KT's Adventure Time Revisions Part 12.5: Multiversal Multigoonal

[Damage3245]

The thing is, we have confirmation of magic specifically being on the scale of the multiverse as a whole from the other statements. So there we have the statement, a range confirmation, and consistency of scale for said statement when compared to similar fears in the setting.

So in my view, the statement in the context of the overall verse is enough to be used as a 2-A statement.

I'll get through the other feats in the OP soon.

You're basically saying I'm affecting the universe by stepping to the right because now I'm displacing my position in the universe and that can count as me "affecting reality" no matter how insignificant

The word "affect" without any context can be vague, yeah.

If a meteor was heading towards the planet and the only statement we had was 'the impact of the meteor is going to affect the entire planet' then that's vague enough that I wouldn't automatically label it a 5-B meteor.

 

[Planck69]

The word "affect" without any context can be vague, yeah.

If a meteor was heading towards the planet and the only statement we had was 'the impact of the meteor is going to affect the entire planet' then that's vague enough that I wouldn't automatically label it a 5-B meteor.

Thats an asinine comparison. Affecting an entire multiverse, even partially, is not divisible into lower tiers. A meteor does affect the planet only slightly but we can calculate it to value that's a small fraction of Planet level.

 

[KingTempest]

The word "affect" without any context can be vague, yeah.

"I'm going to destroy a landmark so thoroughly that reality itself is going to feel it" ≠ "I'm going to leave such little destruction that everywhere will feel it"

If a meteor was heading towards the planet and the only statement we had was 'the impact of the meteor is going to affect the entire planet' then that's vague enough that I wouldn't automatically label it a 5-B meteor.

This is such a bad example.

We don't give 5-B for significantly affecting planets because planet effects can be calced.

• Shaking it is Low 6-B.
• Melting it can be Low 5-B.
• Stopping its rotation is 5-C.
• Destroying its surface is High 6-A.
• Splitting it is low 5-B.
• Vaporizing it is 5-B.
• Freezing it is High 6-A.

Affecting a space-time continuum can't be calced.

And you keep quoting the tiering system but you didn't even look at what makes something 5-B

Characters or objects that can create/destroy a planet.

This doesn't need significantly affecting, unlike a tier 2 construct.

When it comes to tier 2, affecting a tier 2 construct like the universe or the multiverse doesn't fall under the same logic as 5-B because of the concept of tier 2 itself.

 

[Damage3245]

Affecting a space-time continuum can't be calced.

Is it possible for someone to affect part of a space-time continuum and not all of it?

(Sorry for the brief replies, I'm currently on the move and may have to stop posting soon)

 

[KingTempest]

Is it possible for someone to affect part of a space-time continuum and not all of it?

No

 

[Planck69]

Is it possible for someone to affect part of a space-time continuum and not all of it?

The default assumption from High 3-A going forward is that significantly affecting a structure with one's power allows you to scale to that full structure's tier.

You can affect part of a space-time continuum but that has to be specified.

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay Damage you're fine with the low 2-C stuff right cause even that's just as consistent and I get 2-A is a "high" rating but I feel like you're reaching too far into this and using being "thorough" as an excuse here. We have already established this below

Nobody said destroying Bubblegum is a 2-A feat. It's support he knows about the other dimensions in the world and support he's capable of affecting them with an energy blast

This isn't a good debunk. Darren has the range to affect all realities and he blatantly says he can affect reality

and despite this Darren isn't the only evidence for 2-A there's several things that you haven't even begun to scratch yet if you're going to be in opposition of 2-A and even then I feel your opposition to Darren's statements are pretty shaky, heck from your questioning about our tiering system and about what significantly affecting the universe means it seems that you're trying to tackle something that goes beyond adventure time and stems to our tiering system which still isn't a problem in this case considering Darren's statements and showing he can indeeed affect all realities.


I'm in full agreeance with 2-A and I don't think its a stretch, Mitch said it best here

I don’t really see the problem with Tier 5 to 2 Finn

Finn literally jumps into a black hole and is fine, so that can be the main form of scaling. Finn survives the nuking of a deadworld. Finn messes up Orgalorg, who is the breaker of worlds and existed before time was even a thing. Finn is stronger than Farmworld Finn, who can hurt the Scarab. And that Scarab broke Prismo, is a cosmic entity, and survived attacks from GOLBetty. I also still don’t agree characters like the Lich, Orgalorg, and Hunson are weaker than a random planet destroying robot. FP can nuke the planet at her peak, then she gets a true elemental form that also has that power, and Finn can fight her. Finn also regularly bullies the Ice King, who can freeze the Earth.

Like I don’t see the outlier here… Adventure Time is a goofy ass verse where Humans can tank black holes and fight primordial Gods… Like Finn would scale to whatever rating tanking a Black Hole gives you

 

[Planck69]

Also, I feel like one should have some familiarity with how Tier 2 works before arguing the validity of the feat itself rather than the scaling and consistency.

 

[Damage3245]

and despite this Darren isn't the only evidence for 2-A there's several things that you haven't even begun to scratch yet if you're going to be in opposition of 2-A

Well, yeah, I said I'd be addressing the feats one at a time. What's the problem with that?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with what Planck said; unlike Tier 5 feats; Tier 2 and above are pretty all or nothing and even significantly effecting a timeline is Tier 2. Like even simply shaking a timeline is Low 2-C unless one can prove it's due to chain reactions (Which shouldn't be a standard assumption without hard evidence)

 

[Dalesean027]

Well, yeah, I said I'd be addressing the feats one at a time. What's the problem with that?

Exactly this is the problem with that

Also, I feel like one should have some familiarity with how Tier 2 works before arguing the validity of the feat itself rather than the scaling and consistency.

You're calling Darren's statement into question without being familiar with how significantly affecting the universe or several results in said tier in this case with it specifically being about destruction so like I said (qouting because im too lazy to retype it)

your questioning about our tiering system and about what significantly affecting the universe means it seems that you're trying to tackle something that goes beyond adventure time and stems to our tiering system which still isn't a problem in this case considering Darren's statements and showing he can indeeed affect all realities.

Like the stuff we're stuck on with Darren rn isn't even an adventure time related thing you're just questioning what it means to significantly affect a universe or larger sized structure so I feel we can move on from it to the other points

I've got characters who are low 2-C from compressing all of time into a single point, something like that is even significantly affecting a universe. There's plenty of ways to do so that's why im not seeing where your confusion is coming from regarding this

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with what Planck said; unlike Tier 5 feats; Tier 2 and above are pretty all or nothing and even significantly effecting a timeline is Tier 2. Like even simply shaking a timeline is Low 2-C unless one can prove it's due to chain reactions (Which shouldn't be a standard assumption without hard evidence)

I guess I'm the only one troubled by the lack of context then.

Darren says he'll "affect all realities".

There are specific scenarios we accept as being comparable to creating or destroying realities.

We don't know if Darren fulfills any of these scenarios because we don't know to what extent he'll affect them.

But because he said he'd affect other realities, we just assume that what he'll do will be on the same level as destroying it creating all of these realities?

If this is how Tier 2 works then fair enough but that seems really vague to me.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I am still at work, but will point out it is possible to target a singular universe with its timeline being affected without necessarily affecting the rest of the universes ie. Only affecting that particular universe with time included.


However, I am technically still at work and would look at the evidence after my shift is over as said earlier in a different thread.

 

[KingTempest]

There are specific scenarios we accept as being comparable to creating or destroying realities.

Specific that we have on the tiering system page*

I've seen creating, destroying, merging, distorting, shaking, encompassing, being, sustaining, etc. The page only lists 4

 

[KingTempest]

I am still at work, but will point out it is possible to target a singular universe with its timeline being affected without necessarily affecting the rest of the universes ie. Only affecting that particular universe with time included.


However, I am technically still at work and would look at the evidence after my shift is over as said earlier in a different thread.

No I agree. I'm saying that the fact of the matter is that he can affect at the very least, 1 space-time, and with his magic's effects, all of them.

The effects of the magic would either scale to him or scale to the people I listed

 

[Damage3245]

Specific that we have on the tiering system page*

I've seen creating, destroying, merging, distorting, shaking, encompassing, being, sustaining, etc. The page only lists 4

Sure, but from Darren's statement alone, I don't know if he fulfills any of the ones you've listed.

I'm not being pedantic to hold up the thread or anything, I'm just analysing each feat in the OP in turn. I can move onto the next feat to speed this up a bit since I think we've hit an impasse on Darren's statement.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm fine w/ that

 

[KLOL506]

Specific that we have on the tiering system page*

I've seen creating, destroying, merging, distorting, shaking, encompassing, being, sustaining, etc. The page only lists 4

They all fall under "significantly affecting".

3D rules have no say over 4D constructs and higher. It's why you can't downscale from a Tier 2 or Tier 1 feat to a lower tier than that by division.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm fine w/ that

Okay, I'm out right now but as soon as I get home I'll respond to the next feat.

 

[KingTempest]

Now that I see that there's more staff members who have an eye on this thread, I need to know if something qualifies.

The Clock Titans smacking each other is what creates the passage of time throughout the multiverse. Like them dealing physical force on each other creates the passage of time.


How would we quantify this

 

[Floxy178]

I think it looks fine

 

[ssgengar]

I mean while I understand being pedantic to a degree in a situation that involves a tier 2 upgrade, the context here is pretty damn straight forward and consistent imo

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Now that I see that there's more staff members who have an eye on this thread, I need to know if something qualifies.

The Clock Titans smacking each other is what creates the passage of time throughout the multiverse. Like them dealing physical force on each other creates the passage of time.


How would we quantify this

If they give time to the entire multiverse, this should be a 2-A feat imo. Low 2-C otherwise.

 

[KingTempest]

If they give time to the entire multiverse, this should be a 2-A feat imo. Low 2-C otherwise.

Interesting.

Well that supports the comet's power then

 

[KingTempest]

I completely forgot to note this.

Ice King's Crown (not the Ice King, but his crown. He doesn't scale to the full yield of the crown) is powered by one of the gems that fuel the Enchiridion, and give it the power to go throughout the multiverse, and give it the power to affect the multiverse to the scale that the Farmworld Finn, and the power to enact judgement on the multiverse and eventually destroy it in its entirety.

This same gem empowered Magwood (who Evergreen fought and took hits from) and fuels the capability to utilize Wish Magic (which can body reality), although doesn't fully scale to the wish magic but it's support for the Enchiridion scaling.

Evergreen'd scale, which means the Catalyst Comet scales for killing him and the other elementals.

There is a chance that Patience St. Pim scales, since the magic of the current time is superior to the magic prior to the bomb.

Elemental, S8E8

It was a non‐magic world back then, so our powers were limited.

Which'd scale to the upper echelon of magic goobers

 

[Damage3245]

@KingTempest Please change my vote to neutral.

I can't vote in favor of it because I'm not convinced by what I've seen here but I'm not as invested in opposing it anymore. I'd much rather be on speaking terms with you again.

 

[Zabazab]

There is a chance that Patience St. Pim scales, since the magic of the current time is superior to the magic prior to the bomb.

This only refers to the 20th century (and possibly a period of several millenia prior), as Ooo goes through periods of high magic and low magic, similar to ice ages. It's very likely that 66 million years ago was just a magical period similar to the magical period brought about by the Mushroom Bomb.

Elementals should probably still scale to their incarnations if they're both in a magical period though, especially the enhanced Elementals.

 

[KingTempest]

This only refers to the 20th century (and possibly a period of several millenia prior), as Ooo goes through periods of high magic and low magic, similar to ice ages. It's very likely that 66 million years ago was just a magical period similar to the magical period brought about by the Mushroom Bomb.

Elementals should probably still scale to their incarnations if they're both in a magical period though, especially the enhanced Elementals.

Post mushroom bomb the whole concept of magic was imploded into earth. There was magic back in the Cretaceous time, but it wasn't as much as there is now.

Q: Is Adventure Time set in post-apocalyptic Earth.

A: Mmmhmm, The Land of Ooo is what Earth has become after The Great Mushroom War. Everything’s irradiated and mutated.. that’s why magic exists and Princess Bubblegum’s made out of gum and Finn has little dots for eyes. They’re all mutants. That’s also why Finn and Jake find a lot of cool junk underground.. or under the water like in the Business Men episode.

 

[Zabazab]

Post mushroom bomb the whole concept of magic was imploded into earth. There was magic back in the Cretaceous time, but it wasn't as much as there is now.

That quote doesn't suggest there wasn't as much magic in the Cretaceous, it just says there's magic now because of the Mushroom War.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

There is another way that hasn’t been brought up yet.

That is altering/reshaping a universe or infinite number of universes which in that case, will been perfectly valid assuming that statement about “affecting all realities” has been elaborated on further.

Anyway, now I am off from work.

Now that I see that there's more staff members who have an eye on this thread, I need to know if something qualifies.

The Clock Titans smacking each other is what creates the passage of time throughout the multiverse. Like them dealing physical force on each other creates the passage of time.


How would we quantify this

Hmm, I do see this involved Hax and range with physical stats being involved since this seems to involve time manipulation and I think qualifying for creation on the time aspect at least.

Curious though as I doubt the Clock Titans will not able to do this in their own as I assume this involves a group effort (If I looking at this correctly)

 

[KingTempest]

Curious though as I doubt the Clock Titans will not able to do this in their own as I assume this involves a group effort (If I looking at this correctly)

Not sure. Just seems like they cause it by hitting each other

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Not sure. Just seems like they cause it by hitting each other

Yeah as I not sure on the individual Clock Titans powers (AP) in this case plus this is like the only instance we see Clock Titans just duking it out in a spin off series.

Hmm, I suppose we could label the Clock Titans (individual ones) as Unknown while the 2A thing is with 2 of them as from what I see and heard. Prismo did mention by plural rather than singular in this case going by this clip (The “they” part) at 0:22. However, I am also admittedly fine with a solid rating for them if that is chosen.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah as I not sure on the individual Clock Titans powers (AP) in this case plus this is like the only instance we see Clock Titans just duking it out in a spin off series.

Hmm, I suppose we could label the Clock Titans (individual ones) as Unknown while the 2A thing is with 2 of them as from what I see and heard. Prismo did mention by plural rather than singular in this case going by this clip (The “they” part) at 0:22. However, I am also admittedly fine with a solid rating for them if that is chosen.

Probably because they're clock people. The time waves are brought about by hitting each other, while the volume of waves depends on the force

 

[Godernet]

Yeah as I not sure on the individual Clock Titans powers (AP) in this case plus this is like the only instance we see Clock Titans just duking it out in a spin off series.

tbf it being a spin-off series shouldn't matter too much in this case since it is still a continuation of the Adventure Time story set in the same multiverse with the same people, creatures, and mythos.

Hmm, I suppose we could label the Clock Titans (individual ones) as Unknown while the 2A thing is with 2 of them as from what I see and heard. Prismo did mention by plural rather than singular in this case going by this clip (The “they” part) at 0:22. However, I am also admittedly fine with a solid rating for them if that is chosen.

I don't think "they sent time waves throughout the multiverse" indicates that both need to be present to launch these time waves.

When Prismo shows Fionna and Cake what happened, we see that time waves are sent out even when it's just one Clock Titan whacking another upside the head rather than them clashing and causing the waves due to their combined power.

If we are saying the waves are a result of AP and not Hax, then that does paint the picture that they are both individually capable of this since as far as we know the second Clock Titan wouldn't be exuding any AP from just taking a hit to the face.

 

[KingTempest]

tbf it being a spin-off series shouldn't matter too much in this case since it is still a continuation of the Adventure Time story set in the same multiverse with the same people, creatures, and mythos.

It's also stated that time waves came from the time room when booko explained the time room back in the lich in season 4 of AT. F&C just elaborate on how they do it, which is from the clock titans

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Yeah as I not sure on the individual Clock Titans powers (AP) in this case plus this is like the only instance we see Clock Titans just duking it out in a spin off series.

Hmm, I suppose we could label the Clock Titans (individual ones) as Unknown while the 2A thing is with 2 of them as from what I see and heard. Prismo did mention by plural rather than singular in this case going by this clip (The “they” part) at 0:22. However, I am also admittedly fine with a solid rating for them if that is chosen.

inb4 the multiverse having an edge and being infinite is pointed out as a contradiction

 

[HammerStrikes219]

don't think "they sent time waves throughout the multiverse" indicates that both need to be present to launch these time waves.

When Prismo shows Fionna and Cake what happened, we see that time waves are sent out even when it's just one Clock Titan whacking another upside the head rather than them clashing and causing the waves due to their combined power

However, both were still clashing though technically speaking, but still a fair point all things considered.


Also I am pretty sure we can make exceptions on where Hax get rated as AP especially if the said Hax performs a AP feat

Edit: Primo still explained to us that they are still responsible for the feat to say the least from both of them.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

inb4 the multiverse having an edge and being infinite is pointed out as a contradiction

Eh, while I have see that argument being used both ways, it technically does dwell into more theoretical rather than set in facts.

Having a edge can imply there is a border between the infinite amount of universes and keep in mind, a edge is a indication of a universe separated from other universes if we go by this particular argument.

I am aware you are possibly joking, but this can go either way

 

[HammerStrikes219]

And I should elaborated on the edge part, but personally speak, it is more akin to a barrier between universes and theoretically limiting the size of said universes despite them (all individual universes) being infinite in size to avoid overlapping and merging the infinite number of universes into just one large universe where every universes is connected to one another ie. There is no barriers. All universes are physically connected to one another and in theory, allows someone to attempting to physically travel between universes.

However, I will note the distance between universes will still been massive since it will been very hard to quantifying in such a massive distance.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

I agree with 2A cosmology as mentioned earlier.

 

[KingTempest]

We saw the Lich hand drop into the map and it wasn't even fit to show the actual universes

Those blobs aren't universes peeps. There's a lot more