League of Legend: Freijod characters being overrated

[Kodaka]

It seem like Freijod characters, Ashe and Sejuani is being overrated to 6-B and country power level just because they can fight on par with Lissanda and other high power level characters with that power level... in game... for balance purpose. let take Ashe, her Attack Potency is listed to be Country level just because she fought "Fought on-par with Lissandra"... in game, speed is listed as Supersonic because she "Can keep up with champions like Bard, and can dodge bullets and magical lightning and light attacks"... in game. Lifting Strength is Superhuman because she "Able to lift and fire an ice arrow larger than herself"... because her ult is a long stun and having a big arrow help ppl see it coming. all of those have no in-lore merit at all. the fact that an archer who can't even unite her people is rated higher in tier than superhuman demigod archer like that of Arjuna who could fight armies by himself is ridiculous.

in lore, Ashe is just a very skilled archer with a special bow that apply forst effect on those she shot, she certainly not a superhuman character who could a large enough group of men of herself, say serveral dozens or hundreds, let alone country or armies, she have shown no superhuman feat in lores either other than her marksmanship, she is just a normal human. same with sejuani, she is also just a strong warrior with a special ice weapon.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Although your logic is a bit flawed in claiming peopel with arrows shouldn't be able to deal Country level strikes, I do agree that they are way too strong. Swain for example and Brand. I know Brand, Lissandra and Anivia perform their feats over time and Swain scales too much in all honesty.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Like I told you before, you should message WeeklyBattles about this.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/298867

Last time I did I got nothing. Maybe he's just not fond of me? Besides in here many more people can discuss. But alright.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Sorry, I was directing that at the OP. You can just link this thread.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Aight aight. Linking it to him then.

 

[Kodaka]

@ CoreOfimBalance(COB): you misunderstood me, arrow can do country level strike, hell, Arjuna I talk about above have Pashupata, a universe level strike arrow...

what I talked about is that in lore Ashe's bow and arrow is but a normal bow and arrow with ice enchantment, she never bursted country with it and the only in lore action it saw is shooting a few of her assassins. and the archer herself is a normal human.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You dont have to bust a country to be country level, she did fight on par with Lissandra, who is country level at her weakest

Plus, i'm not sure how familiar you are with the lore, but Ashe and Sejuanni are decendants of the Iceborn, which would explain their level of power seeing as Lissandra is an Iceborn as well

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I wish ThePerpetual were here...he could deal with this better than i can

 

[Kodaka]

she fought on par with her in game, not in lore, as I explained, she have did no superhuman feats in lore so far.

in game we literally have star creator and a guy with a stick fight on par with eachoter cause of balance reason.

 

[Promestein]

If they weren't able to fight on par, Lissandra would win the war in an instant. They should all be comparable.

 

[Kodaka]

Because Liss own country level attack is an attack that froze friejod cited is not attack that could kills its people either, on a 1v1 or 1varmies level liss is not that strong, and as I said, Ashe did no superhuman feat on her own in lore, without her bow she had to run from a group of assassins.

 

[Promestein]

That's... absurd downplaying.

 

[Kodaka]

and @ WeeklyBattles you misunderstood further, iceborn is another race within league lore, Ashe is but a human who lives in the Freijod, not an iceborn.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

She is a descendant of the Iceborn

 

[Kodaka]

@Promestein absurd downplaying? may you cite where did I downplaying this? in lore she is but a human with good marksmanship and a freezing bow and arrow.

 

[Kodaka]

@ WeeklyBattles descendant maybe but right now she is a human, in power.

 

[Promestein]

There are consistent feats of much higher level than normal human for League champions, and, considering Ashe should be able to fight on par with Lissandra (who obviously should be able to channel her power into attacks because I see no reason for her not being able to), you're downplaying.

 

[Kodaka]

much higher than norman human in their skill, and please, what are their consistent feats? shown me just one that prove their streght is superhuman in anyway, let alone feat that considered country level.

you justification is just absurd as well, in lore they didn't even fought eachother face to face once. and just because they haven't fought they must be equal strenght? how many fiction have their absurbly more powerful villain not fight their protagonist early already?

and no, she can't channel them into an attack, her spell to froze over the land is different from an offensive spell to kill humans.

 

[Kodaka]

I reapeat, not once in lore did ashe and other freijod characters is showns to do superhuman feat, Liss own feat is not a battle one, but a spell, a curse that froze over the land, she shown to not have did any feat of battle that is could take on armies herself, hell, in lore she had to make an army of her own through deception and not through power, so for her and other freijod characters to be rated as country level is absurd.

 

[Kodaka]

"I have seen the future, and it is cold. The Watchers return and they are so pleased with you. They will take away your hunger. They will take away your pain. You will be reborn; like me, you will become Iceborn."

Liss own quote would cite that Freijod people might be descendant of iceborn, but no iceborn themselves.

 

[Kodaka]

Liss didn't even froze freijod by herself


"That was the last day that warm blood ran through her veins. With her corrupted tribesmen and the strength of the Watchers, she swept across the land like a terrible blizzard. As her empire spread, the world grew colder and ice choked the land"

 

[Kodaka]

with what said so far, Liss is not even country level, anyone with a strong enough army could conquer lands. and if they know enough magic apply their spell onto a localized area one by one

 

[Kodaka]

if there is no objection, I will be editing their page to reflect their in lore power in a few hours

if anyone could provide any in-lore proof of their superhuman feats, any in-lore proof of ashe arrow ever capable of killing anything stronger than human, anything in-lore proof of them being the only person matter in their respective armies, please post them.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Um, no you will not. No one agrees with this downplay

 

[Kodakaa]

My apology to the community for saying that I will edit up there, I'm were new and frustrated at the lack respone, it were my mistake I hope you guys understand

anyway, I have provided lore to support my argument and I welcomes any pieces of lore that contractdict it, I believe I were not downplaying anything.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Actually I agree with the downpaly since any feats Lissandra has shown with freezing was ambigious on the time frame and from the looks of it... It's highly likely she's only country given time. And if I remember correctly, Ashe and her people could have trouble with bandits time to time. Until she joined forced with Tryndamere.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Alright so here;s the deal here.

So Kodaka is fine with all pages. It's just that so far it's Arshe(?) and like 3 other chicks that's powerscaled from her. Does anybody have anything to counter what he had brought to the table here so far? Anybody?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

None but if I can add onto Kodaka's statement, if Lissandra was country level and everyone else is lower, it would be a bad idea to try and take over instantly because she'll get a lot of attention throughout the lands. And that'll put a bounty on her head as a very threatening opponent. So she might be holding back against Ashe but again, ambigious time frame on how much time is needed for Lissandra to freeze the world but it's certainly not a day

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm getting a whole argument put together disproving his claims. Also i reeeeeally think we should wait for Perpetual's input on this, he was the on who put them at that level in the first place.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Weekly does have a point, yea. If it;s anybody that knows this, i'd ask Perpetual.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

2 things, last time I talked to him he was considering leaving VS Debates which is although sad it would seriously help him out. Though the situation might've changed so I don't know anymore. Either way I really wouldn't want to intrude on him considering he could be busy and we might be making him use up his time, but on the other hand this isn't a matter we can just keep ignoring since last time I asked no one even gave a glance at my question anymore.

Edit - Secondly that might be from Anivia being the embodiment of Winter. But last time I checked,

Anivia is a being of the coldest winter, a mystical embodiment of ice magic, and an ancient protector of the Freljord

Crap. I can't copy paste well. Well that's not really embodiment of winter if she's just a being and a manifestation of ice magic

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mmm, fair enough. @Frost

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I agree, we need to take care of this, as well as this

Anivia keeps a storm larger than the Freljord under control 24/7. This storm is located just north of the Freljord itself.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Agreed. In any case show me the context for that WB please thank you.

And you'll just have to find other feats for that. Personally unsure of using gameplay mechanics visual effects since otherwise we might have MHS bullets... But I do recommend we change all Relativistic Reaction folks to at least Hypersonic or Unknown because Kodakaa debunked the laser feat already.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well the fact that she keeps it in control constantly would make it less impressive that if she just created it and left it be alive on its own IIRC.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yeah we don't have an exact time frame on how much time it took to gather the energy necessary for that.

 

[Kodaka]

I will copy my post on Cross profile over here:

"

the character I have problems with is Ashe and Sejuani, and just about everything about them is rated up to 9001 on a scale of 10. in the wiki, they are listed as 6-B, but in lore, they have shown no super human feat.

let take Ashe, the only thing notable about her in lore is that she is a pricess and a very skilled archer, she have perfomed no superhuman feat in lore, in fact, the lore only proved that her streght, speed, durability is is that of a human.

in lore, she were a princess of her tribe and they saw her as unfit, so they sent assassin after her, her respond? she ran for her life, and after a while she found an ice bow and fend off the assassins.

in this wiki, she is listed to have Speed: Supersonic and Durability: Country level, should someone that durable be afraid of a band of assassins? if she so fast then how come she can't outrun the assassins? the assassins are her tribemans and they are no superhuman either, as in a piece of lore demacia (the place with reasonably rated humans) sent one of their character as a scout to the tribes to gauge their strength and noted nothing superpower about them. her bow in lore have not shot anything other than those assassins either.

but why some people even think that they are that strong in the first place? it because of lissandra, an ice witch, the leader of one of the 3 factions in freijod, the region they fighting over, as many rating cite being able to fight on par with her as basis for the rating. The thing is, in lore, they have never fought, even liss power have many factual error with the lore. let me break it down.

Attack Potency: Country level (Froze over most of the Freljord in a short span of time, fought on-par with Ashe and Sejuani, and wields power comparable to Anivia) | Multi-Continent level (Was able to imprison Brand while he was at full power, Able to freeze the surface of the entire planet)

"Froze over most of the Freljord in a short span of time" she did not do it by herself. to quote the lore

"With her corrupted tribesmen and the strength of the Watchers, she swept across the land like a terrible blizzard. As her empire spread, the world grew colder and ice choked the land."

it clearly a slow process by conquering the land with her army then apply the spell/curse to freeze it over one by one.

"Was able to imprison Brand while he was at full power" I could not find any lore pieces of this, yes, I did check everything I could find, official side story, official lore page etc.

"Able to freeze the surface of the entire planet" couldn't find anything on this either, but it seem to be based on this... boast which is very up to interpretation.

"the Frostguard protect me, Lissandra. While others bicker, we prepare. When the time is right, we will strike. They cannot withstand us, they are only human. And when the war is over, the world, our world, will be reborn - in ice."

this quote could be taken as she just rallying her army, and "the world" she refer to could just be her region, as she said "our world" after it, she did not shown that she could do that in lore nor did she do it.

Speed: Supersonic with High Hypersonic+ reactions and combat speed (Can keep up with champions like Bard, and can dodge bullets and magical lightning and light attacks)

no lore, only gameplay... which is for balance purpose.

Durability: Country level (Can take hits from Ashe and Sejuani) | At least the same, likely Multi-Continent level

no lore, seem like the 3 feedback onto themself for power, or based on the overrated offensive power, which does not mean anything for defensive power, no lore mention of defensive power.


Stamina: SuperHuman

no lore here either.

Range: Several meters to several kilometers with weaker magic | Planetary at full power seem to be based on the boast based power above.

so that's all about it, Ashe and Sejuani is overrated because of Liss, and Liss herself is overrated, lore even states that she needed an army, and to get them, she used deception instead of power."


and CoreOfimBalance(COB) brought up a good point. Ashe and her people hads trouble with bandits time to time. Until she joined forced with Tryndamere.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ok, just for reference what are the exact changes you think should be made? As in what do you think they should be changed to?

 

[Kodaka]

I want Ashe and Sejuani to be scaled down to the limit a normal human can achieve with skills, physical training and an above-average weapon with special effects, Ashe bow for example, should be the same as a anti-material rifle or rocket launcher at most