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Let's go over MFTL+ Dragon Ball Z

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Even Kaioken x10 Is Massively FTL territory based on the current chains. Heck, even if we ignored Goku compared Captain Ginyu and the like to Kaioken x4 Saiyan saga Goku ignoring that Goku is much faster even in base while still being capable of going Kaioken x4 and also showed Kaioken x2 that terrified Ginyu but was considered nothing compared to 1st form Frieza. The end result would still make SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza both Massively FTL. I was the one who did the math 100% step by step, no burden of proof and ensuring each and every corner was dug up. Even Antvasima agreed 100% that the analysis me and KLOL had is very on point. And Ryukama actually thinks the opposite, that we're too strict with Dragon Ball.
 
Well I'm sure Frieza Freezes inside the Freezer but the neutrality of the cold expierience requires me to chill out!

I'm neutral.
 
Welp, I believe the original intentions were to discuss if the reasoning to slightly change the chain was valid or not. The ten-fold statement was ultimately rejected, but what about Pré-Zenkai Goku flat out stating he could use Kaioken x10? Can we focus on that, because the validity of said multipliers is really not what we should be arguing.
 
What the hell do I mean "I believe", I was the one who made the original post-
Yeah, so, let's focus on the argument instead.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Welp, I believe the original intentions were to discuss if the reasoning to slightly change the chain was valid or not. The ten-fold statement was ultimately rejected, but what about Pré-Zenkai Goku flat out stating he could use Kaioken x10? Can we focus on that, because the validity of said multipliers is really not what we should be arguing.
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I believe it may be used, I dunno though, we should move on with this cool party during the Ice age however!
 
Goku only imagined that he might have been capable of going Kaioken x9 or 10 while he was on the ship. He wasn't 100% certain and never really tried it until the battle with Frieza. All he did demonstrate however is that Kaioken x2 was nothing compared to what he was capable of. But even sensing Frieza's power. And the, "His power multiplied tenfold" still invoked skepticism.

Anyway, should have gone to sleep about an hour ago, so I better do that now.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Goku only imagined that he might have been capable of going Kaioken x9 or 10 while he was on the ship. He wasn't 100% certain and never really tried it until the battle with Frieza. All he did demonstrate however is that Kaioken x2 was nothing compared to what he was capable of. But even sensing Frieza's power. And the, "His power multiplied tenfold" still invoked skepticism.
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That's clearly exposition, it's a character talking to himself in the middle of space. Goku didn't think, he said he was sure of it.
Statement = Valid, unless proven wrong.
Why would Akira make Goku have a false statement if he didn't prove the character wrong?

Goku massively outscales his own version who could handle 4x Kaioken without dying.

"All he did demonstrate however is that Kaioken x2 was nothing compared to what he was capable of. "
He didn't have to go beyond x2 to fight Ginyu, and he didn't have the opportunity to use anything else as he had his body stolen. Not a fair point whatsoever.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
I dunno....wasn't it decided on that DBS Gohan and Parasite MFTL thread??
The feat was rejected but I remember SSJRyu and Ant going back and forth over that topic and coming to some sort of truce.

But my memory is sketchy now.

So why isn't filler of DBZ canon to DBZ?
Any good reason?
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Because:
You see, there is the toie timeline which is non canon, dbz is the name of the anime, the manga [all of it until super] is called db. So DB is the canon [manga] DBZ is the non canon [anime]
 
AKM sama said:
A lot of strawman there.

I never said to discard all the multipliers. I never said I didn't like multipliers. I never said to consider a kaioken x4 a x2 just for the hell of it. I never said kaioken multiplers are not legit.

And I have already explained why I disagree with the current state of profiles plenty of times. The higher the multiplier, the greater is the burden of proof. Going from 0.7c to 3c based on multipliers, sure. No big deal. Small jump, believable, doesn't require extraordinary evidence. From there to 30c, okay. A bit bigger jump but can be explained with the constant rise in power level. To 90c, also fine, no biggie.

But when you claim that your character is 500c or something from a 0.7c feat, that is a massive jump and your burden of proof increases with it proportionally. With no feat coming close to this level in the show, and the next best feat is 0.7c, you can't really claim that your character is 500c based on multiplier stacking alone. That's not enough backing.

Also, the mentality of "either use it or don't use it" is extremely flawed and leads to extreme ends. You're basically saying that we should either go for extreme wank or extreme downplay, when you can just... apply common sense and logic and know when to stop because your numbers don't have sufficient backing.

Several people, including staff, have expressed their disapproval of the state of DB's speed. And I plan to address the issue when I get time. Until then, that's all I'll speak on the topic.
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Common sense is applying accepted multipliers in verse
Not cannon sense is choosing to discard them because "much high" I guess tier 0 verses should get get banned ammirite-
 
Orange said:
Didn't kid goku catch a dragon ball once it got departed?
Goku and frieza reacting to a namekain db gettin departed?
We can calc these two no?
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It would be virtually impossible to accurately calculate the speed of Dragon Ball dispersal since the Dragon Balls travel to random locations—it's like literally trying to find a needle in a haystack.
DivineAura44 said:
It's an actual feat. It's just considering an outlier. (Because obviously.)
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The Buu one? I'm pretty sure most people agreed Babidi (or his daddy; can't remember which one) used a spaceship to get around.
DivineAura44 said:
To be fair there was Akira himself saying that filler could be used as canon so take it as you will.
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source?
Orange said:
He considers the time and manga to be both db
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That does not mean what you think it means.
 
Orange said:
Because:
You see, there is the toie timeline which is non canon, dbz is the name of the anime, the manga [all of it until super] is called db. So DB is the canon [manga] DBZ is the non canon [anime]
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Yeah..I know that.
I am asking if DBZ anime is its own thing.....why shouldn't filler be used for its own anime's scaling?
 
Orange said:
Not cannon sense is choosing to discard them because "much high" I guess tier 0 verses should get get banned ammirite-
Click to expand...
However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.
Click to expand...
 
DivineAura44 said:
Crossing Namek before Frieza could plunge his hand into Vegeta's neck. I lowballed by making Namek the size of Earth and using Frieza as bare minimum ftl in his casual 50%.
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There is vegeta blowing up a planet or a star in cell saga with his final flash [i dunno if it's in the manga]
Tho we can calcutae goku swatting away frieza's beams [by using our speed tiering of him] then see where it could lead us
 
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