Konosuba and Sentouin Scaling Part 2: Speed, Attack Potency, Intelligene and other Miscellaneous things

[QuasiYuri]

Oh yeah and Also Shouldn't Aqua, Darkness and Vanir scale to Megumins explosion.

Darkness has a high enough Magical Defense to survive it.

Vanir and Aqua surpass Megumin in Mana and Magic Power greatly to the point where it doesn't seem far fetched to believee they are capable of the Destructive feats or is it Attack Potency?

Vanir died to it, Explosion is canonically above gods and Darkness got one shotted by a rock flung by Explosion.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Everything but the AP upgrade of Kazuma, Darkness, Eris, Megumin, etc...

What's wrong with Megumins upgrade?

She is constantly stated and shown to have grown stronger.

And shouldn't she be Low- 7B (Small City Level) for Destroying the Mounatin in Volume 6.

 

[QuasiYuri]

He's also Consistently shown to have to put varying amounts of effort to see through characters depending on their strength.

He has to do it to Wiz. He has to do it too Aqua (Though that's also partially due to her Holy nature).

He one shot Wiz on a daily basis.

Meaning Iris was approaching his levels of strength due to her levelling up and getting stronger.

But since that isn't considered valid enough for an upgrade. I'm pretty sure it's valid enough for a downgrade.

Just being stronger isn't valid. Scaling to someone would.
At best you could get "likely higher" for Iris, but anything else is contradicting the entire series.

Like seriously if it was a quote from the Dust Novel. I would understand.

But Bakken Is a Spinoff written by the Author there would be no reason for the author to add in that statement if he wasn't trying to make a case of Iris getting stronger.

And you also seem to forget that Iris is also consistently stated and portrayed as being above everyone else.

In fact, the Author even directly states that she's the strongest girl in the afterword.

"And the strongest girl equipped with the strongest sword and the strongest armour"- Volume 17 Afterword.

Meaning as far I'm concerned Either Iris scales up to ion know Building (8-C) to Large Building Level (High 8-C).

Above every adventurers, but not Gods nor archedevils.
Bakuen shows that she's more one of the strongest top tier than one of the god tier.

And 9-A Vanir is a no.

 

[QuasiYuri]

What's wrong with Megumins upgrade?

She is constantly stated and shown to have grown stronger.

And shouldn't she be Low- 7B (Small City Level) for Destroying the Mounatin in Volume 6.

She already is Low 7-B in her second key.

And becoming stronger without feats or supplementary stuff isn't enough to jump tiers.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Vanir died to it

I mean Willingly.... And he still surpasses Megumin in Greatly in Magic Power and Mana so he should be capable of doing the same thing.

That's more a Defense anti-feat than an Attack Potency one.

Darkness got one shotted by a rock directly by Explosion.

And how many times has that happened if it's only once then it's clearly an Outlier.

It's stated multiple times that Darkness greatest asset is her defense. And that she's tough enough to survive explosion.

Also the rock thing is a physical feat. I'm talking about her Magical Defense (which is why she resisted it).

And I don't see any anti-feats for magical defense. Except for Vanir Style death ray but it was directly stated by Maxwell that Devil Magic is weakend in the presence of holy things.

Which the Blue Thing (Aqua) qualifies as.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

She already is Low 7-B in her second key.

N--No she isn't.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

He one shot Wiz on a daily basis.

That cuz she allows it. However when she actually gets pissed. He considers a threat, no?

 

[QuasiYuri]

N--No she isn't.

I just checked. She is.
I know Konosuba pages info by heart too.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Scaling to someone would.

She scales to Vanir due to him finding it difficult to read her as he directly says himself.

Without doing his "Thou really thought you reached my level, Moi Lied bwahaha" thing

 

[MidnightDawn1]

I know Konosuba pages info by heart too.

Impressive but.....

10-A physically, 8-A with Explosion | 10-A physically, *****Low 7-C with**** Explosion

Name: Megumin

Origin: Kono Subarashii Sekai ni Shukufuku Wo!

Gender: Female

Age: 13, later 14 (Anime), 5-15 (Light Novel), 17-18 (Web Novel)


She's small town level not Small city Level.

 

[QuasiYuri]

That cuz she allows it. However when she actually gets pissed. He considers a threat, no?

The only time she ever was a match was when she bought a treasure worth of anti devils items and coe.
And even then, Vanir only saw it as worth enough to merely defending some of them.

Him being above her was true during their first encounter and still was at the end of Konosuba.

 

[QuasiYuri]

She scales to Vanir due to him finding it difficult to read her as he directly says himself.

Without doing his "Thou really thought you reached my level, Moi Lied bwahaha" thing

He just said it would make it harder to read. He also had trouble reading Duke.

We know it isn't enough for others to scale to him already. If anything, it's a weakness of his all seeing eyes.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I mean Willingly.... And he still surpasses Megumin in Greatly in Magic Power and Mana so he should be capable of doing the same thing.

That's more a Defense anti-feat than an Attack Potency one.

Explosion is stated to be able to kill gods and duke of hell class devils in the very description of it.
Even Vanir said no magic could harm him but Explosion.

And how many times has that happened if it's only once then it's clearly an Outlier.

It's stated multiple times that Darkness greatest asset is her defense. And that she's tough enough to survive explosion.

Also the rock thing is a physical feat. I'm talking about her Magical Defense (which is why she resisted it).

And I don't see any anti-feats for magical defense. Except for Vanir Style death ray but it was directly stated by Maxwell that Devil Magic is weakend in the presence of holy things.

Which the Blue Thing (Aqua) qualifies as.

She already has City Block resistance to magic attack based on her surviving Explosion at the time, despite the state she was in.

No reason to get more than that.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Regarding the Sentouin thing, I'm pretty sure it is a outlier for the Konosuba dudes since all the top tier would be upgraded as such, one of them being an angel Wiz completely outmatched.

Despite their consistent feats being several tiers below this. Hell, Konosuba's genius creator made Destroyer, whose core explosing only threatened a city and Wiz, someone who later easily bodied an angel without any change since then, couldn't beat it by herself.

Also Vanir just mocks Six's job, not the organisation.

For these reasons, I find scaling highly unlikely, if not incoherent.

No, that doesn't affect everybody. Wiz fought a Fallen Angel, the General of the Demon King that shows up later was also a Fallen Angel. If even a Goddess like Aqua gets weakened to the point she's far from her peak after she fell, there's no reason we should scale a Fallen Angel to an actual Angel from Heaven.

Edit: The Angel was also a Seraph which in Christian tradition is the highest type of Angel, so not even necessarily same type of angel as Duke who was never said to be a Seraph or had a title like the other angel:

Combatants Will Be Dispatched!, Vol. 4
“Follower of Zenarith, I see that you went through the trouble of summoning me, the Seraph of Mercy and Bonds, only to subject me to this ridicule! If you so desire to be alone, then alone you shall be!”

She also obviously as seen above knows about Goddess Zenarith which is the canonically sister of Konosuba's Regina. Isn't it a bit absurd that the author would not be portraying the Gods and Devils as scaling above the confirmed 6-B? If there was actual evidence contradicting the possibility of them scaling above Kisaragi I'd agree, but there isn't.

This only specifically affects Heaven and Hell denizens. It doesn't even make sense that humanity from Sentouin would reach a power beyond that of those who rule over their souls and world, as it is noted by Lilith (the smartest character) in-Universe, that the fact the angel exists means they are screwed.

Regarding Vanir, he completely ignores the invasion as a potential threat, he finds out a country level organization from another world is about to invade his own city and he just mocks the guy in charge and left laughing, while it's in character for Vanir to fight back if an army is attacking Axel, as shown in Dust V7 where he fights the Demon King Army without revealing his identity because he was neutral, and once he got paid by the Guild, he completely annihilates the invaders. If Kisaragi was stronger than him, you can bet his reaction wouldn't be laugh at the imminent invasion.

I would agree with you if this would affect all Konosuba characters, but it doesn't, it barely affects denizens of Heaven and Hell, and as I already explained. Wiz doesn't scale to Vanir with his real body, Wiz doesn't scale to Aqua with her full power (doesn't even scale to nerfed Aqua).

The scaling is consistent with all showing in Sentouin and in the crossover, the only thing against it is the lack of showings at this level from Aqua and Vanir, but as already explained, throughout the entire story Aqua is far from her peak and Vanir never uses his real body, despite being stated to have fought a war against the full powered Gods before and didn't even died once. I'm saying we should make a key for that, not to say nerfed Aqua and Vanir are 6-B.

So there's no reason for it to be an outlier.

 

[FrenzyUND]

She's a different case, since she became human once descending, weakening her greatly. It is especially said to be special, and Eris descending as herself didn't have any restrictions.
Duke is closer to the latter.

Aqua never became human, when Eris is at her Chris form, she says she doesn't have access to divine powers like Aqua, she has no divine aura, can't see in the dark, or sense evil. Aqua was banned from Heaven, which weakened her, but she remains a goddess, nothing about her is human, she's a fallen goddess, just like Duke is a fallen angel:

I might’ve fallen into the mortal world, causing my powers to be far from my peak, but I’m still a goddess…

Same terminology, fallen. It doesn't make any sense for Aqua to fell and be weakened, but Duke who fell as well, and unlike Aqua betrayed the Gods, remain the same. While Aqua and Eris, when not banned, and teleport to the mortal world, are not affected by this nerf, as seen on V17.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Aqua never became human, when Eris is at her Chris form, she says she doesn't have access to divine powers like Aqua, she has no divine aura, can't see in the dark, or sense evil. Aqua was banned from Heaven, which weakened her, but she remains a goddess, nothing about her is human, she's a fallen goddess, just like Duke is a fallen angel:

Aqua is clearly said to have incarnated as a human, unlike Eris who stomp Zarachruste or appear at the festival

Same terminology, fallen. It doesn't make any sense for Aqua to fell and be weakened, but Duke who fell as well, and unlike Aqua betrayed the Gods, remain the same. While Aqua and Eris, when not banned, and teleport to the mortal world, are not affected by this nerf, as seen on V17.

That's a huge reaching based on no indication of him becoming weaker anytime.

 

[QuasiYuri]

No, that doesn't affect everybody. Wiz fought a Fallen Angel, the General of the Demon King that shows up later was also a Fallen Angel. If even a Goddess like Aqua gets weakened to the point she's far from her peak after she fell, there's no reason we should scale a Fallen Angel to an actual Angel from Heaven.

See the point above

Edit: The Angel was also a Seraph which in Christian tradition is the highest type of Angel, so not even necessarily same type of angel as Duke who was never said to be a Seraph or had a title like the other angel:

It's a headcanon based on others works, so no.

She also obviously as seen above knows about Goddess Zenarith which is the canonically sister of Konosuba's Regina. Isn't it a bit absurd that the author would not be portraying the Gods and Devils as scaling above the confirmed 6-B? If there was actual evidence contradicting the possibility of them scaling above Kisaragi I'd agree, but there isn't.

It wouldn't, especially when they die to far weaker stuff, litteraly 2/3 tiers below.

This only specifically affects Heaven and Hell denizens. It doesn't even make sense that humanity from Sentouin would reach a power beyond that of those who rule over their souls and world, as it is noted by Lilith (the smartest character) in-Universe, that the fact the angel exists means they are screwed.

Considering someone dangerous =/= they are able to no sell your suicide move to begin with
Cell considered Goku dangerous, but his self destruct one shot him

Regarding Vanir, he completely ignores the invasion as a potential threat, he finds out a country level organization from another world is about to invade his own city and he just mocks the guy in charge and left laughing, while it's in character for Vanir to fight back if an army is attacking Axel, as shown in Dust V7 where he fights the Demon King Army without revealing his identity because he was neutral, and once he got paid by the Guild, he completely annihilates the invaders. If Kisaragi was stronger than him, you can bet his reaction wouldn't be laugh at the imminent invasion.

He just fought back because he likes tp toy with the DKA and wants his shop fine.
Besides, you're litteraly saying that random monsters>>>Kirisagi and coe.

Besides Vanir can destroy the entire organisation while being weaker.

I would agree with you if this would affect all Konosuba characters, but it doesn't, it barely affects denizens of Heaven and Hell, and as I already explained. Wiz doesn't scale to Vanir with his real body, Wiz doesn't scale to Aqua with her full power (doesn't even scale to nerfed Aqua).

Didn't say she scaled to Vanir nor Aqua.

The scaling is consistent with all showing in Sentouin and in the crossover, the only thing against it is the lack of showings at this level from Aqua and Vanir, but as already explained, throughout the entire story Aqua is far from her peak and Vanir never uses his real body, despite being stated to have fought a war against the full powered Gods before and didn't even died once. I'm saying we should make a key for that, not to say nerfed Aqua and Vanir are 6-B.

So there's no reason for it to be an outlier.

Did you ignored the fact that a 8-B thing one shot even Vanir's true body?
Or that Explosion would be 6-B for everyone but Kazuma, despite how it makes no sense? The same one Six, who knows his organisation, only compare to nuke-like stuff, not nation-destroying blast.

A self destruct move being considered as being included in a "this guy is dangerous" statement without any feats to back it up and the others being thousands times below just sound as wrong as it gets.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Aqua is clearly said to have incarnated as a human, unlike Eris who stomp Zarachruste or appear at the festival

That's a huge reaching based on no indication of him becoming weaker anytime.

No it isn't, that's was literally never stated. Show me the quote for this, because I'm 100% sure it doesn't exist, what exist is this, which literally states how Aqua descended as a Goddess:

“I’ve been wondering about it for some time. Big Boss, you’re a goddess too. Don’t you have night vision like Aqua?”

“This body’s merely a disguise for use in the mortal world. Because I didn’t descend directly into the mortal world, I can’t sense devils, undead, and evil. But by the same token, I won’t emit divine aura that attracts undead.”

Unlike Eris who stomp Zereschrute? Aqua's feats are better than Eris even while weakened, so I don't get what you're trying to say.

While it's unknown how Eris fought him, Aqua one shotted him with a spell:

Something black was screaming and hurtling towards me. At that moment,

“Sacred High Exorcism!”

“Byaaaaaa!”

The penguin-like costume thing was purified by Aqua’s magic.

The familiar penguin collapsed to the floor.

Judging from the sound it made, it seems like it was completely empty now.

Even a simple God Blow is enough to one shot him:

Yes, Aqua’s target is…

“Oh, if it isn’t the acquaintances of Lady Dustiness. What a coinciden-.”

“GOD BLOW!”

The penguin who was sweeping up dust in front of Wiz’s store collapsed weightlessly to the ground after receiving Aqua’s fist.

Judging from the sound it made when it hit the floor, it seems like the contents were erased yet again

Now that I think about it, there's absolutely no evidence for Eris to be as strong as nerfed Aqua.

Eris seals are not even as reliable as Aqua's:

“By the way, Eris-sama. Where’d you take the divine relic you retrieved from the landlord?”

“Oh, that one? I cast a seal onto it and dumped it into the lake where the Hydra’s resting eternally…”

She used Seal on a Divine Relic and dumped it into a lake, but after that, the Divine Relic went missing and she again has to go after it in future arcs (Continued Explosions).

While Aqua's seal is absolute, they don't even need to take away Iris' necklace after it was sealed by Aqua, because it cannot be used anymore, unlike Eris' sealed Divine Relics:

“Hmph, with me around, there’s nothing to worry about! That dangerous divine relic’s been sealed by me and can’t be used! So rest easy! And that thief really targeted something amazing, huh?”

More evidence, Kazuma doesn't feel like Eris' buffs are any stronger than Aqua's:

I wonder what is going on. I did get Aqua to cast her buffs on me earlier, but I could feel Eris’s buffs taking effect on me too. I guess it really is true that spells of different sects stack with each other.

But Eris herself notes that she won't lose in Blessing (Luck) buff to anyone, which implies the other buffs from Aqua were either stronger or equal:

“When it comes to this spell, I’m confident I won’t lose out to anyone! In the name of the Goddess of Fortune, I grant you the greatest of all blessings! Blessing!”

So none of your points remains, it was never stated Aqua became human, Eris never did better against Zereschrute than Aqua, and all evidences points out to Aqua being at least slighty stronger than Eris even while weakened, plus the Angels are not the same type of Angel, one is a Seraph, the other isn't, so you can't claim Duke scales to the Sentouin Angel and therefore Wiz.

 

[FrenzyUND]

See the point above

It's a headcanon based on others works, so no.

I was just pointing out where the inspiration for Seraph comes from, the point is, regardless of that, Sentouin Angel was a Seraph Angel, Duke isn't, so you cannot claim that the scaling should affect Wiz because she defeated a different type of Angel.

It wouldn't, especially when they die to far weaker stuff, litteraly 2/3 tiers below.

Strong full powered Gods =/= Wolbach banned from Heaven, separated in two, and running out of followers. Weaker characters have been shown to survive things that severely hurt Wolbach, hell the Demon King while all weakened was barely damaged by the dynamite, but Wolbach was way above him in AP. I'm talking about AP here, not durability, Lilith herself can use a nuke, doesn't mean she can tank one, Megumin cannot tank Explosion, and so one.

Considering someone dangerous =/= they are able to no sell your suicide move to begin with
Cell considered Goku dangerous, but his self destruct one shot him

What's your point here? I'm saying we should give 6-B attack potency to characters portrayed as more powerful than characters with 6-B attack potency (Lilith and her organization), I never said anything about 6-B durability.

He just fought back because he likes tp toy with the DKA and wants his shop fine.
Besides, you're litteraly saying that random monsters>>>Kirisagi and coe.

Then you're proving my point, he wants his shop safe, and toyed with a Kisaragi agent, he knew they were coming, was not alarmed despite knowing their strength, while in character he would be likely to fight them.

I have no idea what you tried to say with your other point, random monsters >>> Kisaragi? What? I'm saying that Vanir who is portrayed as stronger than Kisaragi and isn't afraid or impressed by their power despite knowing they have 6-B AP and scales to the Gods who are also potrayed as above Kisaragi, should get 6-B AP with his true body, the scaling is pretty simple, and doesn't affect anyone else in Konosuba besides maybe Maxwell who is also a Duke of Hell, though I don't even know if he has a page. Characters like Wiz, etc, have nothing to do with all of this.

Besides Vanir can destroy the entire organisation while being weaker.

That's headcanon. Even the only advantage Vanir would have like like hax are countered by Kisaragi, as Alice was able to tank an instant death spell due to being an android, they have all modern tech, drones, airplanes, long ranged artillary, nukes, plus futuristic stuff like androids, mass production of Destroyers, and large country busting bombs. They would annihilate the Konosuba world. The clear thing here is that the full powered Gods and Dukes of Hell should have higher AP than Kisaragi, which is something that is recognized in-Universe by the smartest character, Lilith, who concludes that the existance of the Angel means they have to be more powerful than humanity, that's, of course, ignoring the fact that we have even more evidence to back it up in the case of Vanir's interaction with Kisaragi.

Didn't say she scaled to Vanir nor Aqua.

Did you ignored the fact that a 8-B thing one shot even Vanir's true body?
Or that Explosion would be 6-B for everyone but Kazuma, despite how it makes no sense? The same one Six, who knows his organisation, only compare to nuke-like stuff, not nation-destroying blast.

What? When did a 8-B one shot Vanir's true body? We've never seen Vanir's true body, ever. Six also has never seen Explosion, Agent 22 said that it looked like a small nuke at an unknown part of the story, which is more or less what we already have.

You're mixing a lot of things up, with Vanir being 6-B durability (I never claimed that), that Explosion killed his real body and therefore it should be 6-B in my claims (It never killed his main body, and as I just stated, I never said Vanir should get 6-B durability, no one in Sentouin has it, I'm saying 6-B AP which is what Sentouin has and Vanir is portrayed as stronger).

So to put it simple no, that won't make Explosion 6-B and the quote below shows Vanir doesn't use his real body.

““Wiz!?””

Seeing Wiz suddenly disappear, her two companions shouted in surprise.

“The real body of a devil is always in hell. When we appear in this world, we merely use some method to create a body, and then take possession of it with our spirit.”

To two listened intently to what Moi said, but showed confused expressions.

“Basically, by the logic of this world, Moi am not considered a living organism. The worthless magician pointed it out herself, that ‘all living things in a 1 meter radius will be forcibly teleported.’”

He is not even considered to be a living being in the mortal world because he's literally not there.

The only Devil ever to use his real body was Zereschrute for some reason, but even then Kazuma assumed he was with a fake body since it's the norm.

I didn't understand the other stuff you said, but Alice self destroys with her reactor because she use it as a source of energy, it's not like Lilith cannot drop it from her satelite or something, it's only self destruction for Alice.

For the rest, I'll say it again: Megumin's Explosion doesn't scale to any of that, no durability scaling is being made, the only scaling being made is full powered Aqua and true form Vanir having 6-B AP because they are clearly, with all evidence pointing out, written to be stronger than Lilith and Kisaragi who have 6-B AP, and the fact they hadn't display 6-B cannot be brought up because neither was at full power during the entire story, so I'm proposing them to have Full Power and True Body keys with 6-B AP.

We have the same verse here, the human characters have 6-B AP, the Gods and Devils are portrayed as stronger than them which is to be expected, they rule their worlds, destiny and souls, even the character herself with 6-B AP who is also the smartest in the verse agrees with my claims, but we're going with Gods and Devils being weaker in AP than them? It doesn't make sense.

We have stuff in the profiles like Kazuma's thoughts being used to determine stuff like Vanir and Aqua having Law Manipulation because of Kazuma thoughts, CRT's done by you, using the argument of "author uses Kazuma's thoughts to give world-info".



So you're telling me it's not the author's intention to scream to the readers that Gods and Devils are stronger than Kisaragi with the smartest character in the verse herself stating it multiple times? Same character who has the actual 6-B AP? Even with Vanir being portrayed in the crossover to be stronger and above the Kisaragi invasion threat? The evidence for that is way stronger than what you used to make the previous CRT, that was Kazuma coming to the conclusion that Gods set up limitations and then randomly stating on V9 that Vanir's existance defies such laws.

And I don't desagree with it, I'm just struggling to understand how you're going against my point when it is way stronger than what you did yourself earlier.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Stuff

So none of your points remains, it was never stated Aqua became human, Eris never did better against Zereschrute than Aqua, and all evidences points out to Aqua being at least slighty stronger than Eris even while weakened, plus the Angels are not the same type of Angel, one is a Seraph, the other isn't, so you can't claim Duke scales to the Sentouin Angel and therefore Wiz.

Human Aqua>Goddess Eris now?
With your proof being her Chris self ?

Half of what you said doesnt even work on this mere fact.m, since they are different keys with different abilities.

Eris depleted Zerechrute entire stock of lives, with Aqua only killing his last one, which is why Vanir had to resurrect him.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I was just pointing out where the inspiration for Seraph comes from, the point is, regardless of that, Sentouin Angel was a Seraph Angel, Duke isn't, so you cannot claim that the scaling should affect Wiz because she defeated a different type of Angel.

You invent the idea of a power ranking angel hierarchy. Still a no here.

Strong full powered Gods =/= Wolbach banned from Heaven, separated in two, and running out of followers. Weaker characters have been shown to survive things that severely hurt Wolbach, hell the Demon King while all weakened was barely damaged by the dynamite, but Wolbach was way above him in AP. I'm talking about AP here, not durability, Lilith herself can use a nuke, doesn't mean she can tank one, Megumin cannot tank Explosion, and so one.

Where did I mention Wolbach? I'm talking about Explosion, which can kill even gods n devils AND was only said to be nuke like by Six.
If the author intent was to make them the way you said, then it would be described differently.

What's your point here? I'm saying we should give 6-B attack potency to characters portrayed as more powerful than characters with 6-B attack potency (Lilith and her organization), I never said anything about 6-B durability.

Then you're proving my point, he wants his shop safe, and toyed with a Kisaragi agent, he knew they were coming, was not alarmed despite knowing their strength, while in character he would be likely to fight them.
I have no idea what you tried to say with your other point, random monsters >>> Kisaragi? What? I'm saying that Vanir who is portrayed as stronger than Kisaragi and isn't afraid or impressed by their power despite knowing they have 6-B AP and scales to the Gods who are also potrayed as above Kisaragi, should get 6-B AP with his true body, the scaling is pretty simple, and doesn't affect anyone else in Konosuba besides maybe Maxwell who is also a Duke of Hell, though I don't even know if he has a page. Characters like Wiz, etc, have nothing to do with all of this.

You said that he felt the need for the DKA but not them, litteraly saying they were more dangerous in his eyes.

That's headcanon. Even the only advantage Vanir would have like like hax are countered by Kisaragi, as Alice was able to tank an instant death spell due to being an android, they have all modern tech, drones, airplanes, long ranged artillary, nukes, plus futuristic stuff like androids, mass production of Destroyers, and large country busting bombs. They would annihilate the Konosuba world. The clear thing here is that the full powered Gods and Dukes of Hell should have higher AP than Kisaragi, which is something that is recognized in-Universe by the smartest character, Lilith, who concludes that the existance of the Angel means they have to be more powerful than humanity, that's, of course, ignoring the fact that we have even more evidence to back it up in the case of Vanir's interaction with Kisaragi.

Wow, it sure would kill a guy who's true body is elsewhere, as near endless lives and can solos most of them by just launching one or two cursed

What? When did a 8-B one shot Vanir's true body? We've never seen Vanir's true body, ever. Six also has never seen Explosion, Agent 22 said that it looked like a small nuke at an unknown part of the story, which is more or less what we already have.

His mask is a part of his true body, it is said and repeated. He lost a live to Megumin yknow?
Mb for mistaking the two. Point still stands though. You're asking to ignore 30 volumes of coherence for a "crap this guy is dangerous' for a "my suicide move I never used is weaker than them, despite never seeing this guy before".

You're mixing a lot of things up, with Vanir being 6-B durability (I never claimed that), that Explosion killed his real body and therefore it should be 6-B in my claims (It never killed his main body, and as I just stated, I never said Vanir should get 6-B durability, no one in Sentouin has it, I'm saying 6-B AP which is what Sentouin has and Vanir is portrayed as stronger).

So to put it simple no, that won't make Explosion 6-B and the quote below shows Vanir doesn't use his real body.


He is not even considered to be a living being in the mortal world because he's literally not there.

The only Devil ever to use his real body was Zereschrute for some reason, but even then Kazuma assumed he was with a fake body since it's the norm.

I didn't understand the other stuff you said, but Alice self destroys with her reactor because she use it as a source of energy, it's not like Lilith cannot drop it from her satelite or something, it's only self destruction for Alice.

For the rest, I'll say it again: Megumin's Explosion doesn't scale to any of that, no durability scaling is being made, the only scaling being made is full powered Aqua and true form Vanir having 6-B AP because they are clearly, with all evidence pointing out, written to be stronger than Lilith and Kisaragi who have 6-B AP, and the fact they hadn't display 6-B cannot be brought up because neither was at full power during the entire story, so I'm proposing them to have Full Power and True Body keys with 6-B AP.

We have the same verse here, the human characters have 6-B AP, the Gods and Devils are portrayed as stronger than them which is to be expected, they rule their worlds, destiny and souls, even the character herself with 6-B AP who is also the smartest in the verse agrees with my claims, but we're going with Gods and Devils being weaker in AP than them? It doesn't make sense.

We have stuff in the profiles like Kazuma's thoughts being used to determine stuff like Vanir and Aqua having Law Manipulation because of Kazuma thoughts, CRT's done by you, using the argument of "author uses Kazuma's thoughts to give world-info".



So you're telling me it's not the author's intention to scream to the readers that Gods and Devils are stronger than Kisaragi with the smartest character in the verse herself stating it multiple times? Same character who has the actual 6-B AP? Even with Vanir being portrayed in the crossover to be stronger and above the Kisaragi invasion threat? The evidence for that is way stronger than what you used to make the previous CRT, that was Kazuma coming to the conclusion that Gods set up limitations and then randomly stating on V9 that Vanir's existance defies such laws.

And I don't desagree with it, I'm just struggling to understand how you're going against my point when it is way stronger than what you did yourself earlier.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Since the second half of my comment got deleted entirely, I'll just sum up what I think of it:

It is vague af to use someone considering angels dangerous because "they are connected to thr creation of the universe" and "we shouldn't insult it" to say that they are said to be factually above a self destruction which would be a core problem.

Or to say "It's hard to be a Spy" = Vanir is stronger than this one time self destruction problem

At very best, you could give them a likely higher; but anything else is throwing away 30 volumes worth of coherence for a verse which wasn't even written with Konosuba in head at the time.

But now I'll just let others decide which option they choose to go with.

 

[Antvasima]

Yuri seems to make sense to me.

 

[Popted2]

i agree with Yuri
at this point the things that Yuri accepted should be put in the profiles
Midnight please stop longering this discussion please
i just want that this to be applied

 

[Antvasima]

That is probably fine, yes.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Human Aqua>Goddess Eris now?
With your proof being her Chris self ?

Half of what you said doesnt even work on this mere fact.m, since they are different keys with different abilities.

All feats I mentioned were Eris feats. Seal is a Goddess or Priest skill, not Thief, Chris cannot cast Seal and why would she? Her entire job there is to seal the damn divine relics, why would she cast a weak seal if she can just use her true form and cast a powerful seal like Aqua does? Because she can't, she used the strongest seal she can as Eris, but it was still not enough, therefore she hid the relic inside the lake, but once the relic went missing, she had to go after it again because it was still dangerous, while Aqua casually sealed away the other Divine Relic and made it completely useless to the point Iris could keep it with her.

So yes, weakened Aqua is at least slight stronger than Eris, which doesn't surprise me since Aqua claims to be higher ranked and Eris claims Aqua to be a powerful Goddess.

Just to keep it clear, Chris can transform into Eris or go to that world as Eris as already show in V13 where she transform into Eris to defeat Zereschrute and turn into Chris again so there's no reason for her to not use the seal with her true form:

—As Darkness held him down, I poured Aqua’s juice into the suit and somehow managed to pry her off the penguin after she fell unconscious.

At that moment, Eris-sama arrived and gave the devil the beating of his life.

Then, Eris-sama turned back into Chris, and after loading the sleeping Darkness onto the carriage, traveled with us back to Axel-

The comparison between their buffs was with Eris as well, Eris in Heaven casting buffs on Kazuma (V17), Chris cannot even cast Priest buffs. None of the comparisons were between Chris and Aqua, but Eris and weakened Aqua, which shows Aqua being at least slight stronger.

And as I already pointed out, there's no human Aqua, she never became human, she's a Goddess, but weakened due to being banned from Hell.

Eris depleted Zerechrute entire stock of lives, with Aqua only killing his last one, which is why Vanir had to resurrect him.

Yes, and it took an unknown amount of days for her to do so:

“So, what brings you here today, Zereschrute? Actually, you are a high-ranking devil in your own right, so Moi really didn’t expect you to be vanquished from just a single blow. What happened to the other lives you had in stock?”

“The Goddess Eris has been appearing at my castle every day to kill me. That’s why all my lives are gone.”

That's unquantifiable, we don't know how long exactly it took or how many lives he had, or how Eris did that (if took her two hits per live, 3, 4, whatever), what we know is that Aqua can kill him with her most basic one shot punch or basic Sacred Exorcism instead of Sacred Highness Exorcism, which is better than what we can quantify for Eris.

 

[FrenzyUND]

You invent the idea of a power ranking angel hierarchy. Still a no here.

No, it's basically two different types of Angels, there's no reason to assume they have the same strength, it's like assuming a Succubus and Vanir have the same power level despite being two different Devils.

Where did I mention Wolbach? I'm talking about Explosion, which can kill even gods n devils AND was only said to be nuke like by Six.
If the author intent was to make them the way you said, then it would be described differently.

And what that has anything to do with what I said? I'm not talking about durability, how many times I have to say it again? Plus, Explosion killed a weak Wolbach who could barely tank a dynamite, Chomusuke actually survived Wolbach's Explosion, Hoost thought he could tank it at 100% of his power and so own. And I'm specifically talking about Vanir's true body, not the fake one he uses.

Also, again, Six never said anything, it was 22.

You said that he felt the need for the DKA but not them, litteraly saying they were more dangerous in his eyes.

No, I said that it's in character for him to actually fight when an army invade Axel, and acted like Kisaragi invasion was mundane, despite being in character for him to fight them when they actually arrieved.

Wow, it sure would kill a guy who's true body is elsewhere, as near endless lives and can solos most of them by just launching one or two cursed

He doesn't even kill humans, and cursed have literally no effect in androids, drones, and the such.

His mask is a part of his true body, it is said and repeated. He lost a live to Megumin yknow?
Mb for mistaking the two. Point still stands though. You're asking to ignore 30 volumes of coherence for a "crap this guy is dangerous' for a "my suicide move I never used is weaker than them, despite never seeing this guy before".

No, it isn't, his mask is his true fake body, the part his soul is actually possessing, it's specifically said that part of it was made from the bones of magic dragons:

I can’t fathom why art thou are so angry, but moi heard that eating some small bones will help in alleviating your nature of being quick to anger. Part of my mask was made from the bones of magic dragons, I don’t mind letting you bite it.

The rest of the body is sand being controlled by magic, while the mask is what he possess with one of his souls, obviously when the mask is destroyed he loses a life because one soul was destroyed, just like any other Devils using fake bodies, like Arnes and Hoost.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Since the second half of my comment got deleted entirely, I'll just sum up what I think of it:

It is vague af to use someone considering angels dangerous because "they are connected to thr creation of the universe" and "we shouldn't insult it" to say that they are said to be factually above a self destruction which would be a core problem.

Or to say "It's hard to be a Spy" = Vanir is stronger than this one time self destruction problem

You're just making poor case of all the actual context when you yourself added stuff like Law Manipulation with way less evidence, by using just the argument that the author's intentions were probably passed through Kazuma's thoughts. My point has way more weight to it. I'm just using the standard used to make changes.

At very best, you could give them a likely higher; but anything else is throwing away 30 volumes worth of coherence for a verse which wasn't even written with Konosuba in head at the time.

But now I'll just let others decide which option they choose to go with.

Regardless if it was written first or not, author decided to make Konosuba in the same Universe and crossover them, and even commenting power levels between the two.

What I propose doesn't affect any of the verse's coherence at all, as I said already and proved many times, this specifically is about different forms of certain characters that have never done anything in the actual story to imply they are limited to a certain power level while in those forms.

I would agree with you if the standards for changes were way higher, but when we have stuff like "Vanir fought Gods, so he must scale to this turtle who is also a God (is a Divine Beast which is different from a God, actually, and is physically much stronger than Eris for instance)", and "Kazuma thought the Gods set the laws of the world, therefore Aqua and Eris have Law Manipulation", and "Kazuma describe Vanir as defying the laws of the world, therefore Vanir has law manipulation", which were done by you, then I have to say my point for this CRT has a way higher standard for acceptance.

 

[QuasiYuri]

No, it's basically two different types of Angels, there's no reason to assume they have the same strength, it's like assuming a Succubus and Vanir have the same power level despite being two different Devils.

False equivalence. One has a clear cut hierarchy, not the other.

And what that has anything to do with what I said? I'm not talking about durability, how many times I have to say it again? Plus, Explosion killed a weak Wolbach who could barely tank a dynamite, Chomusuke actually survived Wolbach's Explosion, Hoost thought he could tank it at 100% of his power and so own. And I'm specifically talking about Vanir's true body, not the fake one he uses.

Did you even read Konosuba ? It is flat out said by a goddess that Explosion is above Gods and devils.
Chomusuke never tanked Explosion too.

What was the spell you used just now?”

“That spell? It’s called Explosion, so called the strongest spell.”

Strongest!

“It’s the most powerful destructive force known to mankind. It doesn’t matter if the opponent is a god or a devil, Explosion is the ultimate offensive spell that can destroy anything in the world.”

Ultimate!


Tbf I'm kinda annoyed by the fact that most of your points are really just going against the verse itself. You just need to look at the previous CRTs.

 

[QuasiYuri]

You're just making poor case of all the actual context when you yourself added stuff like Law Manipulation with way less evidence, by using just the argument that the author's intentions were probably passed through Kazuma's thoughts. My point has way more weight to it. I'm just using the standard used to make changes.

You're going against what's said, as shown with Explosion.
Also using false equivalence won't get you anywhere.

Regardless if it was written first or not, author decided to make Konosuba in the same Universe and crossover them, and even commenting power levels between the two.

So now author intent doesnt matter ?

What I propose doesn't affect any of the verse's coherence at all, as I said already and proved many times, this specifically is about different forms of certain characters that have never done anything in the actual story to imply they are limited to a certain power level while in those forms.

It does. And the fact you outright lie regarding Explosion shows how it goes against your vague reasonning for such a huge tier jump.

I would agree with you if the standards for changes were way higher, but when we have stuff like "Vanir fought Gods, so he must scale to this turtle who is also a God (is a Divine Beast which is different from a God, actually, and is physically much stronger than Eris for instance)", and "Kazuma thought the Gods set the laws of the world, therefore Aqua and Eris have Law Manipulation", and "Kazuma describe Vanir as defying the laws of the world, therefore Vanir has law manipulation", which were done by you, then I have to say my point for this CRT has a way higher standard for acceptance.

If you disagree then make a CRT.

You"re just saying "I think these are wrong, so I'm right".
It won't get you anywhere.

Now I'm really not adding more on this subject. I think others will be able to judge if your argument is shallow or not.

 

[FrenzyUND]

False equivalence. One has a clear cut hierarchy, not the other.

No, it isn't, if you're assuming they are the same strength, despite being classified in different types, then you should provide the evidence for that, we shouldn't assume they are the same despite that not being stated.

Did you even read Konosuba ? It is flat out said by a goddess that Explosion is above Gods and devils.
Chomusuke never tanked Explosion too.

No, it is said by a Goddess that Explosion is called the strongest spell, it's the strongest spell known to mankind, and that it can destroy even Devils and Gods. Which is true, It's the strongest spell humans can use, and can kill Gods and Devils. Did I say anything about durability? Have I to say again that I'm not arguing for 6-B durability?

What was the spell you used just now?”

“That spell? It’s called Explosion, so called the strongest spell.”

Strongest!

“It’s the most powerful destructive force known to mankind. It doesn’t matter if the opponent is a god or a devil, Explosion is the ultimate offensive spell that can destroy anything in the world.”

Ultimate!

So yeah, exactly what I said. It's so called the strongest spell (true, people say that), it's the most destructive force known to mankind (also true). Nothing here contradicts my argument for 6-B Attack Potency for Vanir and Aqua at their strongest.

Tbf I'm kinda annoyed by the fact that most of your points are really just going against the verse itself. You just need to look at the previous CRTs.

I looked at them and saw you approving changes due to Kazuma's meaningless statements because you argued the author's intentions were there, which if fair enough, but my case is the same, though way stronger.

 

[FrenzyUND]

You're going against what's said, as shown with Explosion.
Also using false equivalence won't get you anywhere.

So now author intent doesnt matter ?

It does. And the fact you outright lie regarding Explosion shows how it goes against your vague reasonning for such a huge tier jump.

If you disagree then make a CRT.

You"re just saying "I think these are wrong, so I'm right".
It won't get you anywhere.

Now I'm really not adding more on this subject. I think others will be able to judge if your argument is shallow or not.

I did my case using higher standars than what was used before to aprove previous things. But anyway, we won't get to anywhere, if despite changes with lower standard were approved, but this isn't, I can't do anything about it.

Edit: Just to finish, Chomusuke tanking Explosion (was knocked out but survived):

“Explosion!”

A person wearing a low hood calmly chanted the spell.

In contrast to her calm tone, the power of the spell was devastating.

The boom shook the air and was accompanied with a scorching blast.

The giant black beast chasing me was easily blown away.

And you claimed I was lying about Explosion, when you told me a bunch of "lies" about Eris, Aqua Goddess form, Vanir true body, etc, but I just said it were wrong statements, not lies.

 

[Popted2]

Guys can we talk about this in another thread please
let's apply the changes accepted here and what you guys are talking about we discuss in another thread

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just apply the changes yeah

 

[MidnightDawn1]

She already has City Block resistance to magic attack based on her surviving Explosion at the time, despite the state she was in.

Oh so you do agree with me cool!

But she did seem quite confident that she could survive volume 17 Megumins explosion.

He just said it would make it harder to read.

Yes due to their strength. Or holy nature. But whatever I don't feel this going anywhere so let's call it a Draw.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Aqua is clearly said to have incarnated as a human, unlike Eris who stomp Zarachruste or appear at the festival

Honestly, where is this coming from?

I've read the series at least 3x now and I haven't seen a single statement from Aqua that suggests she is a Human.

Yet it seems to be such a common statement in the fandom.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Cell considered Goku dangerous, but his self destruct one shot him

B-But Goku willingly died?

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Yeah Okay, I'll start to apply the changes.

Though I remember most of them. A nice little reminder would be nice.

 

[Popted2]

Yeah Okay, I'll start to apply the changes.

Though I remember most of them. A nice little reminder would be nice.

Everything except the ap upgrades for Konosuba are accepted

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Also I forgot to mention it. But if it's cool with you QuasiYuri and Everyone else.

I also added Below Human Level lifting strength.

For Kazuma. Due to him being able to lift Megumin (as he carries her everyday)