Light speed Haku (Naruto)

[DuDE01010]

Because it's not just the statement, iirc we visually see Tsunade being harmed by the speed of the jutsu and she's more durable than Haku? If what she said wasn't true than Tsunade would have strolled on through without harm but she didn't and needed to heal the damage.

So it just boils down to the effects of one light speed jutsu vs another lightspeed jutsu.

Mabui's lightspeed jutsu is meant for inanimate objects and will kill someone below the durability of a Raikage due to travelling at light speed

vs

Haku's light speed jutsu, confirmed to be light speed via mirror reflection and databook statements, which doesn't hurt him.

Just because the Eternal transport kills someone travelling at light speed doesn't mean it should also apply to Haku's entirely separate lightspeed jutsu.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with the OP. It only apply to a specific af case anyway.

 

[Damage3245]

I disagree with the OP for the same reason why we have a note on Haku's profile.

I haven't seen any new evidence that would change this.

 

[DuDE01010]

I disagree with the OP for the same reason why we have a note on Haku's profile.

I haven't seen any new evidence that would change this.

As Haku is a member of the Yuki Clan, his proper name should be Yuki Haku. Apparently, he can travel / teleport at light speed using reflections of his mirrors according to the databooks, but it is generally accepted as an obvious hyperbole / outlier

But why is it noted as an outlier when it isn't?

• Naruto and Sasuke do not react to Haku's reflections, only when he physically comes outside of his mirror.
• Mabui's Eternal transportation is an entire different jutsu to Haku.

Why does it need to be an outlier when:

• It doesn't cause any scaling issues
• It's a movement via reflection between mirrors, meaning lightspeed
• And confirmed to be light speed movement twice in the databook.

There doesn't need to be new evidence when the current evidence is already accurate.

 

[TheLastStylebender]

Haku's profile already covers this;

• Kid Sharingan Sasuke was able to react to and perceive his movements and even reach Naruto before Haku, completely undeniable, and pre-Sharingan Sasuke was actually beginning to react to him.
• Sasuke without the Sharingan was initially getting blitzed, even before activating it he was beginning to react and after activating the Sharingan he was both able to react and intercept Haku's attacks.
• Haku literally states he can see Naruto/Sasuke in slow motion because of the speed he travels at via reflection, meaning Haku must have lightspeed reactions and yet Haku was completely incapable of reacting to KN0 Naruto, so this being accepted would make KN0 Naruto lightspeed at the bare minimum and most likely Sasuke as well.

Every single scan you use to justify Sasuke being blitzed is Pre-Sharingan Sasuke, and even that Sasuke was managing to react towards the end.

The anime isn't canon and it was never stated in the manga.

So overall, I disagree, there's no new evidence since the half a dozen other times this was rejected and I think this deserves a discussion rule at this point.

Agree with this

 

[Rocker1189]

I actually agree with OP. I have always thought that Haku should be light speed specifically with his mirrors everything points to him and has stated him to be light speed the fact that we dont allow this for Naruto (with multiple statements) while some other verses get lightspeed out of one statement with also having contradictions is weird. For reasons also stated in OP this would not scale to any but Haku with his mirrors.

Oh also light speed transmission doesnt contradict this it was never stated to be because of the speed that people got hurt, the transmission literally tears things apart while using said movement, the raikage's tough skin protects him from said tearing apart while tsunade healed herself from it.

Edit: was wrong it was indeed because of speed however, the mirrors do not use the same style of movement anyway and are based off of reflection.

 

[shinoahiiragi]

Haku is not Light speed when he's outside of his mirrors or when attacking.

The databook scan you sent literally says, "It's impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement."

 

[Damage3245]

We could expand the note on his profile.

But I think we'd be inviting potential issues if we listed Haku as having straight-up lightspeed movement or reactions, and inevitably get people arguing that everyone else should scale to this too.

I don't think it's a good idea to change his speed statistics.

 

[Purgy]

We could expand the note on his profile.

But I think we'd be inviting potential issues if we listed Haku as having straight-up lightspeed movement or reactions, and inevitably get people arguing that everyone else should scale to this too.

I don't think it's a good idea to change his speed statistics.

It will just be for him reflecting between the ice mirrors, literally only travel speed in that instance.

If people try scaling other characters to it in the future then it just goes back to being an outlier, so I don't see that happening personally.

 

[Rocker1189]

We could expand the note on his profile.

But I think we'd be inviting potential issues if we listed Haku as having straight-up lightspeed movement or reactions, and inevitably get people arguing that everyone else should scale to this too.

I don't think it's a good idea to change his speed statistics.

I disagree, we should clearly state in the note that it does not scale to his reactions and clearly state that it scales to nobody else, being inaccurate just because it can lead to random people trying to upgrade kids to lightspeed is wrong and I would always argue that people like kid sasuke should not scale to him. Further proof of the speed is him using it to blitz kakashi from across the battlefield.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Rocker1189]

Imo the note (which I hate right now btw) should read like this:

While Haku's mirrors allow him to move at lightspeed it should be noted however that he was deliberately holding back against team 7 in his fight as to not actually kill them, therefore this should not scale to anyone else.

 

[Damage3245]

It will just be for him reflecting between the ice mirrors, literally only travel speed in that instance.

If people try scaling other characters to it in the future then it just goes back to being an outlier, so I don't see that happening personally.

If we list it as travel speed only with this technique, that his other speed stats don't scale to it, and that no other character in the manga is scaling to it - then I think it could plausibly be acceptable.

Given how often Haku has had CRTs made for him too, I'd also be up for making a discussion rule to settle the topic and stop repeated scaling arguing in the future.

 

[Rocker1189]

If we list it as travel speed only with this technique, that his other speed stats don't scale to it, and that no other character in the manga is scaling to it - then I think it could plausibly be acceptable.

Given how often Haku has had CRTs made for him too, I'd also be up for making a discussion rule to settle the topic and stop repeated scaling arguing in the future.

Its isnt only travel speed though as he uses it in combat however yes he should get this speed with said technique only and with the note being changed as to why it should not scale to anyone else.

As much as I hate discussion rules making one to not scale it to anyone else is fine I guess.

 

[Purgy]

Wait, why is it combat speed as well?

 

[Rocker1189]

Wait, why is it combat speed as well?

tbh if it does or not doesnt matter uch to me.

 

[DuDE01010]

It will just be for him reflecting between the ice mirrors, literally only travel speed in that instance.

If we list it as travel speed only with this technique, that his other speed stats don't scale to it, and that no other character in the manga is scaling to it - then I think it could plausibly be acceptable.

I mean that was exactly the point in the upgrade. Only Haku would scale while Naruto and Sasuke do not.

Haku's current rating is this:
At least Supersonic (Fought equally against Sasuke and Naruto in the Land of Waves Arc while holding back), possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Intercepted Zabuza’s shuriken with his senbon. As an Edo Tensei, he reacted to and blocked simultaneous attacks from Might Guy and Rock Lee. Defended himself and Zabuza from Sai’s ink birds), higher via ice mirrors (Intercepted a Raikiri from Kakashi during the Fourth Shinobi World War)

His upgraded rating would be this:
At least Supersonic (Fought equally against Sasuke and Naruto in the Land of Waves Arc while holding back), possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Intercepted Zabuza’s shuriken with his senbon. As an Edo Tensei, he reacted to and blocked simultaneous attacks from Might Guy and Rock Lee. Defended himself and Zabuza from Sai’s ink birds), Speed of Light via ice mirrors (Demonic Mirroring Ice Crystals uses the mirror's reflection to transport the user)

 

[Fixxed]

The op is make sense

 

[Planck69]

I actually find myself agreeing with the OP.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I agree with the OP, mostly because even back in part 1 Haku was considered special, even to the point that when he got revived he was still a threat to characters that have long since surpassed their power ceilings of this arc.

Also Comparing the Raikage and Haku Doesn't really work because their form and function are different, Lightspeed is an issue in regards to durability because of the limitations of that Jutsu, Limitations that Haku doesn't have.

However, I should note that because these type of Positions can Often lead to people trying to Inflate characters, we should make it extremely clear on the Profile what is and isn't SOL and that Literally, nobody scales to it.

 

[TheSuperC]

I agree with OP. The wiki isn't unfamiliar with giving a speed calc to a character's single attack on their page. So I see no reason not to do it with a Naruto character.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Seems many people are in agreement with this.

By the way, KMC0 Naruto doesn’t scale to light-speed at all, considering again, Haku got weaker because he refused to kill them.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don’t see an issue with going to the note or to his speed statistics and being like “he reflects between mirrors at lightspeed, this doesn’t scale to his normal statistics” rather than the note saying “it’s hyperbolic”

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with it applying to his speed while reflecting with the mirrors, and it not scaling to anyone else.

It's also pretty consistent with him blitzing Kakashi's Raikiri twice, including in the war arc of all times.

 

[LordTracer]

I agree with it only applying when he’s reflecting as well.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Same as tracer

 

[BlackeJan]

I can’t believe this is actually happening....I remember the good ol days of this being rejected multiple times lol time does fly by

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I can’t believe this is actually happening....I remember the good ol days of this being rejected multiple times lol time does fly by

Same.

Btw, agree with op.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

However, I should note that because these type of Positions can Often lead to people trying to Inflate characters, we should make it extremely clear on the Profile what is and isn't SOL and that Literally, nobody scales to it.

The only person who you could even begin scaling this to is Might Guy & Lee in which Haku moved out of the mirror (which is consistent, as Lee does it twice to him) opposed to when he reflected to hit and blitz Sai, and Kakashi.

 

[BlackeJan]

The only person who you could even begin scaling this to is Might Guy & Lee in which Haku moved out of the mirror (which is consistent, as Lee does it twice to him) opposed to when he reflected to hit and blitz Sai, and Kakashi.

And this is where the problem could arise. The whole point of this is that no one would scale no matter what

 

[Cyberblader90]

lee reacting, even if twice would be an outlier for him in base, given that haku bltized kakashi

 

[Damage3245]

And this is where the problem could arise. The whole point of this is that no one would scale no matter what

Indeed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

And this is where the problem could arise. The whole point of this is that no one would scale no matter what

They already stated Haku’s reflection is light-speed, which no one scales to, which I agreed with. I specifically mentioned a difference between Haku moving and it’s reflection, read my post before quoting me.

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

I agree with the OP.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Also Comparing the Raikage and Haku Doesn't really work because their form and function are different, Lightspeed is an issue in regards to durability because of the limitations of that Jutsu, Limitations that Haku doesn't have.

In my opinion it does work due to the outcome is still the same regardless of the techniques being different but that's just my opinion on that. Regardless, If majority agree with accepting it as different I won't argue with it so long as it doesn't scale to anyone else (which should be apparent)

 

[joshpiece]

In my opinion it does work due to the outcome is still the same regardless of the techniques being different but that's just my opinion on that. Regardless, If majority agree with accepting it as different I won't argue with it so long as it doesn't scale to anyone else (which should be apparent)

^

if we make a discussion rule about not scaling anybody to it then I’ll agree.

 

[Reio35]

I don't agree. The databooks tend to throw around the word LS a lot. They claims itachi is LS twice,Kisame being LS and Bee and rikage being LS. Yet he can barely react to lighting. That being said it's hyperbolic cuz it's shown within the manga main canon that people can't survive the speed of light.

 

[LordTracer]

Yet he can barely react to lighting.

Y’know that was Itachi on his deathbed... and he was still able to react fast enough to put up the Susano’o before Kirin hit him, so...

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I was about to say that Itachi was literally 5 minutes away from dying.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't agree. The databooks tend to throw around the word LS a lot. They claims itachi is LS twice,Kisame being LS and Bee and rikage being LS. Yet he can barely react to lighting. That being said it's hyperbolic cuz it's shown within the manga main canon that people can't survive the speed of light.

Things moving through reflections is lightspeed.
Disregard the databooks and it's still lightspeed. That's science.