Kumagawa's Screw Spawning and "Passive" All Fiction

[Paul_Frank]

Yeah I just read the chapter to check again. That doesn't happen. Everyone is just sad about him dying and talking about how not even Ajimu can revive the dead then Kumagawa stands up and goes lolallfiction. And when asked about how he used it if he traded it in he just says he doesn't know.

It's chapter 121

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

>lolallfiction

I think you mean lolfictio kek

 

[InfiniteSped]

That doesn't really sound like it proves anything, but I'll read it myself later.

 

[Elizhaa]

@PaulFrank

So, doesn't the chapter disprove automatic resurrection?

I honestly think resurrection is semi-passive like though-based because there are stories about mortally wounded individuals been conscious for a few seconds before death. So, it definitely likely a though regarding resurrection is needed to resurrect just like thoughts are needed for his reality warping powers.

Automatic resurrection seems like a big jump to me that it almost looks like Type 8 Immortality.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The chapter is what prove it. Since Kumagawa didn't know he had this version of All Fiction before resurrecting.

 

[Paul_Frank]

How does it disprove it? He didn't even know he had all fiction, him and everyone else thought he lost it when he traded it in and that he permanently died but then he stands back up and even he doesn't know how he managed to use all fiction after he got book maker back.

What would it even be type 8 based on

 

[Elizhaa]

Wait, so he didn't have All fiction or did he have a weaken version of it because I am hearing two different version?

 

[Paul_Frank]

He traded all fiction in for bookmaker so he lost it.

After dying though he revives and ends up with a weaker version of all fiction

 

[QuasiYuri]

Chronologically: He has All Fiction offered by Ajimu prior the manga - Ajimu took a part of it, leaving him only a weaker version (the one we are talking about) - Ajimu give him what she took + Unskilled, remaking the original All Fiction + April Fiction - EoS Kumagawa possess Non-Fiction which is All Fiction but stronger (can now erase erased things).

 

[The_Causality]

Agree with Yuri, Paul, Lapitus and Fire

In the sucessor Arc, Kumagawa doesn't have All Fiction, he was supposed to die, but he came back thanks to a downgraded All Fiction without even knowing why, and Ajimu was not aware about the fact that he still has AF, Munakata tell her later, he resurrected without going in Najimi's room.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Just went to read it, and I don't see how that proves anything. Kei asks how he could still have All Fiction after giving it to Ajimu, then Kuma says that he doesn't know, which he didn't at that point iirc. Just means he was not aware of why he still had it, and that he probably didn't know he had it until after he died.

Doesn't really prove he was automatically resurrected. He could have very well tried to use All Fiction from Ajimu's room (cuz why the hell not?), and it just happened to work. The Chougasaki instance already shows that it's not automatic, so I'd say him just activating it while dead is the more reasonable assumption. It even took him a few minutes to resurrect

 

[Paul_Frank]

Agree with Yuri, Paul, Lapitus and Fire

In the sucessor Arc, Kumagawa doesn't have All Fiction, he was supposed to die, but he came back thanks to a downgraded All Fiction without even knowing why, and Ajimu was not aware about the fact that he still has AF, Munakata tell her later, he resurrected without going in Najimi's room.

 

[InfiniteSped]

When does he say that?

 

[The_Causality]

Chougasaki's instance doesn't prove that AF isn't automatic, the fact that he need a week to come back is because he didn't even have All Fiction when he died, and it make a long time to take back AF (when Gagamaru vs Hinokage was finished, Kuma was still trying to take away AF, he didn't actually have it)

He was probably not in Najimi's room since Munakata needed to inform Najimi to that, if Kuma was in Najimi's room she would automaticly know that he has AF, if he aren't in najimi's rooom, the fact that he needed to activate it is debunked.

But well, i have exams to prepare so I'll let the other argue

 

[QuasiYuri]

He could have very well tried to use All Fiction from Ajimu's room (cuz why the hell not?), and it just happened to work.

Uh, it's more a theory without any proof than anything else.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Chougasaki's instance doesn't prove that AF isn't automatic, the fact that he need a week to come back is because he didn't even have All Fiction when he died, and it make a long time to take back AF (when Gagamaru vs Hinokage was finished, Kuma was still trying to take away AF, he didn't actually have it)
He was probably not in Najimi's room since Munakata needed to inform Najimi to that, if Kuma was in Najimi's room she would automaticly know that he has AF, if he aren't in najimi's rooom, the fact that he needed to activate it is debunked.

But well, i have exams to prepare so I'll let the other argue

Nope, he had AF and was trying to get Bookmaker back.

Also, when I say "Ajimu's room", I just mean the place so that people can get what I mean. Ajimu left the place after she got unsealed, so her not knowing shouldn't change anything

 

[InfiniteSped]

He could have very well tried to use All Fiction from Ajimu's room (cuz why the hell not?), and it just happened to work.

Uh, it's more a theory without any proof than anything else.

So is automatic ressurection.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Automatic resurrection has more proof behind it then he gave up all fiction and decided to try to use it after dying anyway even though he didn't go to Ajimu's room

 

[InfiniteSped]

Proof he didn't go to the room? If he did, there's no reason he wouldn't try All Fiction. That's more reasonable than just automatic resurrection when the Chougasaki instance already shows that's not how it works

 

[The_Causality]

@Infinite Speed Oh yeah, he has All Fiction this time, but this argument still make no real sense, it taken a few minute to come usually back, if it taken a week, then it disproves the fact that he could come back in minute, but it hasn't. It taken a week because he probably chosen the moment when he came back and not make his resurrection automatic.

She actually doesn't "leave this place", she exist inside everyone's heart, sealed or not, Najimi was still inside even when she trained Zenkichi and Emukae

 

[Paul_Frank]

Pretty sure you need proof he did go to the room

But there is the fact that Munakata had to go report to Ajimu, who would already know that Kumagawa had all fiction and resurrected if he entered her room. The fact that Kumagawa didn't comment on entering the room like he did previous times. And neither did Ajimu.

 

[InfiniteSped]

It took a week because he only activated All Fiction after a week. It generally takes less because he doesn't usually stay there for that long. We've seen that he chooses when to come back, and that his mind still exists even after his brain explodes, so it's far more reasonable to assume that he just resurrects himself rather than the power doing it on its own somehow.

 

[The_Causality]

^This also make no real sense, how he can active All Fiction after a week when he no longer have it? Or he "programmed" AF to resurrect him in a week? It's more a theory since he never do that

So disagree with The Resurrection with Activation.

 

[QuasiYuri]

He didn't have All Fiction when he came back (more exactly, the downgraded version never was used before Munakata's fight) from Gagamaru killing him.

 

[InfiniteSped]

^This also make no real sense, how he can active All Fiction after a week when he no longer have it? Or he "programmed" AF to resurrect him in a week? It's more a theory since he never do that
So disagree with The Resurrection with Activation.

It really makes no sense. When he resurrected after getting Bookmaker, Ajimu had All Fiction, so there was no way for him to come back whether it was automatic or not. Either Ajimu resurrected him herself, or the writer just kinda forgot about that detail.

Regardless, he still had All Fiction for most of the time when he was there, and it's shown that he'd only resurrect when he chose to. It's not automatic.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Or it's just him being able to resurrect this way too.

Which is already implied to be a possible way to resurrect.

 

[InfiniteSped]

What way?

 

[QuasiYuri]

By just being in the classroom thing and go out of it. It's implied to be a way to resurrect since you go here basically each time you "die", Medaka is also seen passing the door of the classroom when she "resurrect" via her style.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Yes, he's also went there when Iihiko beat him up even if he didn't die. Ajimu says it's "inside his heart" or something like that. Even then, they probably need a way to actually get out of there if they die. He clearly needed All Fiction to come back after Kei killed him. In that Bookmaker case, I think the writer just didn't think much about it. Either that, or Ajimu helped him out.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unsubscribe from this thread. You can send me a message when you have reached a conclusion.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Well, since it was shown for Zenkichi and Medaka I don't think it's Ajimu helping him or the writer just not thinking about it as anything to do with this. We have no proof of this.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Medaka had her own way of coming back, and Zenkichi's is not explained, I think. I assumed she brought him back too.

Kuma himself clearly needs All Fiction though. If he could just always resurrect himself without, that scene when he comes back after Kei kills him wouldn't make any sense.

 

[InfiniteSped]

In Zenkichi's case, Kuma mentions that he'd have brought him back anyway, but was surprised that he had his vision back.

Then Kuma said that was Ajimu's work. Not clear if he meant just the eyesight or the resurrection too, but I think the latter is a reasonable assumption.

 

[QuasiYuri]

If you talk about their fight, Zenkichi being "dead" was because of Ajimu stopping his heart anyway.

 

[InfiniteSped]

From what I can tell, he was going to die due to shock, so she preemptively brought his mind to her room. Even if it was her who stopped his heart, she seems to be the one who brought him back as well.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Anyway, this doesn't have that much to do with the topic here.

My point is, Kumagawa clearly has to activate All Fiction himself. I don't see any indication that it's automatic, and that instance with Kei doesn't really prove it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

For the case of AF being automatical, I still can't see how it would not be like this with the arguments already said in this thread.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Which ones?

 

[Yusuke138]

I also agree with Causality, Yuri, Paul, Lapitus and Fire.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also agree with Causality, Yuri, Paul, Lapitus and Fire.

The point for autommic-resurrection for all fiction make it sound like Immortslity Type 4:

4: Immortality via reincarnation or Resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.

This point is way more likely by Occam's Razor that resurrection that the resurrect is thought-based than automatic.