Anastasia pretty face was twisted into a death mask. From her outstretched fingers - the fingers of both hands, ten points in all, each simultaneously fired, sending ten rays of death dancing all at once towards the 'club wielder'.

...but the 'club wielder' used an astonishing method to dodge them.

"Ack!"

Just like before, the 'club wielder' slashed away all the lights with his chopsticks"

He clearly reacted to them after they were fired, and again even if he did have precog, which we don't know if he does and are just assuming he does cause reinhard does when reinhard has a lot of blessings not related to being the sword saint, he still needed to be fast enough to react to them, in order to cut all of them. He is pretty clearly FTL.

 

[ZERO7772]

Emilia is light speed

 

[Blanked]

^why?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Zero we already went over this, reid was distracted with fondling emilia's breast, she isn't FTL, no one who isn't reid level is FTL, if they land hits on reid or anything it's just pis.

 

[ZERO7772]

then anyone with **** is able to land hit , priscilla will be MTFL

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I would add furthermore that 'speed of light' was written as it is and quoted consistently in both native Japanese and Korean version of the text. It's not a hyperbole.


I will explain a bit further.


Tappei has an interesting way of describing the advantages and weaknesses of each of the spell he creates.
The tactical weakness of Jiwald is that it travels in a straight line - because it is light. Because it runs straight, it seems easy to dodge.
The spell's potency compensates for this with its lightspeed, and being able to shoot multiple lasers simultaneously. (the 'simultaneous volley' is an important factor to eliminate the possibility of aim-dodging when the deflecting object is a chopstick. I will explain below)
It's a simple logic that explains the utility of the spell, but along with the literal phrase itself, it does add weight to the conjecture that the spell is indeed meant to be lightspeed from a contextual perspective (there is no need for the narrator to emphasize the spell's pros and cons otherwise).

Therefore, the spell is Lightspeed which intentionally compensates for its straight trajectory.

I will now describe the situation under which the spell is being fired and deflected, to show that Reid is cutting the beams themselves and that it is not an aim-dodge setting.

Reid is currently fighting Julius with chopsticks midair. Echidnastasia is a 'third party' to that battle. (ÒüòÒüùÒééÒü«『µúƵî»Òéè』ÒééÒÇüþ¼¼õ©ëÞÇàÒü½ÒéêÒéïÕàëÒü«õ©ÇµÆâÒü½Òü»õ¢òÒü«µèÁµèùÒéé――ÒÇü)
Echidnastasia is trying to hit Reid from a vantage position with Jiwald, while Julius distracts the former Sword Saint in the air.
The first attack that seemed guaranteed to hit fails. After the failed first attack, Echidnastasia is firing ten lasers simultaneously each time she casts the spell, from each of her finger tips. (Õ¢╝ÕÑ│Òü»Õ║âÒüÆÒüƒõ║öµîç――õ©íµëïÒü«µîçÒÇüÕÉêÒéÅÒüøÒüªÕìüµ£¼Òü«Õàêþ½»ÒüïÒéëÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒü×Òéîþå▒þÀÜÒéÆÕÉîµÖéÒü½µö¥Õ░äÒÇüÕìüµØíÒü«µ¡╗þÀÜÒüîõ©ÇµûëÒü½『µúƵî»Òéè』þø«µÄøÒüæÞ©èÒéèÒüïÒüïÒüúÒüƒÒÇé/ From her outstretched fingers - the fingers of both hands, ten points in all, each simultaneously fired, sending ten rays of death dancing all at once towards the 'club wielder'.)
Reid consistently deflects all of the simultaneous lasers with one hand. (Just like before, the 'club wielder' slashed away all the lights with his chopsticks)

It may still be argued that Reid is aim-dodging by reacting to the incantation rather than to the lasers themselves.
However, there are counter-counter-arguments to this as well.
The first is that deflection in the above manner - by reacting to the incantation - would very likely require some form of precognition for proper defense.
Reid has to know which parts of his body the simultaneously fired lasers are going to hit, and should already begin moving his chopstick hand to deflect all of them (while the other free hand (Òü¬ÒüèÒééþ®║ÒüäÒüƒþëçµëïÒüºÒâªÒâ¬ÒéªÒé╣ÒéÆÕ¼▓ÒéïÒü«ÒéÆþÂÖþÂÜÒüÖÒéïÒÇé) occupies Julius), before the spell is fired. But there is no evidence of precognition being utilized for a deflection style of defense.

In addition, the narration specifically notes that Reid did not begin moving to resist the attack until after Jiwald was already fired. (The heat ray was unleashed towards the pair... [4 lines of sentences describing speed of light] ... Even the 'club wielder' offered no resistance to the shot of light from a third party...)

He's also using a pair of chopsticks. They are shorter and thinner than a knife, meaning that each of the lasers have to be intercepted individually with a cutting motion. (unlike a large sword which a user can just put on the trajectory's way) (Before the mocking voice could be heard, the heat ray had been cut apart from the front by a chopstick slash.)

Reid cut the lightspeed beam itself after it was fired.
The entire narrative purpose of the text is to show Reid boasting that a Sword Saint is powerful enough to deflect and cut even light, from the front before it reaches the Saint, from simultaneous directions, even during an ambush, and Reid showing off all of this himself. (...My sword can cut even light, punk.)


Summary:

The WoG says that Jiwald is a straight-line (key weakness) speed-of-light (key advantage) technique. We have strong evidence that the spell's weakness and advantage are both intentional, and that they are meant to adhere to the actual properties of light at at least basic levels by an author who has a careful writing style.
As a general rule of WoG, it can be refuted if the statement is explicitly contradicted by what is actually seen on the screen, or if it is inconsistent with, or breaks, the rest of the setting and narrative (such as ostensibly lightspeed combatants being threatened by slower attacks in other parts of the story). I argue, however, that this is not the case with a Sword Saint.

We also have evidence by narration that Reid had blocked the lightspeed Jiwald beams after they were fired, and contextual evidence that this is indeed meant to show off the defensive capabilities of a Sword Saint.

I would also wish to analyze in mechanical terms how deflecting ten simultaneously-launched lasers specifically with chopsticks would be different from merely putting a shield or a sword in front of the person (to cut the lasers themselves rather than to block the trajectory).

 

[Hala00]

out of topic but if I was in Julius's place I would be so salty. This guy with chopsticks...and even taunting issssssss salt inducing

 

[Blanked]

@heinkel nice colours now i am blind. Anyway if that's enough to confirm it just upgrade the dude on FTL reactions with others.

 

[ZERO7772]

Tha freaking colors tho 0_0

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

By the way, this doesn't scale to anyone's Reaction Speed except Reid, Satella, and Reinhard, since the only way any people are managing to land a hit on them is by either them allowing themselves to get hit or be distracted (such as Reid fondling Emilia's breasts and being surprised by her lack of reaction).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That was a long and colorful paragraph there heinkel, i completely agree though reid is FTL, this is pretty obvious.