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League of Legends Speed Revisions

ThePerpetual

ThePerpetual

VS Battles
Retired
2,861
224
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ThePerpetual/League_of_Legends_Speed_Stuff

Basically, I did this.

Thing is, though, recent information has come out that Bard is a Celestial. For those of you not up to speed on League of Legends terminology, celestials are top dogs in the verse as a whole, so not just anything gets to scale to them. The likes of the Darkin, the Ascendants, the Freljord Queens, and other comparable characters ought to given their similar standing in the verse, Illaoi could possibly(?) due to channeling the power of the verse's equivalent of a Great Old One and being noted to be well above much of the cast in the canon proper, and so forth, but...

Most of the cast could probably use a bit of a downgrade.

In other words:

The Mach 90.5 (High Hypersonic+) value in place previously gets tossed altogether, a good chunk of the verse's upper tiers gets buffed to Mach 207.121 (Massively Hypersonic), and the rest get nerfed to just Mach 44.08 (High Hypersonic).

Any objections, to the changes proposed?
 
I do not have any objections, but am the wrong person to ask, so you should probably ask the calculation group members and Crazystarf to take a look at this.
 
Replied, however, I will post it here.

Crazystarf wrote
So, with regards to Bard's feat:
  • So, with Bard ascending, the bottom of the mountain is not at the line you indicated but actually indicated at the light blue line that I drew.
Cloud
  • 47.9px = ~1000m (those are stratus clouds)
  • Arrows point at a cumulus cloud, which are just over 1000m in height. The cloud height is not 3000m.
  • 211.7px =/= mountain height. This is because the 211.7px is slanted slightly diagonal instead of straight, meaning that is the surface distance from the bottom to the top of the mountain and not the actual height of it.
  • Use the 192px that I drew below for height instead. This is the actual vertical distance for the mountain.
  • (192px/47.9px)*(1000m) = 4008.35m (Mountain height)
  • The timeframe for Bard's feat was calculated to be 0.5 seconds, as shown in the picture below.
Mountain
  • Bard moves about 129px, or about 2693m in 0.5 seconds.
  • This results in 5.386km/s, or about Mach 15.83

And next, regarding Garen's Demacian Justice:

  • Don't assume cloud height. It heavily inflates the results of any speed feat that is done.
  • Similar to the previous calculation, we will use a cloud height of 1000m.
  • Your timeframe is correct for this one. 0.2 seconds.
  • 1000m/0.2s = 5km/s, or about Mach 14.69
These result in Hypersonic+ speed for LoL characters in general.

Use Avidemux 2.6 for recording timeframes next time.
 
...... But we can't use this.

Bard was literally using a charged portal that ascends. This isn't some regular speed that he always moves. This was the moment he used some sort of item to move around. It's arguable that Bard can do that but not everyon can scale off of this. That's like me claiming MFTL Touhou applies to everyone because someone can teleport/use gaps.

I literally snapped awake when I saw a glance of the message. That's amazing actually. Well guess I need to fall asleep now

Also for the Relvativistic issue? Swain couldn't use that. The light already reached him before he could move, aka the lock on laser. And the giant laser came right after. So no, no speed of light reaction and relativistic speed from doding Lux's laser does not count. And there are other feats of dodging lasers and beams, but those are neither cinematic nor official in lore.

So I heavily dislike this changes.

You cannot use this scaling. But of course knowing myself only I would be opposing these changes...

Edit - As much as the speed buff and nerfs would be a nice touch, you can't just use some sort of charged teleportation/ascencsion to predetermine all the travel and combat speed of Ascendants and what since they're vastly different. The Celestials are indeed top dogs as you said but it doesn't instantly mean others could catch up. Well they would be but that's a portal/charged teleport feat. Even the Iceborn doesn't have any similar ability to that.

Edit Edit - But yeah hypersonic champions have always been a thing. Unless they have some sort of ability explicitly letting them use portals then maybe.
 
You can't really scale with clouds, the other stuff regarding canonicity is beyond me because I don't follow LoL.
 
What cloud calcs? You can assume a height when finding the volume of a cloud because that barely affects the final results, but scaling from cloud heights is not an endorsed practice on here or Narutoforums. This is because it greatly skews the results.

I'm not about to have an argument about this though.
 
However, we can approximate the height of clouds judging from their appearance, using the scale I posted above.

We can lowball the height of the clouds just to be safe. However, we do know that clouds in the picture I posted start at a height of 1000m, minimum.
 
What Crazy said is true AFAIK, you can get height from apparent cloud type.

I don't see why this matters though considering that it's apparently teleportation.
 
@Starf The only real point I'm seeing made is that the clouds are to be cumulus, which they are not. Have you even checked what cumulus clouds look like? and I highly doubt that regardless, that's not even remotely what cumulus clouds look like. The clouds in particular are far more similar to Cumulonimbus clouds , and even using the absolute lowest of low ends for such a cloud yields 2 km. This is perfectly in keeping with the 2-4 kilometer range, and thus 3 kilometer average, of your standard, everyday clouds.

I mean, I get what you're getting at with drawing down the middle, but the problem that poses is that you're drawing a line and just stopping in the middle of the darkness, and on top of that are trying to fit a slanted ellipse into a non-slanted drawn shape. And are drawing over my scalings, which have pre-existing lines interfering with accurate scaling. The height of the mountain is irrevelant regardless, the more important bit is the height of the cloud's shadow on the mountain.

What? He moves 129 px? You literally just measured a line very cleraly half that size: the mountain itself: to be 192 pixels a second ago, you're just pulling numbers out of nowhere at this point.

On top of the prior explanation as to why your cloud height is wrong, for Garen's calc? We know already that the clouds that the projectile is shooting from in this instance aren't Cumulus: again, I've checked multiple times, and every single time they're far too distant, and not nearly fluffy/white/solid enough, to be Cumulus. Though they share some similarities to Cumulonimbus, the weather around then isn't stormy enough to justify that. It's more akin to a partial covering of oddly covered Altostratus clouds or the particularly thin Cirrostratus clouds that they appear to be.

You're assuming cloud height as much as I am, and on top of that are assuming it's something other than average/what is actually portrayed by the clouds themselves which makes it even worse, and the calc itself has errors in it. No, I'm not going to use your current math.

As far as it being teleportation, uuhh... try no. You can very clearly see the ball of light he's visible as moving upwards at a constant speed, were he teleporting it would just be him vanishing and that would be it. The fact that there's a beam of actual light he's contained within, if anything, only further confirms this much. It isn't Magical Journey, either, else he'd be opening a complex portal glyph: he's just performing a ritual to take the artifact and shrine with him. I did, in fact, think all of these possibilities through long before I bothered calcing it in the first place.

In short, I can go back and do a take 2 with minor edits later, but nothing at the core of what I've done isn't justified, and multiple trustworthy resources back up the values used.
 
Aka he used a slightly charged ability to teleport the area into a small portal. Since when did League ever became accurate with gameplay on their cinematics? You've seen Ekko's change of fighting style. Bard could've just used a different and much larger scale version of his teleportation ability or used one of the artifacts there.

It still doesn't really scale with the others really.

And if the speed revision is here then I'm going to lower down Swain's speed okay?
 
Man, you reeeeeally wanna change Swain's speed dont you? At last wait till this whole thing is resolved before you make any changes.
 
It's one way to get attention to a topic that everyone seems to want to look away from. Aka I'm trying to add this onto the debate. Isn't that a natural thing to do? Sides, that change is long overdue.

Then again I should've phrased my words better. I blame lack of sleep.
 
There is no portal, Core. The following happen:

Bard stops the orb held by the old man from falling into the hands of the warlike folk down below/falling off the mountain.

He then proceeded to fly to the top of the mountain, and set the relic on the pedestal.

He blew at the relic with the horn, which caused a shockwave of light to erupt outwards and light up the other two altars.

Beams of light erupt into the sky from each of the three altars, which disintegrates them.

Bard ascends upwards while inside of the light pillar.

There is no reason to assume he needs this light to fly or that it's teleportation, we already know he's able to fly because he just spent a good chunk of the cinematic flying around at superspeeds, and even in-game flies constantly. Do explain where this supposed teleportation portal is to found that signifies that he isn't able to attain these speeds when he likes, I see no such portal and all and I've rewatched the cinematic several times now.

And no, that's not a "natural thing to do." That is called derailing the thread from it's original purpose, which is specifically to discuss the speeds of these particular characters, and is in fact frowned upon. Please refrain from doing that in the future.
 
@Perp: We will go with the cloud height being 3000m as you stated. It seems like the lasers coming from the cloud did scatter the surrounding mountain into pieces, which caused the shape of the clouds to change.

To find the actual height of the mountain, remember that the line you drew in your original picture was a diagonal line and not a straight one. Drawing that doesn't really indicate the actual vertical height of the mountain, and I'll show you why.

Diagonal line
Also, the 129px was directly pixel-scaled from the picture.

The vertical height of the mountain was pixel-scaled from the picture to be (ahem, 88.88px) with the distance that Bard moved from the top of the mountain to where he is in the picture to be 129px.

However, I made some changes for a new cloud height, which is about 36.4px (orange text and line).

Mountain2
36.4px = ~3000m

88.88px = 7326m

129px = 10633m

However, the timeframe that I circled still applies. The time it took for Bard to reach the top of the mountain to where he is in the picture to the right was only 0.5 seconds, as it is shown on the bottom circle on the right.

Travelling 10633m in 0.5 seconds gives me 21.27km/s, or Mach 62.5

Keep in mind that this is Bard's travel speed.


Galan's Demacian Justice
Now this is the surprising part.

Now, the second part that I did was an extreme lowball. I did not factor in the first picture that you posted in the previous calculation when calculating the speed.

Looking at the first picture closer, it seems that Galan's Demacian Justice comes from a place far higher than where the Earth's clouds are, probably from way beyond the atmosphere of Earth, and seemingly twinkling like a star before falling down, as indicated in the picture here.

Oh look it's a star:
Star1
Let's do a calculation for a few different ends of the levels of atmosphere just in case. We will go with the timeframe of 0.2 seconds as you stated.

Reference here:
EarthAtmosphereBig
Low end: start of Mesosphere (60km above ground level) V = Distance/Time V = 50km/0.2 seconds = 250km/s, or Mach 735

Mid end: start Thermosphere (120km above ground level) V = 50km/0.2 seconds = 500km/s, or Mach 1470

High end: start of Exosphere (600km above ground level) V = 600km/0.2 seconds = 3000km/s, or Mach 8816

So, with the suggestions in mind, the speed ratings that I would give for LoL characters would be...

Speed: High Hypersonic+, with Massively Hypersonic+ reactions/combat speed
 
Huh.

Well, at any rate, I'd save any further arguments/points to be made for whenever I get around to making part 2 of this, current thread's sort of all over the place and edits need to be made anyhow. I'm also really busy with IRL events regardless and am thus quite tired of debating. Unless you want to make a blog I guess...?
 
It's a speed revision thread.... Are we not supposed to talk about other speed related issues here? What exactly derails the issue? I'm still talking about the same topic too. But you know what fine. I'll just stop.

And one little thing about that.... No one has actually reacted to the Ult if we're going by gameplay mechanics. Flashing, using spell shields and what not. So hey, might be even too fast for them. So that's something.

But I won't bother stressing you out anymore.
 
I agree with ThePerpetual. Stick to the original issue please.
 
Well, a new blog would have to be made for the new calc, else there'd be nothing to link to.
 
Fine I'll focus on the main issue then instead of getting off topic.

The issue with this is is that it's assuming the characters in League react to Garen's falling sword. But neither in lore, in gameplay or in cutscenes can anyone do that. So is this really something we can use? Is it really fair to scale something like that? There's other more accurate feats to scale off imo.
 
Hmm. Is what COB mentioned true? What do the rest of you think?
 
IIRC no one is capable of reacting to Demacian Justice. Once Garen finishes the animation, it's instant.
 
Hmm. We may have to find something else to scale from then.
 
I believe you guys are right on this one. The calculation that I did for the Demacian Judgement has too many assumptions for it to be truly valid a feat; however we can still find how slower other attacks are compared to Garan's Demacian Justice by comparing timeframes however...

Edit: Looking at the video carefully, Demacian Justice has a specific time duration where it comes down from the sky directly to the ground. We can make a timeframe for this.

I disagree with COB's assessment.
 
Yet no one has still reacted? Even if you can make a time frame of it no one has really shown any reaction feats to it. It's a near instant attack in gameplay but if even in cutscenes no one has dodged it... Well yeah we can use the calc to measure what speed becomes too much for any League Champion to react.
 
Gameplay mechanics. The attack itself is near instant and I remember having to activate my shield before he can even plant that sword into the ground. You can't block the moment that sword is on the ground.
 
Gameplay mechanics still count. If a character is able to deflect the attack during gameplay, it should be counted as a reaction feat for that character.

However, a cutscene of a character reacting to Galan's DJ would be nice.
 
True. But as a former Sivir Main and a player of the game, I can assure you that the only way to defend against it is before Garen could plant his sword down. Any more than that and is close to impossible if not impossible.

And the only cutscene we have of a character reacting to that was Katarina who is completely taken by surprise by said attack.
 
I really want to find out how fast Xerath's abilities are in-game. Would there be any way to measure those?
 
Ok, possible speed scaling, literally ANY character can use the Zhonya's Hourglass to block ANY attack in-game the second before it hits them. Thoughts?
 
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