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Legend of Zelda: Assorted Speed Buffs and Nerfs?

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That small opening is the only place on screen linked to faron spring. We see light blasted out of it at every angle. It's not Faron using a big AOE attack. It's simply Faron being defeated.
 
@Xcano

But they still manage to steal he's light. Oh, and BTW, that scream isn't Ordona's. In that same scene, he's voice is deep. That scream is one of the Twilight creatures, so Ordona did managed to hit atleast one, while the others stole he's light. How could they do that if not by dodging said light? You know they can still jump, right? The light doesn't go hundreds of meters into the air. They dodge that first attack, then stole it's light. And then we have the other instances with the Light Spirits. Ordona wasn't the only one with it's light stolen. And we know for a fact the Light Spirits, or atleast one of them, attacks whoever enters there domain uninvited (Lanayru).

Edit: Lasatar, that I can actually see as true. But to say he didn't do a thing...
 
Also, why are you assuming that Shadow Beasts are fodder? They're hyped up to be the most threatening of twilight creatures aside from Zant and Midna, and are the strongest things that aren't bosses or mini bosses.
 
"The light doesn't go hundreds of meters into the air."

Light, moving at the speed of light, would go into the atmosphere instantly.

"That scream is one of the Twilight creatures, so Ordona did managed to hit atleast one, while the others stole he's light."

Alright, so it wasn't an omni-directional blast. So I can just as easily say that he missed as you can say that he dodged.

"They dodge that first attack"

How do you know it didn't miss? How do you know they didn't aimdodge?

The thing is, you're making a lot of assumptions here without anything to back them up. I can say the Shadow Beasts warped into another dimension temporarily and you couldn't prove me wrong because it all happens off-screen. So why are we assuming they dodged when there's any number of other explanations?
 
BECuase all of the ones your suggesting would be downplay while we'd easily accept it for most other verses. That's why.
 
@Cal

James Bond goes into an alley. The camera cuts. Two shots are fired. The camera cuts back, James Bond has a corpse at his feet. You're telling me you'd assume James Bond dodged a bullet?
 
@Xcano

Then my lantern is damaged or broken.

Then it comes as what scenario is the more likely. And I don't think that a being that is part of the...other...beings, lol, that sealed the Twili's ancestor could just miss (said ancestors becoming so much powerful that the goddesses themselves needed to call the Light Spirits), specially when having them up-close.

About the aim dodge I could see it as happening, but when one was hitted and the other miraculously happen to do aim-dodge, it becomes sketchy.
 
I think its clear that the Shadow Beasts didn't dodge. Even if the scream was from a shadow beast and not Faron (for which the latter is far more likely), it was still only one scream. There were three shadow beasts. Even if Faron blasted one and it died, the other two still managed to defeat Faron and steal its light. There was no dodging involved.
 
@Lephyr

"Then my lantern is damaged or broken."

There is a difference between how far you can see light go and how far it is actually going. You won't see a flashlight on the Moon but it most definitely hit.

"About the aim dodge I could see it as happening, but when one was hitted and the other miraculously happen to do aim-dodge, it becomes sketchy."

How so? That just means 1 got unlucky.
 
"For which the latter is far more likely"

Actually, is the opposite. When Zant always shows up, and even, the scene where he storms the casttle, there is always that highpitched scream. Meaning that is more likely to come from a Shadow Beasts.

"They defeated Faron, but didn't dodge it's attack in the process"...how...?
 
@Lephyr

"They defeated Faron, but didn't dodge it's attack in the process"...how...?"

As said before, aimdodging is always possible. Or missing. Or anything. I can defeat Mike Tyson without dodging any of his hits by just shooting him.
 
@Xcano

That's called intensity, and as we see in the game, you need a really big one to damage the Beasts with Light.

I know you want to show how is more speculative than anything, but again... Which is truly more likely?
 
Faron only attacked once (if at all). Seeing as it was confirmed that the attack wasn't omnidirectional, it could only have hit a maxiumum of one shadow beast.
 
@Lephyr

"That's called intensity, and as we see in the game, you need a really big one to damage the Beasts with Light."

This backs me up. Your point was that the light wouldn't go 100s of meters up, I said it would. Either way, this part of the argument is irrelevant now as we've moved on.

"I know you want to show how is more speculative than anything, but again... Which is truly more likely?"

I'd say aimdodging is. If I saw footage of someone going into an alleyway, a giant laser going by, and then that person walking out unscathed, I would probably assume they just aimdodged/missed rather than that someone is faster than the speed of light.
 
@Lasatar

I actually was going with the omnidirectional explanation, but ok. And seeing how they were positioned in the video... No.
 
I really don't understand what's even being argued anymore. As far as I know, three shadow beasts strolled up to Faron and casually defeated it with no resistance. Other people start arguing "Faron fought back", despite there being no evidence of this actually happening. I try and compensate for those arguments. Sooner or later the whole thing turns into a nest of contradictions.
 
Wow. You really like underestimating aim, don't you... How often do people actually miss in fiction where it's superpowered beings? And don't give me stuff about BoS characters who don't know how to use their powers, or stuff explicitly stated to be non-accurate.
 
@Cal

As Lasatar said, either way there is no evidence they dodged and no evidence they aimdodged. It all happened off-screen. But, given that there is a chance that they aimdodged there's no reason to go with a high-end interpretation that's way above every other feat in the series, just as I wouldn't assume James Bond dodged a bullet offscreen.

Nothing can really be concluded from this, it's an unusable feat.
 
You completely ignored what I said above. James Bond is a normal human. Skilled, but normal human. There is no way in hell that he's dodging a bullet. This however, is using light spirits who came into existence through gods versus unholy monsters of twilight. Your analogy holds no water.

Funny enough, someone from YGOTAS would have a great analogy from your logic. Rafael states that Yugi could've been evil or could've been good, and just assumes the worse. It's played for a joke due to its ridiculousness.
 
@Cal

"Unholy monster" is just a title. Without the feats to back it up there's no reason I'd assume it's any stronger or faster than you or I. Either way, you're assuming the highest possible interpretation of a feat we don't even see for no good reason.

Neither the Light Spirits or Shadow Beasts have any feats suggesting they're good at aiming or dodging, they are both complete variables.
 
Ah. So you're looking for feats. All gods of destruction barring Beerus and Champa are human level now. Yay.

Ugh. Why am I such a dick now? The Avatar thread really screwed me up...
 
@Cal

Ignoring the fact that in order to be a God of Destruction you have to be one of the most destructive people in the entire universe, we have even Super Shenro at just "Unknown, likely Universal" because he lacks feats. We don't even have profiles for the other GoDs.
 
Well, I love the Legend of Zelda franchise, so I am sorry to say this, but I agree with Lina in the respect that LordXcano seems to have better arguments. We do have a Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats page for a good reason.
 
We also have Lifebringer Galactus at Unknown even though we know he's around High 1-B. Analogy doesn't hold up, because Super Shenron fits into that category. And again, with your logic, how do we know that most universes aren't stupidly weak?
 
We don't know enough about Lifebringer Galactus, or the nature of the new Marvel multiverse, to say either way actually, and according to the previews, in an upcoming issue Galactus will even have trouble handling Ego the Living Planet.
 
Well I mean I guess we don't know that most universes aren't just stupidly weak. But we're off-topic.
 
True. Let's return to the issue of The Legend of Zelda.
 
I am in agreement with all of Howard's points.

We cannot use the argument that "We don't know, so it might be weak". Period, we can't.

If we don't know, we don't know. Assuming everything is as weak as possible is as intellectually dishonest as assuming it is as powerful as possible.

So yes, we have no reason to assume that a "Unholy monster" isn't an "unholy monster".
 
Looking over all the feats, I see no evidence that it is aim-dodging. What Xcano is doing is abusing the lack of absolute, 100% explict and certain evidence and disguising it as a lack of evidence, and then assuming a lower result.

Both as an appeal to a notion that lower-ends are invariably more acceptable and logical that high-ends.

Of course, that has no basis whatsoever. We go with what's most apparent, and consistently shown, and as multiple people in this thread have shown, Lightspeed Light Arrows are a repeated description across the franchise, and the feats related to the Light Spirits only serve to further back it.
 
Well, I was referring to his argument regarding the Light Spirits seeming unreliable according to our standard conventions.
 
would a sentient being made of pure light be lightspeed? Most probably, yes.

Was this sentient being of light blitzed? Yes. by who? Someone whose speed is unknown as he lacks feats. Can this only feat be enough to rate him? Yeah, why not. Who does scale to him? Almost everyone and their relatives.

I'd say that id other verses can get the same treatment (looking at you OP), why not tloz.
 
@Matt

And going with the highest possible interpretation isn't any more dishonest why? Either way you're making an assumption based on something off-screen and unknonw just to fit a viewpoint.

@PaChi2

We already agreed the Light Spirits weren't made of light and that they instead just controlled it and embodied their surrounding land. Right now it's about the Shadow Beats v. Ordona, but the thread may/may not have concluded anyway.
 
@Xcano

We agreed? What? No, you haven't given a single convincing argument of why they aren't made of light. Everything points to the opposite. The only argument you're using is that they're magical beings and there light can be stolen. So a magical being can't be made of light now? The light stolen is weak.
 
The problem is that the Zelda series has moments of inconsistency that can cause problems, the series has several magical beings that can be used as an excuse to assume that most creatures with superhuman characteristics are magical beings, this is not correct as the series showed the existance of non-magical beings, as well the ones empowered by artifacts like Link. Onox being slower than Link in battle is only game mechanic because Link has never showed impressive feats power and speed wise and is scaled to the beings that performed important feats because he is the bearer of the Triforce of Courage and can fight Ganondorf, even through he was shown to be slower than Epona and damaged by bubbles [In Zelda 2] in game.
 
@Lephy

Well there's also the fact that there was no statement saying they're made of light to begin with. Just statements that they use the power of light.
 
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