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Let's go over MFTL+ Dragon Ball Z

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Considering the statement that outright says how strong they get, frieza vs goku which is all about how much percentage he was using with correlation with the KK, stomps turned to stomps [cell vs gohan, frieza vs goku, vegito vs buuhan, mssj vegeta vs semi imperfect cell, goku vs nappa and vegeta]
Goku vs hit when hit commented on how much goku was getting stronger by the kk, it turned into a stalemate [in a way]
Yeah no, pssssh obviously using in canon statements and multipliers is us wanking the verse, but ys not using them is actually us being accurate to the verse
 
only feats we use from the anime are the moon-beam speed feats since they're one-to-one replicas of the manga feat minus the destruction. Everything else is non-canon filler.
 
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DivineAura44 said:
Crossing Namek before Frieza could plunge his hand into Vegeta's neck. I lowballed by making Namek the size of Earth and using Frieza as bare minimum ftl in his casual 50%.
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Honestly that shouldn't be considered as an outliner especially since the multiplier indicate mftl+ is correct so their is consistency
 
Tho, why are we using movie feat for dbz? Aren't they literally not canon and don't even make sense in the movies themselves? Dbz doesn't have filler since it's not canon
 
Rez said:
Honestly that shouldn't be considered as an outliner especially since the multiplier indicate mftl+ is correct so their is consistency
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No no it's calc stacking, apparently using featz and calculations is wrong
 
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Orange said:
Tho, why are we using movie feat for dbz? Aren't they literally not canon and don't even make sense in the movies themselves? Dbz doesn't have filler since it's not canon
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Movie feats are only used for toei profiles
 
Orange said:
Tho, why are we using movie feat for dbz? Aren't they literally not canon and don't even make sense in the movies themselves? Dbz doesn't have filler since it's not canon
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We don't tho? We only calc'd the speed of Roshi's beam and Piccolo's beam using anime timeframes because those are the only feats that happen in the same exact manner as in the manga, and we do have a rule of allowing anime timeframes to be used for manga feats if they are one-to-one carbon copies of each other or happen very similarly.
 
Ok, since Orange brought it up here, that Dragon Ball catching feat was something I noticed.

Kid Goku absolutely reacted to Dragon Balls movement.

dh1SH6Pl.jpg


And we know Dragon Balls can travel to Earth from Namek.

mnvac.png


We also know that Dragons can be killed, as King Piccolo killed Shenron. We do know Porunga was created by Guru, which at bare minimum Frieza & SSJs should easily scale to.

I tried to calc this, but I wasn't sure what was distance to Namek, if anyone knows it, that'd be great.

Time to take to Namek is 4339 years and 3 months, which for easier calcs is 136 837 296 000 s.

We don't have speeds for Earth's spacecrafts in DBZ, but since that chapter was in 1989 and DBZ Earth is kinda similar to Earth, I used Apollo 10's 11.083 km/s for reference, which is a crewed ship that existed back then.

distance = speed * time
=>11.083 km/s * 136 837 296 000 s = 1 516 567 751 568 km, as distance to Namek.

With this, we can use the time frame of Namekian DB's travel to Earth, and thanks to Frieza, we have generous time frame of 5 minutes (300 s).

speed = distance / time
=> 1 516 567 751 568 km / 300 s = 5 055 225 838,56 km/s = 5 055 225 838 560 m/s aka 16,862.418329 c
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Now, a BIG CAVEAT.

This is potentially hax related, as Dragons can grand wishes. Not to mention Dragon Balls might not be linked to power of Dragons themselves. Also, Kid Goku catching Earth's DBs might not prove SSJ Goku could catch Namekian DBs on move.

Its technically a lowball potentially because I had to assume some things too. I originally wasn't too sure on this feat and discussion on it didn't track on, so if anyone could verify this, does this make sense?
 
KLOL506 said:
We don't tho? We only calc'd the speed of Roshi's beam and Piccolo's beam using anime timeframes because those are the only feats that happen in the same exact manner as in the manga, and we do have a rule of allowing anime timeframes to be used for manga feats if they are one-to-one carbon copies of each other or happen very similarly.
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No, we used broly feat for dbz which is non canon tho-
[Dbz is the name of the a ime, db is the name of the manga, hope it clears something]
 
Rez said:
Don't see how calcing this feat involes calc stacking

main-qimg-9d4ecfcc2c6722841a3efb7efceb7288.jpeg
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We know how fast is frieza, we just got see how much time needed for a mftl character to move about 30 cm, the timeframe is the duration that goku needed to cross the whole distance
[Either use the average human speed, the speed of piccolo's blast, or use the mftl speed of freiza we have]
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Pretty sure the spelling as "Frieza" is based of his Japanese name (フリーザ, Furīza)
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in Brazil, we call it as Freeza
GodlyCharmander said:
New multiplier accepted, the SSJ Multiplier. 50x. Let's go over that.

There are multiple options here.

ten-fold statement
Saiyan Saga Goku was >0.745c, and therefore >2.98c in his Kaioken 4x state. Fine.

Start of Namek Saga, his power and speed were stated to have increased ten-fold, this was stated in the volume summaries, and his PL was also increased over 10x, so it's not inconsistent.

Namek Saga Goku (Pré-Zenkai) was >7.45c, that's >29.8c in his KK4 state.

Post-Zenkai Base Goku was superior to said kaioken form in Power Level, so it's >>29.8c, that's >>298c with his Kaioken 10x, and >>596c with his Kaioken 20x, and now, with the newly accepted 50x multiplier, Goku is >>1490c with his SSJ form, that's MFTL+

Don't like the idea of a summary being used? No problemo


Kaioken wasn't even limited to 4x
Saiyan Saga Goku was >0.745c, and therefore >2.98c in his Kaioken 4x state. Fine.


Namek Saga Pre-Zenkai Goku was >2.98c in base. But you guys would actually use the 4x Kaioken to calculate this Goku's max speed. But that's not the case, Goku stated he would be able to use Kaioken up to 10x even before landing on Namek. He didn't get to use 10x Kaioken before fighting Freeza due to Ginyu's bullshit, so we can't say "well, why didn't he use it then", as he didn't have to.

"Ha, you ding-dong! You lost! He said "I bet", so it's not a fact"
First off, that's obviously exposition foreshadowing the Freeza fight? But aight fam, I gotchu

Here is the raw japanese statement. (It was ungodly difficult to find this for some reason)
Ahem,
"これなら きっと一
10倍ぐらいの
界王拳にだって
たえられるぞ‼"

Which roughly translates to "I'm sure of it. Now my body can withstand even Kaioken x10" from the translations I've seen.
So no, it's not a bet, that's adaptation, you hypothetical moron.

From now on, Kaioken x10 Pré-Zenkai Goku is >29.8c, and it all goes the same as last option, with SSJ Goku standing at 1490c. which is MFTL+

All of the above
Merging both options we have a SSJ Goku clocked at 3700c. It's still MFTL+


Freeza 100%, SSJ Goku, and those after them should be MFTL+, possibly Kaioken x20 Post-Zenkai Goku too, if you pick the last option.
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Anyways I agree with this
 
Rez said:
Don't see how calcing this feat involes calc stacking

main-qimg-9d4ecfcc2c6722841a3efb7efceb7288.jpeg
Click to expand...

This is barely FTL. Light can travel around Earth 7 times in a second. So even if you say Goku took one second to reach the other side and highball the distance to the absolute opposite end of the planet, it would still be much slower than Piccolo's Moon beam, I think.

As for the main topic of this thread, it was already discussed and rejected. No official details about this hypothetical Goku are known, we don't know how well this hypothetical Goku would have fared against Freeza and whether he would still be weaker than his base form after zenkai. We only use kaioken numbers and power levels on things that have been shown. As such, it's best to not use it in the scaling chain.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Even if we assumed he travelled across the planet in the blink of an eye (0.2 seconds), you would only get .33c.

Do you really?
The entire speed chain is based on multiplying Piccolo's moon feat.
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Yeah we do
The lowest you can go is him being as fast as piccolo's blast, that's literally undeniable
Or you can give him his mftl rating
Either we you'll end up with some decent numbers
 
AKM sama said:
This is barely FTL. Light can travel around Earth 7 times in a second. So even if you say Goku took one second to reach the other side and highball the distance to the absolute opposite end of the planet, it would still be much slower than Piccolo's Moon beam, I think.

As for the main topic of this thread, it was already discussed and rejected. No official details about this hypothetical Goku are known, we don't know how well this hypothetical Goku would have fared against Freeza and whether he would still be weaker than his base form after zenkai. We only use kaioken numbers and power levels on things that have been shown. As such, it's best to not use it in the scaling chain.
Click to expand...
No, just calculate how much a mftl character [or relativistic one] to cross the distance of 30~70 ich cm, that the frame is the same that goku needed yo cross either the whole planet or whatever distance, it's usually would be in the kms either way
 
Orange said:
No, just calculate how much a mftl character [or relativistic one] to cross the distance of 30~70 ich cm, that the frame is the same that goku needed yo cross either the whole planet or whatever distance, it's usually would be in the kms either way
Click to expand...
I mean wouldn't this contradict Goku and Frieza being comparable to each other in this instance?
 
Oh really
And? We know how fast he is, we just take the distance, the timeframe needed to cross it, apply it to goku
Why is bad?
 
Orange said:
No not really, goku's speed will just get applied to frieza, he was using much force against him later on anyway
Click to expand...
That is the problem though...
You can't calculate internal feats among two comparable characters and declare one as faster than other using calcs like that. And then apply the same calc to ""slower"" character. Thats....disingenuous.
You could end up doing this process ad-infinitum .....thats calc stacking.

You need some external feat for characters to scale to.
 
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