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League of Legends Discussion Thread 4

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Yup

Also just like to point out that The Climb kinda confirmed that Taliyah's earth anip is strong enough to protect against Xerath
 
"We had to topple half the mountain to put the big bastard down," Colgrim added. "And even then, only Saijax had a weapon big enough to take its head off."

Yep thats a feat
 
Homing attacks as her royal armor uses missles

Black hole creation

she has anti matter projectiles aswell

Flight

Transformation

Dunno if thats all
 
Hoo boy, I see we're contesting Demacian Justice again, let's throw all this up-

- Using the "but the old version was a physical sword, and the new one isn't!" argument is blatantly false. In the very video you linked, Demacian Justice is very obviously made out of energy, as made evident by its transparency, stopping above the ground (not hitting it or breaking anything) and spinning in place, etc. Either way, the Twist of Fate cinematic doesn't match up.

Hell, the new animation seems to fit more, if anything, as one could easily conceive of some giant sword mass contained within sword-shaped holy energy, dispersed upon impact as one would anticipate an object colliding at such high speeds to. Note: it "shines with" righteous energy, not "is" righteous energy. At least, not necessarily-

Though, even as it is in-game, it doesn't change what we see with our own two eyes in the cinematic.

- Area-of-effect fallacy has never been a valid reason to discount feats... in any verse. Why is this being brought up now?

- Not sure if anyone actually watched the cinematic linked (or even saw the picture in the calc, for that matter), but there's a twinkle in the sky far above the clouds. Just assuming cloud height doesn't really cut it here, no.

As far as the particular cloud height assumed, I only went by what people I would consider far more intelligent than myself suggested...

- Summoner's Rift being non-canon doesn't mean that characters don't get gameplay feats. This is the difference between "could" something happen (in theory, seeing as it did pre-reboot within the lore proper), and "did" something happen (which, post-reboot, it has not. Hence, we don't scale characters to each other without substantial reason.)

Speaking of substantial reason,

- Garen is a literal nobody, just about, relative to the other champions as far as prevalence/importance in the verse power-wise goes, both before and after the rework. I don't really see why we would assume a relatively unimportant guard captain is many dozens of times stronger than most of the plot-important characters in the verse, who are consistently considered a bigger deal... so why don't they scale, again?

Assuming that Garen is so much vastly stronger than characters he has no business being stronger than- read, most of them- is contradictory to even the new lore, in which he is demonstrably not so.

(Even if this wasn't the case, for whatever reason, I can probably go back and find the feats that made Multi-City Block and Mach 90 consistent back in the day, so its not at all as if they're incredibly weak fodder or whatever it is people seem to assert. That's why Garen's was never an outlier...)

- This feat being from a cinematic fails to invalidate it, as no context is inherently tied to said cinematic. We don't use, say, the cinematic for the Dominion game mode because doing so would imply that what happens in Dominion is in fact canon- however, as the context for A Twist of Fate only extends so far as "Some Champions fight." Nothing here is contradictory to the lore.

- The fact that their attacks have parity with one another at all- or that Katarina in this instance doesn't explode into paste from being near the Area of Effect and required that Garen try to strike a finishing blow- should be demonstration enough that, even if this particular attack happens to be stronger, the rest of their attacks/durability are not no far behind as to warrant this only counting as a "finishing move", seperate from the rest of it. The entire point of AP is to find the character at the their strongest, barring outliers and whatnot, this is already factored into the equation. We don't assume that every single swing that character makes is equivalent to their maximum potential unless the feat putting them there was also casual.

- Yes, Katarina did react to this at nigh-point blank range. Every single portrayal of this technique thus far both in and out of game drops the attack directly onto Garen's target regardless of dodging, etc.(as per a homing technique), Katarina had not begun to dodge yet the last we had seen, and Katarina does not have a gigantic hole in her head or elsewhere- in fact, if you watch the video in slow motion, you can see her falling along with the rest of the rubble into the pit, seemingly wounded/dazed by the impact of the sword itself nearby- notably, not directly impaled.

.

All of this said, because it does in fact require assumptions in order to most accurately be evaluated for what it is, I would be in favor of downgrading League's base-line feat to better fit the low-end of the calc, if anyone else bothered to make a case for it, since the assumptions required are safer.

I can even see an argument for using the speed we see in-cinematic, rather than the speed presented in-game, potentially, based on the whole "same demonstration of speed" thing that applies to some instances of Calc Stacking-

Just, please, no more arguments from incredulity... all they ever do is make everybody involved salty.

P.S. Weekly, please stop calling thread-goers "poor ignorant souls" and liking your own posts, in the future. Its obnoxious and condescending, to speak frankly, and as an Administrator one should act as a role model for other people on this site.
 
Other assorted things-

- I've begun to think that the Aspects' current stats might not be legitimate. I'd have to go back and check on it.

- Daily friendly reminder, in case anyone gets the idea somehow, to not pester Riot about Versus Debating questions. We all know how that went with Devil May Cry, after the Dante vs Bayonetta fallout...

- "That is vague. Stating, "I killed many a giant back in my day" tells us nothing about what I did to kill them."

This is a valid point. In fact, IIRC, it's why Doomguy isn't, like, City level or something for supposedly killing beings of that size in the past. So I hear from some friends of mine who are more knowledgeable in the verse... but you get the point, yeah?
 
@Shrek Jarvan should be superior to Fiora

Garen should only be somewhat inferior to Jarvan

And so follows everyone else...
 
I've already pointed out that Fiora can't really scale from Jax since we never get to see them fight, as the story ends before we see anything. It could easily be a stomp by Jax as it could be a hard fought battle.

As for Garen's ultimate, you can't just take it and ignore his current lore where his whole character and feats don't support it at all. It's just one feat against a bunch of much lower feats and statements, and picking the higher one seems a bit like wank to me. Note that this is the only feat being used to scale everyone else power wise. There aren't any other supporting feats that can be applied to everyone. And I've already said that I'm fine with re-adding said feat if Garen in his stories does come to learn of his innate powers and masters it. Just right now, it doesn't seem like he knows about it and we shouldn't attribute feats that he can't perform right now to his current profile.

Cinematics wise, it only has the context of 'show how gameplay works when animated', just like A New Dawn. Compare to Warwick: The Wrath of Zaun or Xayah and Rakan: Wild Magic, or the various short animated teasers we get for skins and champs where they show off how things work in the world they're from.

Aspects are weird. Some of the things they do seems like hax and they haven't shown super great durability in their weak mortal forms going by Pantheon (Zoe is different as she's spent a lot more time and has a lot more power to access).
 
@Regis Jax seeing her as a rival is enough to justify scaling her to him. If you disagree then make a CRT about it as that would be disagreeing with dozens if not hundreds of profiles. Im not even bothering to address your argument anymore as its been debunked so many times its not even funny.

What weak durability feat does Pantheon have?
 
@Regis

One thing she would only fight jax without a real weapon(casual jax) when he beheaded the ascendent he wasnt alone and was using a real weapon so meh dunno about this scaling to anyone besides jax
 
Rivalry isn't enough, as an example, Vegeta considered Goku his rival yet for most of DBZ he was consistently portrayed as weaker, only recently being made an equal (until the Mastered UI Goku transformation).
 
Fair enough

But i seriously wouldnt scale it to jarvan

As fiora is the hailed as the best duelist of valoran while Jarvan is just a king with regular demacian training
 
Ok, what kind of argument is this? I point out that poeple's thoughts and opinions may not be the most accurate way to judge a character's strength when other materials say otherwise, yet you just flat out ignore me and say that it's enough, regardless of any counter arguments.
 
There really is considering he was more or less never in combat and has little to no experience in actual fightning while there is no reason for him to be comparable to her
 
@Regis The argument that is backed by the rules and standards of the wiki rather than your argument based on what you think is right even when it contradicts the wiki's standards. If you dont like it then youre going to have to make a CRT and agrue the standards of the wiki.
 
Rivalry doesn't mean anything regarding their respective strength. Kled considers everyone his rival, does that mean we scale him to people like Zoe or Aurelion Sol? Of course not, because that would be silly. Same goes for Fiora and Jax, until Fiora has shown that she is capable of fighting Jax evenly when both are giving their all, then there's no scaling to be had here.
 
Yes, yes it does. Kled is insane so no. Jax considers Fiora a rival, so she would scale to him
 
Kled doesnt consider them rivals he considers others intruders on his property

also its not to same if a weaker person(kled) calls A sol a rival and if a stronger person(jax) calls a weaker person(fiora) his rival
 
Me, Heinkel, Ever, Assalt, and Prom all told you that scaling Fiora to Jax due to him considering her a rival is fine.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
No it doesn't. There's no supporting evidence, so there's no scaling to be made.
Click to expand...
He considers her a rival, that is all the evidence that is needed, regardless of how legitimate you think it is
 
I thought this site was about using reliable evidence to rate and scale profiles, which isn't here in this case. So calling that 'evidence' seems a lot like wanking than logical reasoning.
 
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