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Legend of Zelda Upgrades: Part 2

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@Lina

"Where in the calculations and the calculation guide pages does it state that rule? Scaling objects, such as lightning and bullets from the background in cutscenes as well as during gameplay are considered to be fair game."

You seem to be missing the idea that the background has to move and be active in some way. If it looks frozen, it makes the developers look really lazy.
 
"Or heck. Even all the times Solar Flare worked. And if you don't like my DB example, then how about all the times when lightning was shown to be a ton faster than Mario characters? Or FF characters?"

Solar Flare works by burning your eyes, it'd be independent of speed because just looking at it would hurt, even if you're faster than the light itself. Mind showing the examples with Mario? I can only remember 2 or 3 instances off the top of my head. We have FF characters at Hypersonic anyway, because they were very slow compared to the lightning.
 
Hmm. I am very uncertain how we should handle this issue now. LordXcano and Lina do make good arguments.
 
I have asked Kavpeny for input, but he is usually far too busy to handle regular content revision threads.
 
Anyway, I suppose that I am leaning towards Lina's interpretation now.
 
There are other verses in which only one feat is enough to scale people even if it is a huge boost for them. And in fiction, being MFTL and being struck by lightning happens (hell, being MFTL in real life is impossible). I think they are being too scientifically correct here.

If fights were meant to happen at the speed we rate the characters, for example, Frieza vs Ssj Goku's fight would have ended long before any lightning had time to reach ground.
 
That is also a good point.
 
I'm going to support Lina and Xcano's suggestion, if was said that those are light arrows, but their speed aren't that different to other arrows, so the most likely is that they are empowered by light, we also talk about a magic franchise were magic empowered by light is pretty common. I wouldn't say that electricity has a constant speed, could varie with the current intensity, but if was lightning what was dodged, you coud use a low-end. Sorry if I can't say more but I don't known much about LoZ.
 
Weighing in on some of the topics of the thread...

  • On the subject of Light Arrows, I would like more evidence of them acting like light to take them as full-on lightspeed. If not, it is likely best to not use them.
  • I'm not buying the comparison of SS Link and Demise to background lightning. In fact, in the same video Demise appears to use lightning from the sky as an attack, which Link can react to. If we are assuming the lightning in the background is real lightning, there's not much reason for this to be different.
  • If BotW Link fights Thunderblight Ganon and isn't constantly blitzed to all hell, he scales. Even if TG is clearly faster, it's not by such an overwhelming amount that it's impossible for Link to fight back. This is how we always handle these sorts of things.
  • I have no opinion on the Onox thing, as I haven't played OoS in around a decade, so I barely remember anything about context and anything else Onox does throughout.
 
I think that Azathoth makes sense.
 
in the same video Demise appears to use lightning from the sky as an attack, which Link can react to.

A calculation is required to see what Link's actual speed is in comparison to lightning in that case.

It is inaccurate automatically give a character the same speed as a projectile just because they reacted to said projectile (In this case: Demise' cloud-to-ground lightning)

The feat that you are referring to was shown in the video for Demise vs Link, correct?
 
Personally, I too question the Light arrows being lightspeed and leaning towards the FTL ratings being removed. But I still support them being at least MHS until a legit calc is done, and if it looks all right.
 
So, is it agreed to adjust their ratings from FTL to MHS+ instead?
 
Except that there is no basis for Massively Hypersonic+ speed because that Onox calc that resulted in MHS+ is flawed. Onox just appeared to the screen out of nowhere, and didn't actually outpace said lightning bolt, at all.

Just go with whatever highest speed calc Josh has for speed.
 
Okay, so Massively Hypersonic Legend of Zelda, in lack of better available options then?
 
Is anybody willing to perform the edits?
 
@Freeman: Show me a cutscene of anyone in LoZ reacting/dodging a flash of light after it has been fired.

Otherwise, the changes will be made.
 
For thoroughness's sake, was it agreed upon that the cutscene with Ordona truly had nothing of use? Is there nothing we can glean from the Light Spirits' being able to manipulate light in a fashion that is dangerous to creatures of shadow, yet being overwhelmed by shadowy forces? I don't know if the cutscene itself has anything conclusive, but surely the matter of a race made of light being able to manipulate light should be given some sense of finality. In the last thread, the subject just got changed before any conclusion was reached, positive or negative. Better to settle it now than later.
 
Dr. Light has been overwhelmed by Batman before and Spider-Man has fought nearly on par with the Living Laser. Neither prove that either of those characters are lightspeed though, as it's very likely they aimdodged.

In this case, we don't even see the fight. We have no idea what went on. Assuming that they're FTL over something that happened off-screen is extremely iffy.
 
So, the conclusion is thus: the Light Spirits may or may not attack at lightspeed and we don't see anything dodge the light onscreen. As long as there is a consensus that addresses everything, I'm ok with a conclusion. I hope to find something of interest as I replay the games in the near future, but for the time being, it seems everything brought up here has been addressed to some degree.

EDIT: Well, actually before this thread is closed, we have to come to terms with the notion that light from the Light Spirits has consistently proven to be deadly to shadow creatures, yet the forces of light still can't keep up despite a major advantage. The only way to reconcile the facts is to say that the Shadow Beasts could outpace light. Should we be willing to disregard this entirely?
 
@Freeman

You're making a false dichotomy. You're assuming that because the Shadow Beasts beat the Light Spirits despite their advantage, the only possible explanation must be that the Shadow Beasts are faster than the speed of light. When it could be that:

  • The Light Spirit can only fire in one direction at a time, so it only got 1 or 2 before the rest killed it
  • The Light Spirit can manipulate light but not react at the speed of light, so the Shadow Beasts simply blitzed it
  • The Light Spirit doesn't have infallible aim and maybe missed a Shadow Beast
  • A Shadow Beast could've come from behind, we don't know because we don't see what happens
  • The Shadow Beasts could've aimdodged the Light Spirit
 
IF they can move in speeds comparable to the light, they will be close to Lightspeed. This is basic, and isn't dismissable.
 
@Matt

Yeah, obviously. The problem is that we don't see the feat. We see the Beasts walk into the "arena", the camera cuts, there's a flash of light and a scream, and then Twilight takes over.
 
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