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Kryptonian Physiology + Superman NEP Erasure

Lloydblitzed

Lloydblitzed

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This is simple (but a bit big):

A Kryptonian physiolgy page that contains every default hax/weakness a Kryptonian (or a Kryptonian powers user) should have
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kryptonian Physiology

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman threathened to be able to destroy the entire Phantom Zone. This is supported by the fact his fight against Rogol Zaar was shaking the whole Zone throught Earthquakes. The Phantom Zone is stated to be beyond space/time (so it should obviously lack Space Time) and a timeless dimension of near nothingness. This should grant him: Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 1; Aspect Types 2 & 5 [Other: Concepts & History].
Anyone capable of destroying the Zone should also be granted the same ability

As explained in the Kryptonian page, the Superflare is at least a 2000x amp.
The Superflare is thousands of time more powerful than Heat Vision
Click to expand...
Which means all Kryptonians in the 4-B ranges would raise to at least 5495933.738 Foes (4-B), and 3-C ranges ones would raise to at least 824.15772 Yottafoe (3-B), while the 2-C ranges one would obviously not change in tier. They should have "(X tier or higher) via Super Flare"


Agree: @Spinoirr @AlphaOmegaV1 @HenshinIntervention @AStrangeverse @Woomica @LordTracer (Agrees with everything but neutral on NEP due to waiting on more input) @FentyBeauty @Emirp sumitpo (Agree with everything except Invulnerability), @Dalesean027, @Sonoftanavast9 (Disagree with Invulnerability, Agrees with the rest), @Phoenks (Agree with all but thinks Intangibility Negation should be NIP)
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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I disagree with the NEP part, since it says "near nothingness," and "outside of space-time" rather than it being pure nothingness and completely lacking space time. Additionally, I don't believe you even get NEP for destroying or interacting with spaceless/timeless realms.

(And if that is accepted, I imagine this will lead to a domino affect of people gaining NEP interaction for stuff like "shaking the world of void" and I find that pretty dubious, personally)

Also, there seems to still be a physical existence to that realm just judging by some of the artwork.

Kryptonian page looks alright. My one concern is that "Intangibility Negation" which is moreso just an application of matter manipulation via freeze breath than it is outright negating intangibility. So I personally wouldn't put that there.


Super flare multiplier I can't really comment on. Is the 2000 amp consistent with its showings? There seems to be a scan comparing it to a supernova, which seems a lot less impressive than what you get with the multiplier, but meh.

And does heat vision even scale to physicals in the first place? Isn't that moreso hax and heat manipulation than AP?
 
Phoenks said:
I disagree with the NEP part, since it says "near nothingness,"
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The scientific guy's words should be more reliable, and he likely refers to "near nothingness" as the fact that physical beings exists in this place
Phoenks said:
and "outside of space-time" rather than it being pure nothingness and completely lacking space time.
Click to expand...
I don't see why "Outside Space-time" wouldn't mean it lacks one

Phoenks said:
Additionally, I don't believe you even get NEP for destroying or interacting with spaceless/timeless realms.
Click to expand...
You do

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 1; Aspect Types 2 & 5 [Other: Concepts & History]; Zen'ō is able to erase the entirety of the multiverse, which includes the World of Void, a realm of eternal nothingness devoid of time and space, the <Subspace> which is a dimensional world devoid of the concepts of time and space)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Phoenks said:
(And if that is accepted, I imagine this will lead to a domino affect of people gaining NEP interaction for stuff like "shaking the world of void" and I find that pretty dubious, personally)

Also, there seems to still be a physical existence to that realm just judging by some of the artwork.
Click to expand...
The only physical existences are the prisoners
Phoenks said:
Kryptonian page looks alright. My one concern is that "Intangibility Negation" which is moreso just an application of matter manipulation via freeze breath than it is outright negating intangibility. So I personally wouldn't put that there.
Click to expand...
Superman can also harm intangible beings by Heat vision. I doubt this is matter manip
Phoenks said:
Super flare multiplier I can't really comment on. Is the 2000 amp consistent with its showings? There seems to be a scan comparing it to a supernova, which seems a lot less impressive than what you get with the multiplier, but meh.
Click to expand...
Its something that Superman often use when he has no choice. There isn't much anti feats against it
Phoenks said:
And does heat vision even scale to physicals in the first place?
Click to expand...
His heat vision and physicals are consistanly shown to be comparable in power like here

Phoenks said:
Isn't that moreso hax and heat manipulation than AP?
Click to expand...
No + the multiplier scan implies that its based on power
 
Disagree with invulnerability
Click to expand...
They aren't like, actually invulnerable, just really durable. They have consistently been hurt by things that are neither their weakness's nor have invulnerability negating properties.

They are just said to be invulnerable, in the sense that they are extremely durable, every instance of "Conventional weaponry" you showed are stuff like explosions, swords and bullets which are just way too weak to harm them.

Edit - As per the invulnerability Page unless you can actually provide some proof separating them from just being durable it should be removed
This is distinct from simply particularly high durability, which may make a character seem invulnerable to weaker opponents. Only characters whose invulnerability is clearly more than simply being exceptionally durable for the verse's setting qualify.
Click to expand...
 
Sonoftanavast9 said:
Disagree with invulnerability

They aren't like, actually invulnerable, just really durable. They have consistently been hurt by things that are neither their weakness's nor have invulnerability negating properties.

They are just said to be invulnerable, in the sense that they are extremely durable, every instance of "Conventional weaponry" you showed are stuff like explosions, swords and bullets which are just way too weak to harm them.
Click to expand...

Basically Kryptonian's case
Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through. Others have more conditional invulnerability, such as one that just prevents harm from conventional weaponry, but can be easily circumvented by supernatural abilities.
Click to expand...
 
Lloydblitzed said:
Basically Kryptonian's case
Click to expand...
That's clearly not the case for Kryptonians nor are you interpreting that correctly

What it means that they are actually invulnerable to these conventional weaponry being the reason that they can't harm them, not that the weapons are just way below their threshold for durability which is the case for Kryptonians.

Character can harm Kryptonians with nothing more than Attack Potency that exceeds or matches their durability without any need for added supernatural effects/energies which won't be the case if they were actually invulnerable.

Yes, some invulnerabilities inherently work to the exclusion of certain forms of attack but this isn't the case for them because if it was, they would still be unharmed by opponents who match or exceed their durability as long as those opponents aren't imbuing their attacks with some supernatural quality (which mind you will have to specifically be said to bypass their invulnerability or be said to be an exemption from it) but that's clearly not the case
 
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Lloydblitzed said:
The scientific guy's words should be more reliable, and he likely refers to "near nothingness" as the fact that physical beings exists in this place
Click to expand...
Any evidence to support that's all that he means?

Lloydblitzed said:
I don't see why "Outside Space-time" wouldn't mean it lacks one
Click to expand...
It could simply mean it has a separate kind of spatiotemporal existence that is distinct from it being devoid or lacking the concept of space time. Or just being outside of the structure of whatever "space-time" qualifies as.

Though I'll see what staffs have to say regarding that.



Lloydblitzed said:
You do
Click to expand...
Dang. Though I think the subspace part of that explanation has more qualifying evidence for the "lack the concept of space-time" statement.


Lloydblitzed said:
Superman can also harm intangible beings by Heat vision. I doubt this is matter manip
Click to expand...
This would be a form of NPI, rather than negation.



I guess I can agree with the multiplier then. I will see what staffs say though.
 
Another Issue I have, although really small, with this has to do more with one scan than anything.

You should remove the scan which uses material from Absolute Superman, while it still takes place in the mainline DC Continuity/Multiverse powers vary between these iterations of the characters so until Absolute Superman interacts with or scales off the mainline DC Superman/kryptonians scans derived from him shouldn't be used as evidence in a CRT relevant to Kryptonians relative to him.

There are multiple Superman profiles already on the wiki which technically take place in the same shared multiverse but don't outright scale to mainline superman nor possess all his abilities so this should be evident.
 
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Sonoftanavast9 said:
That's clearly not the case for Kryptonians nor are you interpreting that correctly

What it means that they are actually invulnerable to these conventional weaponry being the reason that they can't harm them, not that the weapons are just way below their threshold for durability which is the case for Kryptonians.
Click to expand...
I thought that piercing dura would be relevant in those cases which is why I used that conventional weapons argument


Phoenks said:
This would be a form of NPI, rather than negation.
Click to expand...
Ig. It wouldn't really change much anyways
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I agree with Sonoftanavast9 on his points for invulnerability.
Click to expand...
Counted
Emirp sumitpo said:
For the multiplier, that should only apply for New 52 and Rebirth Superman, since afaik, Post-Crisis hasn't done a super flare, and
Click to expand...
I've explained in the page why every Kryptonian should be granted the same abilities as New 52/Rebirth Superman, so I think it should apply to everyone imo

Emirp sumitpo said:
his sun-dipping only gets to 100x in multiplier.
Click to expand...
Superflare is pretty much his strongest attack tho
Emirp sumitpo said:
The physiology page is alright. NEP is fine.
Click to expand...
Counted
 
Agree with all the above, if you want I can provide some scans from Anatomy of a Metahuman (a canon guidebook to the DC Rebirth/New 52 era where Batman discusses certain powers) which add stuff like Gravity Manipulation
 
Hellbeast said:
Agree with all the above, if you want I can provide some scans from Anatomy of a Metahuman (a canon guidebook to the DC Rebirth/New 52 era where Batman discusses certain powers) which add stuff like Gravity Manipulation
Click to expand...
Would be appreciated cuz I def missed that Gravity stuff
 
Tried sending scans earlier but here’s the link to my PDF, it alludes to Tactile Telekinesis, Superman manipulating Gravity to fly and stuff like Supes interfering with Space-Time in Planck Time to fly through space at FTL speeds

This mentions the Hellbat, the New 52 Darkseid Invasion and the events of Batman endgame so it’s canon to the New 52 but came out in 2018
 
Lloydblitzed said:
I've explained in the page why every Kryptonian should be granted the same abilities as New 52/Rebirth Superman, so I think it should apply to everyone imo
Click to expand...
The problem isn't that. New 52 is a whole new continuity. Super flare should be for New 52 Kryptonians only
 
Lloydblitzed said:
Destroying nonexistence isn't merely NIP
Click to expand...
This isn't argument, you isn't erase nonexistence, you just interact with it and destroy it, that all, or else you get EE everytime you destroy something
Lloydblitzed said:
Bc its a spaceless/timeless prison/void between being and nothingness
Click to expand...
No, this just mean you lack space-time and eh......history
 
Agree with everything, and good job.

Frankly i didn't expect Kryptonian to get its own page, i'm curious if its mean something like the Speed Force its going to get his own profile too.
 
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