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Kyoko Sakura vs Carnage.

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Ok:

  • stretches hands*
AP: Kinda hard to determine. Carnage > Venom + Spiderman, but I can't access Spiderman's calc unfortunately. At the very least though, he's stronger than 2X higher than baseline. Kyoko on the other hand is halfway between an 8-B, possibly 8-A and a Low 7-B+, and apparently only needs X0.4 to reach Small Town Level+ and X3 to reach Town Level. In terms of sheer one on one strength, I'm inclined to say Carnage is superior

Speed: Equalised

LS and SS: Don't really matter

Range: Carnage has tens of meters with the extensions of his Symbiote. Hundreds of kilometers when stretched to maximum length, but that isn't very useful here, seeing as stretching that much makes him more vulnerable. Kyoko has kilometres of range, so she has the advantage in combat useful range. I think she prefers to get up close though.

Dura: Hard to say. Lowballing Carnage, he's at least 2x higher than baseline Small Town Level, while Kyoko is Small Town+ (almost 3X higher than baseline). So I'll say about even.

Stamina: Very high vs at least Superhuman. Going to take this with a grain of salt seeing as we don't have set stamina ratings, but Kyoko is vastly superior to Sayaka, who can continuously fight witches for several days without resting or cleansing her soul gem. Based on that, I'm inclined to say Kyoko has the stamina advantage.

Intelligence: One can think up creative ways of killing people, and thinks to morph his outfit into weaponry. The other is trained by someone who was able to outwit Homura, who has mentally had almost 10 years of experience (having done almost 100 resets, each one month long, by the time the PMMM main series timeline rolls along). Inclided to go for Sayaka here.

Weaknesses: Carnage is weak to sound and fire. I'm assuming we aren't using Carnage empowered by Darkhold here. Kyoko is brash, impulsive, lazy, and her strongest attack has the potential to kill her. Of the two, I'm thinking Carnage's is going to come up in this fight more.

The Important Stuff:

Kyoko has:

  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics - covered in AP, Dura and Stamina
  • Immortality (Type 2 and 6) - type 2 is very useful, as unless he destroys her soul gem, physical damage will not kill her. Type 6 IDK how it works
  • Magic - This is just the general "her abilities work by magic" right?
  • Skilled spear wielder - covered in Intelligence
  • Healing - at least Mid level. Costs stamina to use though.
  • Magic - this is in her profile twice, someone remove one of them.
  • Telekinesis - this is just for moving her spear around right? Still, it's useful, as she could use it to attack him when he thinks she is disarmed.
  • Transformation - is this just saying she can transform into her magical girl form..? Why is it even there then?
  • Telepathy - for talking to other magical girls, not useful
  • Weapon Creation and Enhanching - her AP is already covered.
  • Energy Projection - Nothing special about the energy I think, so just a ranged attack/
  • Fire Manipulation - one of his weaknesses (being "not as weak as the other symboiotes" does not mean it is "not a weakness" or else it wouldn't be there)
  • Duplication - she can make up to 6 clones iirc. These clones are all equally powerful as she is, so that easily makes up for the AP gap between them. So she can use them to confuse Carnage as to which is the real one, make them vanish and appear at will, etc. Probably one of her most useful abilities here.
  • Magic Sensor - I think she just senses magic. Unless Symbiotes have magical properties I don't remember, this is irrelevant.
  • Resistance to the following: Magic, Life Absorption, and Mind Manipulation, unconventional Soul Manipulation Resistance - Carnage doesn't use magic, life absorption could be useful against symbiote shenanigans, resistance to mind manipulation (both magical and physical in nature thanks to her body's nature) is very useful, and carnage doesn't use soul manipulation.
Carnage has:

  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics - covered in AP
  • Shapeshifting and Sizeshifting (Can restructure the Symbiote in various different ways, such as tentacles, transforming into clothes to disguise itself, or weapons such as axes and daggers) - a shapeshifting weapon makes it hard to fight in a spear fight against, but she's fought plenty of weird opponent witchs so meh. Potentially he could disguise himself as a civilian so that's a plus.
  • Precognition (Via Spider Sense) - ok, she's not catching him off guard with telekinetic spear attacks unless she can trap him in a cage of them or something.
  • Limited Reactive Evolution - based on the example, I doubt that will be useful here.
  • Absorption - uhh, I feel she could break free. Or create a clone and have them break her free.
  • Mind Manipulation - useless. Biologically speaking, it won't do anything because her body is just a mindless puppet, mentally speaking she fights witches who can drive hundreds of people into suicidal despair without problems
  • Can produce organic webbing - meh
  • Duplication - not sure how this works. Considering how symbiotes work though, I would assume his duplicates are weaker.
  • Possession - again, mind manip and her body's nature says no
  • Regenerationn (Mid to Low-High) - They'll both still die if she blows him up and burns the symbiote to ashes. It's also fast enough to regen if she leaves him alone after a "killing" blow, but slow enough to not keep up if she combos.
  • Can adhere to and climb nearly any surface - considering they are in SF, that's fairly useful. Though she's pretty mobile herself IIRC
  • The Symbiote can transmit itself through technology and wiring, Immunity to earthly diseases, poisons, and the Spider-Sense - none of this is useful.
All up:

Carnage Advantages: Higher AP in one on one, strong Regenerationn if she just uses her spear, precog and shapeshifting weaponry helps make up for the gap in intelligence/skill, higher mobility given the area

Kyoko Advantages: Clones easily close the AP and even give her the advantage, fire will do more damage to Carnage and mess with its Regenerationn abilities, type 2 immortality and healing means she isn't dying easily, much higher stamina might let her just outlast him, higher intelligence, completely nopes his more hax abilities, higher range could just let her spam fireballs.

Carnage would also likely want to take his time slowly torturing a little girl to death and causing her despair rather than outright going for the kill immediately, so she's probably got a better mindset for battle
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Carnage would also likely want to take his time slowly torturing a little girl to death and causing her despair rather than outright going for the kill immediately, so she's probably got a better mindset for battle
Click to expand...
Kyoko also doesn't usually take things seriously at first, if her initial encounter with Sayaka is anything to go by. If she doesn't lead with any of her fire attacks I think Carnage could put her down before she realizes she needs to use them.
 
Kyoko while willing to kill is dead serious and doesn't hold back. She was toying with Sayaka, but that's because she wasn't trying to kill her. See the battle against Oktavia, Mami in Different Story, Homura in Homura's revenge, or against the Wraiths during the Wraith Arc.
 
Even so, how likely is she to lead with fire? And even if she would I definitely feel like the Precog would help him out enough to avoid a lethal attack.
 
It's a city block sized explosion bruh. And her fire attacks are basically anything that isn't impaling someone with a spear
 
Those aren't Low 7-C explosions tho. They are actually way smaller than Kyoko's.

Iirc the type 6 works via possessing a different body. But i don't think that it will do much except messing with Carnage's possession shenanigans
 
From what I could tell in the fight against Oktavia she still mostly relied on her spear until the very last moment at which point the explosion looked pretty comparable to the two missiles at once that Carnage took point blank.

The other fights you mentioned seem to be from the manga and frankly you can miss me with that gay sh** ovo
 
So, the moment she decided "I have to kill her" opposed to "I need to bring her back". And if Oktavia has Mid regen on top of type 2,3,6,8 immortality and she died, doubt that Carnage would live trough it.

The missiles exploded behind Carnage, not right in front of him. And i'm really not seeing how the explosion of those reach a hundred metres in diameter.
 
Now that I think about it, Laciel didn't count some facts for Kletus.

Such as he has years of experience fighting the likes of Spidy, Venom, Agent Venom and varies of ther superheroes that complety outclass the main magical girls of PMMM in term of skill.

Or that his clones are almost as strong as him, since they can hold their own agaisnt Agent Venom and Scarlet Spider.

Or that fireballs are nothing compared to literally eat a grenade.

Or that they are almost bloodlusted, so they are not going to play around.
 
I don't mention what isn't on the profile.

Also, a 9-A (at best) grenade is nothing to 7-C fireballs, or 7-C dura, so your point is moot.

You said "almost bloodlusted". I took that too mean serious. A serious Cassidy is still one who's going to want to torture a little girl.
 
Except it does mention that he's fought the likes of Spidey and Venom on his profile.

And while it doesn't say on his profile that the duplicants are as strong as him, it also doesn't say that they're weaker.
 
I mean, Kyoko lost to Mami but fought her in a even match. Mami defeated Homura who quite literally know her better than she does herself. So she is really not outclassed in experience.

Speaking of Carnage's duplication, is this instant? Kyoko's is.

Also remember that Kyoko's dura is >>> her AP
 
Compared to the amount of times that Carnage has fought avengers, mutants and other heroes who has decades of experience, pretty sure she's outclassed.

IIRC, he can do this by simply tore apart limbs of himself and let them regrow.
 
Homura also has a decade of experience. And it isn't just being experienced, it's knowing perfectly the person she fought and still losing that is a testament to said skills.
 
The Wraith Arc? I can give you the links if you want the full thing, otherwise I have the two scans where it shows the regen neg
 
This thread has officially lasted longer than Swamp Thing vs Homura
 
She is actually becoming 7-C via being >>>>> Oktavia who is >>>>>>> Sayaka whose AP is >>> her dura which scales from Elly who is 6.6 kilotons. So at least in the mid end of the tier.

In fact her AP will be "At least 7-C" and her durability "At least 7-C, likely higher".

Here is the thread with the full revision.
 
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