League of Legends Discussion Thread

[RegisNex1232]

He looks nearly as tall as a skyscraper though, but that may just be the perspective.

That's what I meant to say, due to perspective he should be the size of a building, possibly the Demacian Palace/Hall of Valor otherwise Lux and the Demacian soldier would have to be on clouds as he doesn't seem to be that far (just behind the ruins of a building). This could also hint at a possible Demacia event/story depending on what the Galio lore says.

 

[RegisNex1232]

From gargoyle to colossus, here are the new and updated details of the Galio rework: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/champion-galio-the-colossus

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I made tentative changes to Dark Star Varus.


Also, I want you to examine this quote:

"No weapon in any reality can harm us."

Can this mean that Dark Stars are immune to any weapon or magic in League of Legends' own setting?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If Varus helped destroy the Void wouldnt that make hin High 3-A?

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I wasn't sure what rating it would fit (3-A, High 3-A, Low 2-C) so I just made it likely higher for now.

You can change it to a more appropriate tier.

Shall we remove the galaxy rating then and make him 'likely Low 2-C', by scaling from Thresh?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Galio's updated bio and short story called 'A Hero Wakes': http://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/champion/galio/

Also features the origin story of Demacia as a whole.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Galio's creator said Galio can absorb the magic of World Runes.


from Reav3 sent 8 hours ago

He would. Demacia was founded in that region because its anti-magic properties protected them during the rune wars. So Galio could indeed protect against world runes. Ryze is friends with a lot of people that are ancient like him.


According to Galio's Champion Update, his passive and abilities get stronger the more magic he absorbs in the game (his punch scales with his magic resist, his CC duration is increased, etc). It's also mentioned multiple times in his bio, and the story ends with saying that Galio's greatest hope is to absorb very powerful magic that is gone now centuries after the Rune Wars.


Should we scale him to World Runes then?

Also it implies that other factions (Noxus, Freljord, Shurima, etc) should have had something else on par with World Runes to survive.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

0_0 Island level Galio, i can dig it

Edit: Where does he say that? The link you posted just leads to his message wall.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I'd rather use the feats given in his bio and short story than interactions which may be possible but never occurs. That as well as the fact that we don't know how much of the magical energy absorbed goes into animating him and how much of it he can release in his attacks.

Also, a while back a reddit poster made a series of posts about how they felt the current champions stack up against each other using current lore. He made 5 tiers called God, Transcended, Harbinger, Magus and Mortal and sorted them according to it.


God Tier: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5v6y2q/lore_power_levels_day_one_the_god_tier/


Transcended Tier: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5vepgn/lore_power_levels_day_two_transcended_tier/


Harbinger Tier: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...re_power_levels_day_three_the_harbinger_tier/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle..._power_level_and_analysis_galio_the_colossus/


Magus Tier: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5vt7uq/lore_power_levels_day_four_magus_tier/


Mortal Tier: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5vzbzu/lore_power_levels_day_five_the_mortal_tier/


While we use a different system to rate characters, I feel it seems pretty accurate given it takes into account the current lore. Any opinions on this?

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

0_0 Island level Galio, i can dig it
Edit: Where does he say that? The link you posted just leads to his message wall.

It's private convo so I also have to delete the message here afterwards. However, I can post a screenshot. It's only to inform you.


I think it is safe to use WR as an upper-cap of the maximum magic Galio can contend with; for example, he can fight another mage who wields Island level of power.


We also have WR rating for Ryze, even though in main canon he is unlikely to use them within his own setting, due to the nature of cross-setting VS. The reason for WR ratings is to make World Runes available for VS involving Runeterran combatants (via Champions).


For example, Characters like Emiya and EMIYA regularly summon weapons during VS that they have actually never used in canon. That is how they are given ratings far above their base stats.


Otherwise, World Rune is a capability that is clearly available for Runeterra, that has been repeatedly used for war, but never gets used in VS battles. We need to introduce them to the VS scene one way or another in any case.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well, reason i asked for a link to the statement is we kinda need some form of proof that he said it instead of just writing that he said it without a link to prove it.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I think it is safe to use WR as an upper-cap of the maximum magic Galio can contend with; for example, he can fight another mage who wields Island level of power.

Which mage?

I have no problems with using WRs as a cap for a bloodlusted Ryze, what I object to is using that as a cap for other champs, especially when we have no canon interactions between them. I'd prefer individual feats and scaling via canon interactions, rather what we have right now, which has led to Tier 6 Ascendants, Jax, Wukong and so on.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I think it is safe to use WR as an upper-cap of the maximum magic Galio can contend with; for example, he can fight another mage who wields Island level of power.

Which mage?
I have no problems with using WRs as a cap for a bloodlusted Ryze, what I object to is using that as a cap for other champs, especially when we have no canon interactions between them. I'd prefer individual feats and scaling via canon interactions, rather what we have right now, which has led to Tier 6 Ascendants, Jax, Wukong and so on.

Ryze's bio shows multiple mages using the World Rune as a single person.

Tyrus and Yago are mentioned by name. Yago is the village chief of a 92-people village.

They are Island level mages while using World Runes, and someone Galio can handle.

Power-scaling by WoG has been accepted in other verses without problem even if they don't have 'canon' interactions. Comparing current characters to their ancestors centuries ago who they can't meet have been done.

in addition, it's just a matter of asking again whether Galio or Demacia had encountered any mage who used World Runes over the course of their warfare (which Reav3 tentatively answered yes, because Galio and Demacia's walls have been purpose-built to counter them. The Kingdom's arcane military is built upon the experience of the Rune Wars). Any mage of various power can use it, most of its users were unnamed and they were widespread.


And the arguments for those characters and Galio are not the same here. Galio is WoG by its creator (Galio = World Rune). The rest do not have such statements yet.


We can just add '6-C after absorbing magic' rather than remove the lower limit.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Still pure speculation that Galio has encountered WR mages, especially given his history of going centuries without fighting as he needs a source of magical energy to function. So unless Riot gives us a story about it, no point in using it in scaling since we don't know if it happened.

There's also the fact that Galio himself hasn't shown destruction on that scale so trying to justify 6-C stats seems like power inflating. Generally when characters are scaled by people like us on this website, feats come first, followed by scaling via interactions. You can't scale say Lux to LeBlanc unless we get a scene of them fighting and they seem even/uneven.

Overall, I'd personally like to wait for more Galio feats/WoG statements before scaling him to WRs as we don't know the specifics, only that he 'could' absorb them.

I'd also like to discuss the outdated/inflated stats of other champs like the Ascendants, Jax and such as I feel they should be revised. If I have to make a thread for it, let me know.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Galio's creator flat out states that he is purpose-built to fight magic of World Rune scale. This is not speculation. This was said specifically. Do we ignore this, then?

 

[DerpCity]

If WoG states he can take on World Rune users, I think a Possibly 6-C could be put on his profile.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except that such ratings would only apply to his absorption of magical energy and not his actual AP/DC/Durability since again, he has no feats on that level. He's just a hard counter to most magical users in Runeterra due to being made of magic-absorbing petricite. So any scaling which involves his AP/DC/Durability would be impossible as he doesn't exactly tank magical attacks but absorbs the energy in them to leave them useless against him. He also hasn't shown any physical feats on that level and neither have any WRs users like Ryze and such.

AKA, AP/DC/Durability stats based on his own feats, with caveat that he can absorb/tank up to 6-C level of magical attacks due to being made of petricite which is anti-magic material in LoL.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

In Ryze's bio, it is specifically mentioned that Tyrus and his rune scroll both survived the annihilation of Icathia by the World Rune at its epicenter unscathed.

Obviously it's the artifact's power, not their own, so Tyrus and Ryze have much weaker stats without the WR boost being applied. They have two stats for this.

Likewise there is nothing that prevents Galio from having multiple stats. Low 7-C without any scaling, 6-C with WR boost as his upper limit.

Let's take the reverse approach. We pit 6-C Tyrus or Yago against Low 7-C Galio. If we follow your suggestion, there's no way for Galio to avoid being one-shotted. Galio's creator disagrees; he'll defeat any non-champion World Rune mage any time as part of narrative.

Having Island level AP does not mean he 'busts' an Island (which in itself can have variable APs). It means he can fight someone with Island level or lower powers. Also, this is not every time; it's conditional.

The alternative is that, again, we have only one stat and 10,000 Galios cannot defeat mundane wizards like Yago. Which is false.

The issue is simple; we have to have the 'Galio = World Rune' word of god by his creator accounted for nonetheless. Somehow in some fashion. We can't ignore it.

Simplest solution is having two stats.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

I agree with the possibly 6-C rating here.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Except that Tyrus' survival at the epicenter of the WRs is never once hinted at, only that he used them and was still alive when Ryze got there. We can speculate about how the WRs were used but nothing says that Tyrus was in the middle of the blast when it occured, only that he caused it. So no, WR-boosted mages like Tyrus/bloodlusted Ryze don't have 6-C durability (shown in his profile page here). The relevant passage is below:

"Ryze was on one such menial errand when he received word of a new cataclysm, this time to the southwest of Valoran, in Icathia. The mage rushed to the scene of the devastation, beset with concern for his master and friend, hoping that he had survived. Upon his arrival, Ryze was elated to find that Tyrus was indeed safe. But Ryze's relief was short-lived. Next to the scroll he had never been allowed to read, sat two World Runes.

The older mage explained that once the World Runes were in play, he had no choice but to use them himself. Ryze was horrified as he realized Tyrus had not just survived the disaster, he had caused it. He continued his bitter tirade, telling his student that humanity was a reckless child, playing with power it did not understand. Tyrus could no longer play the role of diplomat for ignorant power-mongers. He had to stop them."


Secondly, you seem to have misunderstood my points about Galio so I'll just clarify: Galio's magic absorption/nullification due to being made of petricite is more of a hax power than a raw durability stat. So in your example, he could in fact beat the 6-C Tyrus only if Tyrus' durability isn't equal to his AP/DC and that his magic absorption can allow him to absorb attacks of that level. The WoG states that Galio could protect people from WRs, clearly linked to his magic absorption. Nothing suggests that he could facetank a physical attack on the same level, in fact we have weaker attacks breaking off parts of his crown.

So the only way to put in the 6-C rating would be in his Durability section like this: Low 7-C physically, can absorb 6-C magical attacks due to innate properties of the material used in his construction. He has no feats of taking 6-C physical attacks or dealing them out, best we can do is possibly calc the KE of his ultimate.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

"Tyrus had not just survived the disaster"

"Next to the scroll he had never been allowed to read, sat two World Runes"

You may interpret it that way but the first thing that comes to mind when reading these is that Tyrus was at the source of the explosion. In the village battle Yago would have killed Ryze, who was a few meters away from him, without killing himself as well (you may argue that Yago was being suicidal, but I choose to doubt it. Let's agree to disagree).


I agree with having two stats. Low 7-C physically, 6-C against magic is the most straightforward way to resolve this. And in fact I doubt that in communities other than VSbattles Galio would be used against a non-magical opponent; Galio has zero combat capability against purely physical combatants, he cannot move.

There are Skin Galios that fight in a purely conventional setting (Galio vs real world militaries for example), like Commando Galio, who are more appropriate for such settings. However they also have different durability and attack ratings (and probably not needed here since VSBattles does not have army vs individual character type of threads).

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah i can agree to Low 7-C Physically, 6-C against magic

 

[RegisNex1232]

Yeah i can agree to Low 7-C Physically, 6-C against magic

Only in terms of Durability, since his physical attacks and such don't get any stronger the more magic he absorbs. In AP/DC, he's still 7-C as he's shown no 6-C feats.

@Heinkel Astrea, all we know is that he caused the explosion, we have no idea how exactly the WRs work and whether the energy from the WRs is spread out everywhere (including at the user), or if the user can direct the energy away from themselves. Since it's all speculation, there's no real proof of giving WR users 6-C durability. Unless we get a proper fight or statement that WR users can take such attacks (whether physically or with magical shields).

Apart from that, I do agree with you that 2 keys are needed, it is just that I'd want them in the Durability section only for Galio, due to lack of proof for AP/DC section.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Yeah i can agree to Low 7-C Physically, 6-C against magic

Only in terms of Durability, since his physical attacks and such don't get any stronger the more magic he absorbs. In AP/DC, he's still 7-C as he's shown no 6-C feats.
@Heinkel Astrea, all we know is that he caused the explosion, we have no idea how exactly the WRs work and whether the energy from the WRs is spread out everywhere (including at the user), or if the user can direct the energy away from themselves. Since it's all speculation, there's no real proof of giving WR users 6-C durability. Unless we get a proper fight or statement that WR users can take such attacks (whether physically or with magical shields).

Apart from that, I do agree with you that 2 keys are needed, it is just that I'd want them in the Durability section only for Galio, due to lack of proof for AP/DC section.

The problem with your suggestion of not giving him a straight 6-C tier is that, in the revised Durability system in VSBattles, 99% of wizards simply and automatically get Durabilities equal to their AP. This is the case even if you are right about Tyrus.

This problem is a technical one and just an artifact of how VSBattles profile works. He has to have 6-C in his opening profile against magical opponents or he is never scratching Tier 7 casters and magicians in Nasuverse, AgK, etc.

He is a Tier 6 character under those circumstance. That is what needs highest visibility in his profile.

 

[RegisNex1232]

The only problem with that is that he hasn't shown such level of attacks, even against mages. That pretty much dents any chance of getting 6-C ratings in his AP/DC section. Along with the fact that we have no concrete idea on how durable WR mages are (given that we don't know how WRs are used by people, if it increases overall stats or only the amount of magical power they can use) means that we can't give that rating if we wish to be accurate on this site.

Plus, how will he be unable to scratch 7-C magic users in other verses? Unless they're too fast or have hax to dodge his attacks, they'll get hurt by it if he hits them.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

We can actually give that rating with different prefixes, you know. At least 7-C physically, likely 6-C against magic

Then link to Galio = World Rune statement by his own creator and leave it to individual debaters whether Galio would be 7-C or 6-C in the situation they are fighting.

There is no doubt. Galio can take on Tier 6-C magical opponents, people who annihilate islands from tens of kilometers away. That's a fact.

 

[DerpCity]

I actually am starting to agree with RegisNex's concerns. I don't see the problem in only putting it for his durability or even just as a "feat" for his magic nullification, and since World Rune users don't have Durability equal to their AP (Using Ryze as an example) then he would have no issue fighting people who use them. Hell, even if they tried to use them defensively (creating shields) he'd nullify the magic by being near them, meaning they can't use it defensively. I don't see why it needs to scale to his AP at all, or even his Durability, since the nature of his being means that he doesn't need to be durable enough to tank it since they'll never hit them, assuming he also nullifies the explosions coming toward him, which I don't see why he wouldn't to be honest.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

That's not the problem here with regard to rating; the main problem is VSBattles' own tiering system. The current Tiering system takes into account AP only, while ignoring Durability. All the description in the Durability section was in fact removed a few months ago for this reason.

So no, Galio is not a Tier 6 combatant against Tier 6 mages in VSBattles' own system, which is then contracted by League of Legends' own lore.

Whatever solution we come up with, Galio has to enter Tier 6 as a 6-C combatant.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Woah, @Heinkel, we usually match Durability nearly equal to the Attack Potency as discussed before. No need to push it that far.... I am seriously have problems with that as it is. No need to push further than it already has.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Heinkel ...? What is so difficult to understand about this? Galio can nullify Island level magic attacks to to his Petricite physiology. World Runes have yet to display any ability to augment defensive capabilities, theyre essentially arcane nukes, a powerful weapon but if you use them youre basically killing yourself with the backlash (As seen in Ryze's lore this happened before). Unless someone actually uses a World Rune to augment their defenses, be it enhancing durability, creating barriers, or something to a similar effect, we cant just assume Galio can beat Island level opponents, especially considering it wouldnt be his brute strength alone that would grant him the win, but his magic nullification.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Looking over the arguments, im starting to agree that this wouldnt be a durability feat, rather a feat strictly for his magic absorption.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

What am I failing to understand that Galio has Tier 7 against non-magic opponents and Tier 6 against magical opponents?

No, Galio does not beat Island opponents who do not use magic (in truth in VS except here he would lose such non-magic fights by default. 'He doesn't even move against non-magic opponents' is a valid argument).

I am talking about opponents who achieve Tier 6 status by magic, because Galio performs differently against opponents who do and those who do not.

The current proposition then, is that he has one stat.

The current proposition leaves no room for entries such as '6-C through anti-magic hax' in a magical battle setting. He will have only one stat.

Tell me where in his profile he would have two tier ratings then.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

We have separate keys for the forms of each characters and etc,.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

We have separate keys for the forms of each characters and etc,.

Under the current proposition, Galio is Low 7-C for all of the forms.


He would be unable to, for example, touch Medea, because he can't get through Medea's Mountain level magical barrier (in her durability section). While in LoL lore Galio should have no problem absorbing such magnitude of magic.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Heinkel It will be just be Low 7-C physically, 6-C with magic. Just take it easy as I am only a regular member here. *sigh*

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmm...i see what you mean...

This is actually kinda hard to determine because yes, technically he would be able to nullify 6-C magic defenses...hmm...

Perhaps something like:

Small Town level, Able to bypass Island level magic defenses via Magic Nullification (Allows him to nullify magic comparable to that of a World Rune)

Would that work?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Weekly If he can use this hax both offensively and defensively, then it should be fine.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Star He sorta can, Galio is...odd. He doesnt augment his attacks, he is literally made of a material, called Petricite, which passively nullifies magic. He is stated to be able to nullify the offensive power of a World Rune, so logically he SHOULD be able to nullify a defensive magic power of the same caliber, but this wouldnt augment his physical power in any way, rather it would just knock the opponent's durability down if their durability is magic-based.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I think this is better:

Low 7-C physically, 6-C when bypassing magical defenses

When there is no magical defenses to speak of, it's straight forward to understand that he's limited to the lower performance (or you can just remind the debaters of that).


There is description in his Champion Update that Galio's Passive punch has bonus magic damage scaling ratio with Magic Resist (the higher the Magic Resist, the higher his magic damage) and also that his CC duration is increased the longer his magic shield is up.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/champion-galio-the-colossus

(go to the Abilities section)

In short, as his defensive stats increase, his offensive stats increase together in proportion to them as well. The exact numbers regarding these is gameplay, but the context and the origin behind this scaling are based on lore.

By the way, all his offensive abilities except his autoattack (the only one with physical AD) currently deal magic damage... that scale to his defensive stats somehow. This is in the game but how do you want to interpret this?


If we agree that his in-game scaling is based on his lore origin, then yes, he is augmenting his attacks to be magical, the scaling ratio for which are defensive stats.

Tell me your opinion. A lot of LoL profiles are a hybrid of gameplay and lore anyways (such as blinking abilities like Alpha Strike. I've seen arguments that it makes Master Yi appear in front of the person, and thus predictable).

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Heinkel We don't use game mechanics normally. Still you do have a fair point as the techniques has been mentioned with his lore correct?