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League of Legends Discussion Thread 4

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It is no different. Lore events have taken place in the game and there is nothing implying that lore and game are seperate.

There is the refusal to listen again

It your problem because youre breaking wiki rules and guidelines. Its your problem because you see problems where there are none. Yes, it is, because up until this point the people agreeing you have never set foot in a LoL thread. Nice elitist attitude btw.

If you never attempted it we wouldnt be having this conversation.
 
Riot seam to dissagree with you on that one

``Essentially, it means that the game and story aren't one-to-one copies of each other. League as a game is about creating awesome gameplay, while League as a story is about creating deep, vibrant characters and factions inhabiting an expansive world. We don't want to limit story because of gameplay, just like we wouldn't limit gameplay because of story ― we want both of them (and all the other elements of League) to have the freedom to be as great as they possibly can be.``

from here https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/creative-spotlight/dev-blog-exploring-runeterra

What are you suggesting weekly my opinion is invalide just because i dont weste my time on disscussion thread
 
The ones making and affecting the stories aren't us in the game or the game itself, they are the writers who wrote about the characters. Nothing ever happened in game that affected the story they wanted to tell except for Gangplank's rework, which had some extenuating circumstances.

You've never given any valid reasoning as to why you or the admins believe it should be the way it is.

What wiki rules/guidelines am I breaking? You've never provided any evidence for that either. As for those who've agreed with me, they've appeared in quite a few LoL related threads apart from this one, not that you'd care at all. Very nice accusing me of elitism when you're pretty much mocking my knowledge.

That's not really an answer Weekly. You keep thinking that I want downgrades, yet ignore me when I keep giving reasoning and evidence for the revisions. Should I never attempt any revisions then, for fear of you locking them down and claiming I'm wrong? No, of course not. What should happen is a proper discussion where people on both sides acknowledge points and come to an understanding, something that has rarely happened with you.

I won't be back for a while since I'm having dinner. I'll continue this later
 
@Bepo The quote that says that they dont want to limit the lore because of what's present in the game. The quote that says that what they have in the game they have in the lore, but they dont use it because it would limit their lore potential, which youre using as an argument that they dont have it at all. This is beyond an assumption youre making, youre basically flat out ignoring context and canon.

From your recent behavior it seems less like youre trying to give a valid argument and more like youre just trying to troll for some reason, so yes
 
There is also this comment by a rioter that is buried due to downvotes.

``-578

Good question!
No, Summoners, the Fields of Justice and the Institute are not canon within the fictional world of Runeterra. In-game, players are still referred to as summoners - but summoners won't be part of the story.``
 
@Bepo How does that have anything to do with this conversation? The Fields of Justice and Institute dont even exist in the lore anymore.
 
The fields of justice are not the summoner's rift. Summoner's rift still exists in LoL, in an area near the forests by the Ironspike Mountains. Im genuinely wondering if you have any idea what youre actually talking about at this point.
 
About the Ironspike Mountains:

An unforgiving barren wilderness, the Ironspike Mountains were colonized by political and social outcasts from Noxus, known as the Gray Order, who sought to leave their neighbors in peace as they pursued dark arcane knowledge. The leaders of this outcast society are a married couple: Gregori Hastur, the Gray Warlock, and his wife Amoline, the Shadow Witch. Though survival was a challenge at times, the Gray Order's colony managed to thrive in a land where so many others would have failed.

No mentions of Summoner's Rift there. Even the League wiki classifies it as a Game Location, not as a Geographical one in Runeterra.
 
>"Even the League wiki classifies it as a Game Location, not as a Geographical one in Runeterra."

>Shows the League wiki's page of Summoner's Rift with proof that they give it a geographical location

>Nope not legit

So now covering your ass because you got caught lying
 
 
Bepo and Regis, make sure to keep a polite and respectful tone within this wiki, especially towards the staff members.
 
Well, I suppose that Weekly might want to try to take this less seriously as well.
 
No problem in my case, but dealing with these types of discussions is very taxing for Weekly in the long run.
 
Weekly, I'm also sorry if you've been troubled so for, just know that I never meant to before or now to irritate anyone, just simply get a proper discussion.
 
Not to enflame tempers but Weekly- of the several characters you listed that have X-level feats, virtually none were related to Garen at all. Most were actually lone characters that interact with basically nobody. Rammus' lore made a point of how little he actually did anything to anyone deliberately.

"The Kinetic Energy of the sword yielded town level results, its basic physics really."

Uh, the kinetic energy of the sword when you take the speed from gameplay and the height from the cinematic yields town level results. The sword in the cinematic busts through a stone roof that's a few feet thick- that's it. A Twist of Fate cinematic was also prior to Garen being reworked for his ultimate to change form in the Juggernaut update. I'm well aware of the struggle of finding feats to calc but that scene is outdated for Garen.

"Udyr fighting Ao Shin who is the size of a small mountain, Janna creating and manipulating weather on a wide scale, Braum busting a good portion of a mountain with his punches, Rammus causing magnitude 6 earthquakes, Nami creating tsunamis, Ziggs' Mega Inferno Bomb utilizing nuclear fission, Urgot being at the epicenter of an explosion which rivaled the explosion that created the city of Zaun, Rek'Sai laying waste to multiple Shuriman cities, and Kassadin and Kai'Sa fighting and killing Voidborn that would be well into tier 7 through their sheer size, all tier 7 feats."

About half of those have little actual lore surrounding them to show what they're actually capable of and every single one has had nothing to do with Garen. Also (noob question again) why would the size of the Voidborn have anything to do with tiers? You can blow something's head off without needing to trade blows with it for example.

Lastly, Swain does NOT clearly and without question say Garen himself has magic, that's just misleading to claim; there's several different things he could've meant by that.
 
Breaking a stone roof doesnt matter, what matters is the sword's Kinetic Energy. Garen's abilities didnt change so no its not outdated. Also im not ure what you mean by taking speeds from the gameplay, the calc is for the cinematic use of the attack.

Why would that in any way affect the yield of the feat? When creatures reach a ceertain size they get a tier through their sheer size, in this case those voidborn would be tier 7 just by how absolutely massive they are.
 
Actually Garen's ultimate seems to be even faster than it was in the cinematic of you use the nearly instantaneous moment it happens in gameplay
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Breaking a stone roof doesnt matter, what matters is the sword's Kinetic Energy. Garen's abilities didnt change so no its not outdated. Also im not ure what you mean by taking speeds from the gameplay, the calc is for the cinematic use of the attack.
Why would that in any way affect the yield of the feat? When creatures reach a ceertain size they get a tier through their sheer size, in this case those voidborn would be tier 7 just by how absolutely massive they are.
Click to expand...
The sword's kinetic energy visibly only broke a stone ceiling. I don't need a calc when I can visibly see the results are not town-level. This is 500 tons of tnt. The calc insists Garen did over 10x that when there is barely an explosion and the most it did was make an, at best, 10 foot wide hole in a stone roof. Why does the math that says the sword dropped X height in Y seconds take more priority than the math that says, "Broke X amount of stone in Y radius"? The former requires many assumptions, the latter requires few.

And Garen's abilities absolutely changed. He got True Damage slapped on everything if you were a villain and his ultimate went from a literal sword hitting you to a blast of energy. I'd call that a change. His ult no longer resembles what we see in that cinematic.

I would think *how* you take down a monster would affect how much power you had. You could stab something in the eye or blow through the skull with a blast of energy- neither means you're physically the equal of the thing you're fighting. I could most certainly shoot the strongest man in the world in the face with a pistol- doesn't mean I'm anywhere near his level in strength or durability.
 
Because a bullet moving at a usual i dont know how much velocity (lets say 500/ms) has way less KE than the same bullet moving at 500000/ms

Ofc u wouldnt be his durability but u would get a separate street level key with pistol where only your Ap would change
 
Because calculating the yield of a feat based on the given parameters of said feat is vastly more legitimate than guestimating the tier of a feat by eyeballing it.

His four abilities were not replaced. Their effects changed but the abilities are the same. His ult looked like that even when he cinematic was new.

It means you can damage them though, so you'd be that tier. In that scenario you'd be human level and street level with a pistol.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Because calculating the yield of a feat based on the given parameters of said feat is vastly more legitimate than guestimating the tier of a feat by eyeballing it.
His four abilities were not replaced. Their effects changed but the abilities are the same. His ult looked like that even when he cinematic was new.

It means you can damage them though, so you'd be that tier. In that scenario you'd be human level and street level with a pistol.
Click to expand...
The calc doesn't HAVE given parameters. It assumes both the weight of the sword and from how far it fell. The latter should theoretically be doable since you'd just need to figure out how far away the sword would have to be to be borderline invisible- probably cloud-level or so.

There are zero assumptions with looking at the amount of rock destroyed. X amount of energy is needed to break Y amount of rock. And I happen to know you do not likely believe that's more legit- almost every given anime character on this site dishes out tons of destruction without the required speed or mass to dish out so much energy. These would be gauged on the destruction no? Not the speed of the character's arm?

Also Riot's notes on Garen's upgrade in the notes

In addition to the new model, all of Garen's abilities, animations and particles have been upgraded. His ultimate, [1] Demacian Justice, shines with righteous energy, and the [2] winningest spi in Valoran has been refined in its motion, making Garen's signature techniques as polished as his intimidating pauldrons.

Garen's previous ult was a literal sword , not a blast of 'righteous energy ' like what it is now. Look at his in-game ult now and his in-game ult then (when A Twist of Fate came out). They're not the same thing.
 
Yes it does, it finds the parameters of the sword, finds how fasts its moving, and gets a result. That is how a lot of calculations on thi wiki are done.
 
Garen's previous ult was a literal sword , not a blast of 'righteous energy ' like what it is now. Look at his in-game ult now and his in-game ult then (when A Twist of Fate came out). They're not the same thing.

I agree the calc and the cinematic are outdated since Garen rework. You can't find the mass of sword made out of holy light.

The low end of the calc also assumes that the sword fell from 55 kilometers. Which lets say is quite a stretch. Much more resonable distance would be cloud hight which is 2km
 
When i started playing league in season 5 which was pre Juggernaut update it was a blast and not a sword this is far older footage than that as even the map is old summoners rift
 
Just like to point out that even the calc for Garen uses that same attack with the same appearance for reference, its not at all outdated.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Yes it does, it finds the parameters of the sword, finds how fasts its moving, and gets a result. That is how a lot of calculations on thi wiki are done.
Click to expand...
And if I can get a different result using the same exact scene? Such as finding the amount of energy needed to break a few feet of stone? Or timing how long it took the sword to fall and reverse-calculating how far it would fall to take so long?
 
Breaking the stone isnt the feat though, the feat is the energy of the sword falling from the sky
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Breaking the stone isnt the feat though, the feat is the energy of the sword falling from the sky
Click to expand...
That's the feat... because some random person on the internet decided it was. I see literally no reason why those other methods are not just as applicable, if not moreso since they both require less assumptions.
 
Honestly as a calc group memeber this is how I see it:

The calc for Garen's old ultimate only has one hangup. The assumption of height is the only issue for me. Weight isn't a problem since that can be safely gauged. The smaller destruction it caused isn't a problem since the KE found in the calc is higher; oftentimes writers don't know how powerful they make something (e.g. Fast planet surface destruction leading more than planet level yet the authors think X character can't planet bust, only surface bust). The only possible issue is the assumption of height, which actually may be an issue.

But I do think it is outdated. Garen now has durability-bypassing righteous energy to finish off his opponents instead of dropping a literal sword from the sky.
 
@Weekly

Using cloud line will be so much lower that we have better feats to scale from.

But I don't think it should be done either. Energy has no mass and the old "drop a sword from the sky" isn't really something that exists in any media right now.

Lore doesn't use it. The game doesn't use it. Only old cinematic before the Garen rework and Lore update use it. And it's only 1 of those.
 
So everyone would just be scaled from the rest of the 7-C feats? Or are we going to look at the possibility of an upgrade scaling from Jax?
 
Either or. Malzahar's super-earthquake feat will probably be in tier 7 as well.

Also an Earthquake hitting 8.2 could rip open the San Andreas fault, which is hundreds of miles, so Malz's quake probably lands at around Magnitude 8.
 
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