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Kumagawa's Screw Spawning and "Passive" All Fiction

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Was reading through some Medaka Box threads, and these two things caught my eye.

Screw Spawning:
So, in Kumagawa's profile, it says that he can spawn his screws directly inside people, using this scan as an example . Now, like most things Medaka Box, I doubt it's actually explained how he does that, but I don't think it's just making them appear inside someone's body.

For one, he did that while he had All Fiction, and, in fact, that was done immediately after he did his famous "erase time" move. The impression I got was that he just erased time and blitzed her, just like he did with the others right before that.

Although I guess both could be valid interpretations, him being able to just make Bookmaker appear inside someone doesn't really go well with some things that happen in the main story. For example, his fight with Medaka after he got Bookmaker back. He didn't have All Fiction then, and he didn't manage to hit her with a screw, he even mentions that he couldn't find an opening to do so. In fact, he had to ask her to let him hit the screw, which she did. If he could just make it appear inside her, I don't see why he'd have to do that.

In fact, the only other time I remember him doing something similar was when he fought the Style girl that dismantled their plane, and he had All Fiction then.

Passive Resurrection:
I see many people in both Misogi and Medaka's matches claiming that the All Fiction resurrection ability is passive, and just kinda heals them by itself, but I don't think that's the case either.

So, as everyone knows, when Misogi dies he gets sent to Ajimu's pocket dimension room. Zenkichi went there as well when he died (not exactly the same place, but you get the point). Thing is, this shows that Kumagawa wasn't really dead. Like, he was dead, but not, like . . . dead.

What I mean is, his mind/soul/consciousness still exist after he dies. And, if so, couldn't it be that he just activates his All Fiction from Ajimu's room? His disembodied consciousness still exists, so his resurrection doesn't necessarily have to be an automatic thing, since he himself could very well be the one who does it.

And, really, that seems to be the case. For example, when Kumagawa decides to try getting Bookmaker back from Ajimu, he makes Chougasaki kill him, and takes a while to resurrect. He even mentions that he'll only come back after a week, and that the guy should hide his body in the meantime. Hell, when he's talking to Ajimu, he prepares to leave after she refuses to give him his Minus back, and does resurrect only after leaving the room through the door.

This seems to imply pretty heavily that Kumagawa is the one that activates the resurrection. Leaving the room seems to be what triggers All Fiction.

If that's the case, a possible weakness for him and Medaka would be to just destroy their mind/souls/consciousness, so that they can't bring themselves back.

What ya'll think?
 
Screw Spawning. Well we already know he can spawn screws in the most random places, out of thin air (not in his hands), from the ground and there are 2 cases where it looks pretty much as it is spawning from the ppl themselves. And please do not use Medaka vs Kumagawa for anything. Anything about Medaka is just thicc PIS. In that very fight Medaka won a fight while being equal to her opponent. So she was at the same time > and = to Kumagawa. It does not make sense, but at the same time it does cus plot says so. In that same fight he could have used Leg Eating Forest too, but he didn't.

Resurrection. Well i will have to find you the scan but i did this a while back, and got the passive All Fiction added. I will give you the link to the thread with all the links and arguments there. I cannot seem to find it atm, but it is essentially a scan of Ajimu stating that "it's not that Kumagawa doesn't die, it's that he can't die", as in he will always come back. And the brain washer said that killing Kumagawa over and over would be an endless process and that it would break his mind. If he could choose not to come back at all it wouldn't break his mind, it would only do so if he's "forced" to come back. Also no one here assumes Kumagawa or Medaka can come back from not having a soul.
 
Not actually stated anywhere he's spawning directly inside them, is it? It's a pretty big thing, so I don't think we should just assume. Regarding Medaka's plot armor, I don't think it'd make a difference, simply because she'd win whether he hit her or not. He says himself that he couldn't get an opening to hit her, that wouldn't happen if he could just spawn it inside her.

He didn't do that against Kei Munakata either iirc.

I've seen the "can't die" scan, it's from she's talking with Zenkichi after he died. Still, I don't see how that implies it's automatic. Same for the "break the mind" thing, she could kill him enough times until he decided to not resurrect anymore.

Point is, it's clearly not automatic, he can control it, as shown when he decides to stay in Ajimu's room for quite some time to get Bookmaker back. If it just forces him back to life as you're claiming, he wouldn't be able to just stay there. It's also made clear that he chooses when to get out.

Ajimu mentions that she brought Zenkichi's "consciousness" to the room. I mentioned soul because that's what people's consciousness is in some verses, but things like "mind" fit as well. If their conscious minds have to choose when to come back, someone could stop them from doing so by annihilating their consciousness, with telepathy, soul attacks, etc.
 
That kind of mentality is wrong. Asking "why didn't he use it in every single fight?" is plain wrong. He can do it, doesn't mean it's 100% in character for him to use it 100% of the fights right off the bat.

Medaka's plot is more than just "she wins". Ajimu stated she could do a lot of things, she still did not. It is baseless to assume that the only reason she wins is because everyone will throw everything at her and it will just not work. Again things regarding Medaka are iffy at best since we're both assuming "The hero doesn't PIS" and "the hero does PIS" and upgrades/downgrades cannot happen from assumptions.

As she says it's not that he "doesn't die" (implying that he CAN always come back), it's that he "cannot die" (Implying that it is impossible for him to choose not to revive). It is possible for him to stall the revival. And Ajimu's room is not a real place. It's literally people's heart and Ajimu is there cus omnipresence FTW. The dream world is just symbolic, him leaving the door is symbolic it's implying he's going back to the physical world (same as how Medaka revived after her heart stopped, she also left the door). Ajimu does state it pretty clearly that Kumagawa cannot put an end to the revival cycles.

And about the death cycles, there is a problem. If the death cycles were to be dependent on Kumagawa's will, it wouldn't be an "endless" death cycle. It would only take around 10 deaths at most to break someone's will to the point where he believes he cannot get out.

So the point is he can choose "when" to get out, but not "whether" to get out. He will get out, he can just stall it.

And again "we do not assume he can come back from soul destruction as of right now". He has never returned from that level of destruction and it is therefore not assumed he can. If that is your question/problem with the ability, do not worry that is not the case.
 
He didn't use in the fights that actually mattered in the least, the ones that he didn't have All Fiction, and couldn't insta-screw the enemy by erasing time, which is probably what he did in those instances where the screw just appears inside people. Again, it's not stated he's spawning them inside people, and he has a known ability that could produce the same effect, so we prob should go with the latter.

Medaka has been affected by enemy skills many times, and still won, of course. Him hitting her shouldn't made a difference at all, and, again, he himself admitted he couldn't get an opening.

His body can obviously die, it does all the time, but his mind will always go to that room where he can resurrect himself. So, yeah, I guess he can't really die, I've mentioned that in the op. Thing is, for him to come back, there clearly has to be some action from him. No real indication he'd just be yanked out of the room if enough time passed. If his consciousness is gone, he can't just activate the death erasure.

About the death cycle, I went to read the chapter again, and "will" mentioned isn't even Kuma's. They were talking about how the ones killing him would fall into despair after killing him for too long, with him always resurrecting, but that this wouldn't happen since puppets have no heart and can't have their wills broken. Which ended up not working because the one controlling them didn't have that will herself. They don't seem to actually talk Kumagawa's own state of mind on that occasion.
 
Screw Spawning:

So, in Kumagawa's profile, it says that he can spawn his screws directly inside people, using this scan as an example . Now, like most things Medaka Box, I doubt it's actually explained how he does that, but I don't think it's just making them appear inside someone's body.

For one, he did that while he had All Fiction, and, in fact, that was done immediately after he did his famous "erase time" move. The impression I got was that he just erased time and blitzed her, just like he did with the others right before that.


Pretty much this. Either that or he simply spawned screw above her when she was lying down.
 
I agree the case of Passive Regenerationn; it does not looks passive from the evidence provided in the OP.

For srew spamming, it is either case. To me, it feel likely that he would create directly with his powers like Subjective Reality (still need to be added) then finding screws near to speed blitz into screw spamming.
 
There are cases where Kumagawa almost overtly spawns the screws just by visualizing them. The one that comes to mind is when he spawns screws to attack without needing to know where they are, just because, from his point of view, anyone who would exploit blinding him already has a weakness he doesn't even need to confirm by sight. He also did land a screw on her, in fact, he openned the battle by spawning her full of screws.

The second one is ultimately semantics, although the implicitation is that he must acitvate his ressurection eventually, even if he can stay dead for a while
 
Kumagawa can make screws spawn from the floor. Can make screws out of thin air. Making screws inside people shouldnt be any different. And has done something that can be interpretated that way so.... I don't see any issues with it, really.

Nothing to say regarding the resurrection.
 
@Impaler: Yes, he can spawn them in mid-air like that, but not necessarily inside people. He also didn't actually tag Medaka there, she caught all of those screws before they pierced her, even one with her mouth, so, no, he couldn't really hit her, that's why he had to ask for her to let him.
 
InfiniteSped said:
@Impaler: Yes, he can spawn them in mid-air like that, but not necessarily inside people. He also didn't actually tag Medaka there, she caught all of those screws before they pierced her, even one with her mouth, so, no, he couldn't really hit her, that's why he had to ask for her to let him.
Mid air

Inside the ground

On his hand

What makes inside people so special?
 
If he didn't go out of his way to say how he couldn't hit Medaka with it, I'd agree with you. But he couldn't hit her and had to ask for permission. He also didn't do it against the Hammerspace dude.

He only ever did it while he had All Fiction, which let's him do the same thing with an ability we already have confirmation for.
 
He also never erased any human outside of that time with Zenkichi. If he had never done that would you be arguing that he can erase abstract things, but not humans?
 
If he went out of his way to say "Dammit, I can't use my All Fiction to erase other people!", then, yes, I would.
 
I'm pretty sure he asked Medaka to let him hit her since the conditions of their match was make the other admit defeat

If Medaka let herself get bookmaker'd and lost she would have no choice but to admit defeat
 
InfiniteSped said:
If he went out of his way to say "Dammit, I can't use my All Fiction to erase other people!", then, yes, I would.
In a sense, he did imply that. When he said he needed Bookmaker to win against Medaka. Implying that All Fiction wouldn't work on Medaka.
 
Paul Frank said:
I'm pretty sure he asked Medaka to let him hit her since the conditions of their match was make the other admit defeat
If Medaka let herself get bookmaker'd and lost she would have no choice but to admit defeat
He sucker punched her with a bunch of screws from the start, then stated he couldn't find an opening to hit, he was clearly trying to actually hit her. If he could just make it appear inside her, her superior speed wouldn't mean much and he could just get the hit with no issues.
 
Again he had to make her admit defeat of her own will. If he just spawned screws in her and bookmaker'd her like that there is no way she would admit defeat and he knew that
 
Firephoenixearl said:
InfiniteSped said:
If he went out of his way to say "Dammit, I can't use my All Fiction to erase other people!", then, yes, I would.
In a sense, he did imply that. When he said he needed Bookmaker to win against Medaka. Implying that All Fiction wouldn't work on Medaka.
I always assumed he was aware of her "Hero-ness invincibility", and thought that Bookmaker could bring her down to his level and nullify that advantage.
 
Paul Frank said:
Again he had to make her admit defeat of her own will. If he just spawned screws in her and bookmaker'd her like that there is no way she would admit defeat and he knew that
Then why was he trying to hit her with screws? Even going as far as to bait her into a handshake just to attack with screws while she's distracted?
 
If I recall, he did it at first out of actual malice and frustration. It's been a while since I read the Medaka vs Kumagawa fight, but I'll give it a read for context. Although before hand, I will say that she has the one skill that let's her move out of the way of attacks without her even knowing about them. I know it was later retconned to overtly not be able to react before something happens, but the scene with the car crash and him surviving it despite not knowing about it is a clear example of moving before it happened.
 
Reacting before things happen is basically precog though. I only remember it being automatic reactions, his body moves without him thinking, nothing about him reacting before things happen. The car instance could have just been his body instantly reacting after the crash started.
 
I think the OP seems reasonable, and that does sounds like Instinctive reactions rather than precognition.
 
Paul Frank said:
Pretty sure fire and Iap are still arguing this though
Yeah, their topic is about the screw spamming which is ambigous.

The resurrect point looks completely valid from the OP.
 
I made the changes regarding the resurrection. I am willing to wait to see fire and Iap's inputs for while to decide on the change regarding the screw spamming.
 
The main issue I have with Kumagawa doing time stop blitz instead of screw spawn for Jakago is that he acts very differently. When he is doing time stop blitz, they do the rush past thing. But he doesn't do that there. Kumagawa isn't like DIO who will stop time, perform an action, and then move back to his original place. There is also the example of him just sticking his hand out and book makering the entire squad

The Medaka thing is just PIS at worst I'm pretty sure, and at best she just knows how to deal with it. Kumagawa does screw spawn by visualizing their weak points and spawning screws in them, but his implication is that Medaka doesn't have any obviously exploitable physical weak points.
 
PaChi2 said:
Kumagawa can make screws spawn from the floor. Can make screws out of thin air. Making screws inside people shouldnt be any different. And has done something that can be interpretated that way so.... I don't see any issues with it, really.

Nothing to say regarding the resurrection.
This makes sense to me.

I am uncertain whether or not Kumagawa's resurrection is automatic.
 
Yeah I forgot about the Mukanata thing. He didn't even know he still had all fiction and was even surprised when he came back, I'm pretty sure that kinda proves it's automatic
 
  • Appears in Ajimu's room*
"Man, I'm truly dead this time. Sigh, it was good while it lasted.

...

...

Might as well try though . . .

Damn, actually worked!"
 
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