Konosuba and Sentouin Scaling Part 2: Speed, Attack Potency, Intelligene and other Miscellaneous things

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I agree with Yuri's arguments.

Also, you should structure your CRTs better, I can barely make heads and tails of this.

 

[Rez]

Don't know much about Sentouin so I will write my opinion about konosuba upgrades

Agreed with cross scaling speed between both series so agreed with a verse wide possible supersonic speed rating

Kazuma:
ap upgrade:I disagree
Intelligence upgrade:I agree
Speed upgrade:I agree

Instead of an tier upgrade Darkness should have a + written in her profile for being stronger than her previous selfs by an unknown amount and this should also affect Aqua and Iris

Agreed with Megumin ap upgrade but I think a calc should be done for the mountain feat as the small mountain was stated to be way way bigger than Tokyo dome and we can actually Google it's size

 

[QuasiYuri]

Don't know much about Sentouin so I will write my opinion about konosuba upgrades

Agreed with cross scaling speed between both series so agreed with a verse wide possible supersonic speed rating

Kazuma:
ap upgrade:I disagree
Intelligence upgrade:I agree
Speed upgrade:I agree

Instead of an tier upgrade Darkness should have a + written in her profile for being stronger than her previous selfs by an unknown amount and this should also affect Aqua and Iris

Agreed with Megumin ap upgrade but I think a calc should be done for the mountain feat as the small mountain was stated to be way way bigger than Tokyo dome and we can actually Google it's size

The Tokyo Dome thing is a turtle, which is already calced and is the god tier's current rating.

 

[Rez]

The Tokyo Dome thing is a turtle, which is already calced and is the god tier's current rating.

Oh but I still agree with Megumin upgrade since she has more statements saying she has reduced mountains to pebble

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Also, you should structure your CRTs better, I can barely make heads and tails of this.

a You problem. I listed every character and what I want for them in order with headings very clearly.

And seeing how no one else seemed to have a problem reading what I wrote. It's obviously not me that needs to do better .

 

[Popted2]

Don't know much about Sentouin so I will write my opinion about konosuba upgrades

Agreed with cross scaling speed between both series so agreed with a verse wide possible supersonic speed rating

Kazuma:
ap upgrade:I disagree
Intelligence upgrade:I agree
Speed upgrade:I agree

Instead of an tier upgrade Darkness should have a + written in her profile for being stronger than her previous selfs by an unknown amount and this should also affect Aqua and Iris

Agreed with Megumin ap upgrade but I think a calc should be done for the mountain feat as the small mountain was stated to be way way bigger than Tokyo dome and we can actually Google it's size

for the sentouin thing for Agent Six ap upgrade i can confirm that is true Six demonstrated many times of being comparable to the other characters and the proves are the ones of the op Scans

 

[Rez]

for the sentouin thing for Agent Six ap upgrade i can confirm that is true Six demonstrated many times of being comparable to the other characters and the proves are the ones of the op Scans

That's good but I am pretty sure his feat will first need to be calculated and evaluated

 

[QuasiYuri]

Oh but I still agree with Megumin upgrade since she has more statements saying she has reduced mountains to pebble

Wouldn't change her tier though, and iirc the translations had been compared in the past, with this scene saying boulder in another.
Although it doesnt change much.

 

[Rez]

Wouldn't change her tier though, and iirc the translations had been compared in the past, with this scene saying boulder in another.
Although it doesnt change much.

Oh I see but I guess we should at least add a + to her tier

 

[Antvasima]

a You problem. I listed every character and what I want for them in order with headings very clearly.

And seeing how no one else seemed to have a problem reading what I wrote. It's obviously not me that needs to do better .

Well, your first post really isn't well-organised.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what do you think should be done here Yuri?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Everything which isn't AP upgrade for the Konosuba part is fine.

I'm not knowledgeable on Sentouin, but it seems like what's accepted isn't too outlandish.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then, but let's wait a bit to see if more of the people I sent a notification to reply first.

 

[Cloozuma]

Agree with Yuri.

 

[Elizhaa]

From what I read, I am also fine with Yuri's agreements.

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the replies.

What Yuri has accepted can probably be applied then.

 

[Popted2]

yay

 

[Antvasima]

Tell us here when you are done.

Also, please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

Also, when you apply this revision, please insert a link to this thread into the edit summary boxes, so your edits are not mistaken for vandalism.

 

[Popted2]

Tell us here when you are done.

Also, please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

Also, when you apply this revision, please insert a link to this thread into the edit summary boxes, so your edits are not mistaken for vandalism.

Ehm Mr Ant just to be sure you weren't talking about me right?
cause i said yay just because the revisions can be applied not because i wanted to do by myself

 

[Antvasima]

I was giving general instructions.

 

[Popted2]

I was giving general instructions.

ok ok

 

[Popted2]

just to be sure what did you accept Yuri?

Everything which isn't AP upgrade for the Konosuba part is fine.

I'm not knowledgeable on Sentouin, but it seems like what's accepted isn't too outlandish.

 

[Antvasima]

just to be sure what did you accept Yuri?

@QuasiYuri

 

[QuasiYuri]

just to be sure what did you accept Yuri?

Everything but the AP upgrade of Kazuma, Darkness, Eris, Megumin, etc...

 

[Popted2]

ok i just want to say something that Six should have Fire manipulation since he stated that he can buy a flamethrower using the evil points, also the other Combat agents used these flanethrowers ordered using the evil points, and possibly Invisibility Since Six used A cape that uses a electromagnetic field to bend light making anyone invisible to the naked eye that was given by Combat Agent Ten in chapter 32 and possibly still holds it

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Quick question what's the reasoning for Vanir being City Block level?

He hasn't shown any feats of that calibre in the entire series. So shouldn't he 9-A just like the other DKG

 

[QuasiYuri]

Quick question what's the reasoning for Vanir being City Block level?

He hasn't shown any feats of that calibre in the entire series. So shouldn't he 9-A just like the other DKG

He directly scales to Gods through his rank and statements.
He's also repeateadly said and shown to be above anyone in the verse not named Eris or Nyarlathotep.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

He directly scales to Gods through his rank and statements.

And the Gods get their City Block rating from? Again they haven't show feats close to this level.

Except for possible creating the universe.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Since this is the correct thread, I want to repost my case for the crossover scaling of AP for certain Konosuba characters.

First, simple context for the Alice's reactor:

"[Final Report]

Agent 6 has succeeded in damaging the relations between the Kingdom of Grace and one of its neighbors."

The said neighboring country mentioned above:

"We left Grace Kingdom in the early morning and arrived at the foreign nation of Toris just when the sun was setting. "

CWBD V2, Ch2.

Early morning definition: 6-9 a.m [ https://wgntv.com/weather/how-do-you-define-daytime-and-evening-times-in-a-weather-forecast/ ]

So it took around 10 hours of a car trip to just one of the neighboring nations, Toris. With 10 hours you can drive all over France.

The blast would destroy the Kingdom of Grace, and all the neighboring countries as already mentioned:

Oh? Is that how you want to play? All right then, give it your best shot. Even if you do manage to take me out, my generator will detonate, and this kingdom, as well as every neighboring nation, will be caught in the blast.”

-CWBD V5, Final Chapter.

In comparison the Tsar Bomb which is considered 7-B/7-A can hardly do anything to France:

So at the very least Alice's 6-B, Country Level, no? And if we go with the lowest estimate, that there're only two neighbors due to the plural, Toris and another one, and the other was from around the same distance, we would have at least 3 Frances being destroyed, and that's ignoring the actual size of the countries, and including only the distance it takes to travel between them.

And Lilith is Alice's creator, she made her reactor and other androids, there's no reason she doesn't have access to her own technology. So I'd say Lilith is definitely 6-B as well.

Another thing is the fact that Lilith is more powerful than the entire Kisaragi Organization if we exclude the other two Supreme Leaders, that despite Kisaragi being more powerful than all countries combined:

Combatants Will Be Dispatched!, Vol. 1
Currently, there are no countries that can overthrow this large organization with military strength. Although there is some resistance economically, it’s only a matter of time before it’s resolved.

Combatants Will Be Dispatched!, Vol. 5

While more agents start nodding in agreement, Alice throws a wrench into the plan.
“Requesting the assistance of the Supreme Leaders is a no-go. The report we recently sent resulted in more punishment for Lady Lilith. Finally fed up, she threw a fit and launched a rebellion. She’s been calling on mutants and agents to join her but hasn’t received any support so far, so she’s holed up by herself. Since only another Supreme Leader can deal with her, we won’t get any help from them until they have her under control.”

And we have a clear comparison between the Kisaragi Corporation, Lilith, and Konosuba.

Agent 22's job was to set the invasion of the Konosuba planet, Vanir finds this out with his power, and despite knowing of Kisaragi's power, which includes them being at least country level, he dismiss them as nothing relevant, mocking Agent 22 and leaving:

I’ve been living in the current location for five weeks. The strangeness of this planet is on another level. On a certain day, a mask-wearing, sturdy-looking man saw right through my identity. He said to me, “You took the trouble to come from such a faraway place, being a spy must be difficult.” I don’t know how he found out. I had no choice but to fire at him so that he could never speak of this. I was certain that I fired a bullet into the mask-wearing man’s heart, but that giant man wasn’t the least bit bothered while he laughed loudly as he left.

CWBD SS

We have also Lilith's interaction with an Angel, a servant of the Gods, of which Aqua had many working for her:

“ーAnd that’s why I was such an important person in heaven and regarded so highly. I had many angels reporting to me, and every day I was waited on hand and foot. I could get any sort of snacks and drinks that I wanted, and as many of them as I wanted. It really was a wonderful time.”

Konosuba Yorimichi.

“What’s wrong, Lady Lilith? You’re the sort who’d pick your nose and shrug if God himself came down and started lecturing you, right?”

“What the hell, Six?! No, I wouldn’t pick my nose. I mean, you can feel it, can’t you? Aren’t your instincts telling you that thing isn’t something humanity should be insulting…?”

Likely reaching the same conclusion I have, Lilith begins looking around nervously.

“Hey, Six, why don’t we head back to Earth? I feel like this planet’s got too many potential problems.

Between an angel—a being connected to the very creation of the universe—appearing at random and extremely advanced tech being hidden underground, I think we’re in over our heads."

CWBD V4, Ch2.

And Lilith continues:

While I wheel along the despairing Grimm, Lilith is lecturing Alice behind me.

“Listen to me, Alice. You’re an android, so I know you don’t have it, but people have this thing called instinct. And that was a presence that people simply cannot challenge. It’s brave to stand up to the powerful, but that was on a completely different level.”

CWBD V4, Ch2.

If it wasn't clear enough that Gods scale above the angel, the angel states herself to be a servant of the gods:

“I had only come to this doomed world on a whim. However…if you insist on committing this act of blasphemy upon a servant of the gods" CWBD V4, Ch2.

The author's intentions were very clear, he portrays the entities from Heaven and Hell as more powerful than country level Kisaragi.

Vanir or Aqua never displays this level of power, but we have to keep in mind that Aqua's powers are far from her peak, and Vanir doesn't use his true form, of which he fought the Gods in the past and didn't even lost a life, since he became Vanir II after being killed by Megumin, and the lore is that he shouldn't be a General of the Demon King because he's too powerful, fighting the Gods, while the Demon King only fight humans:

Konosuba V1

I might’ve fallen into the mortal world, causing my powers to be far from my peak, but I’m still a goddess…

Konosuba V17

Also, now that I’ve returned to Heaven, I’ll be able to use the full extent of my goddess power from now on. So you better watch how you treat me, otherwise you might receive divine punishment.”

Vanir Spinoff

Even though we had come to slay the Demon King’s general, we never thought that we would encounter an opponent of this level…

The figure before us is a duke-class devil, a great devil that had once fought against the gods with the future of the world at stake.

This type of existence shouldn’t be the subordinate under the Demon King that only fought against humans, but…!

So I'd say we make a separate key for the such of Aqua (full Goddess power) and Vanir (real body) as being at least 6-B, with the reason being: they're more powerful than Lilith and the Kisaragi Coorporation.

It's reasonable to assume the same applies to Eris as well, and her Goddess key gets the same update.

 

[QuasiYuri]

And the Gods get their City Block rating from? Again they haven't show feats close to this level.

Except for possible creating the universe.

They scale to the turtle island, which is a god too.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Regarding the Sentouin thing, I'm pretty sure it is a outlier for the Konosuba dudes since all the top tier would be upgraded as such, one of them being an angel Wiz completely outmatched.

Despite their consistent feats being several tiers below this. Hell, Konosuba's genius creator made Destroyer, whose core explosing only threatened a city and Wiz, someone who later easily bodied an angel without any change since then, couldn't beat it by herself.

Also Vanir just mocks Six's job, not the organisation.

For these reasons, I find scaling highly unlikely, if not incoherent.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

They scale to the turtle island, which is a god too.

W-When did the turtle destroy a City Block or anything of that calibre?

And besides Vanir should probably get downgraded as he considered Iris Strong despite her being Small Building Level.

“It has been some time, the granddaughter of the chirimen store. It seems like you’ve gotten stronger since we last met. Even Moi finds it hard to see through you now.”

Aince ya know "Getting atronger is valid enough for a tier upgrade".

Meaning Vanir should be put at the same level as the others DKG.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Regarding the Sentouin thing,

Not that I necessarily agree with it but I'll argue in FrenzyUND's stead.

one of them being an angel Wiz completely outmatched.

Aqua A Goddess was weakened upon going to the mortal realm. Why would it be any different for a mere Angel especially a Fallen one?

. Hell, Konosuba's genius creator made Destroyer, whose core explosing only threatened a city and Wiz,

1. He wasn't intelligent at all he just had a OP cheat skill that allowed him to have make anything in existence so long as he imagined it.

2. He didn't create the core The Legendary Coronaite is naturally occurring source of magical
energy that run for all eternity.

And I'm pretty sure it only threatened Wi due to it being Magical as only Enchanted/Magical attacks can harm Liches.

someone who later easily bodied an angel without any change since then, couldn't beat it by herself.

Didn't she defeats Rookie Killers, The Greater Sprit (Chutulu of) on the same level as The Winter Solider.

Along with help out killing monsters constantly around town like she's literally a famous Adventurer.

So she probably got stronger but again the Angel was most definitely weakened and the Explosion caught him Off-Defense (Konosuba characters are like DB characters where if they're caught off guard they are weakened).

Also, Vanir just mocks Six's job, not the organisation.

I mean he acknowledged he's a spy and should have had a NO.22 memories.

Meaning he should know of Kirisagi power and what they plan to do here.

And Vanir has already made it clear in Canon that he doesn't accept those who try to take over the world like the DKA because he loves the Dark emotions that Humans Give him.

For these reasons, I find scaling highly unlikely, if not incoherent

Eh Kinda same I'm more neutral about it.

But at least you provided reasoning for why you don't believe it unlike Konosuba Downplayers on Reddit that can't accept the verse possibly being strong.

 

[QuasiYuri]

W-When did the turtle destroy a City Block or anything of that calibre?

It merely moving qualify for the tier, profiles have the calc linked.

And besides Vanir should probably get downgraded as he considered Iris Strong despite her being Small Building Level.

“It has been some time, the granddaughter of the chirimen store. It seems like you’ve gotten stronger since we last met. Even Moi finds it hard to see through you now.”

Aince ya know "Getting atronger is valid enough for a tier upgrade".

Meaning Vanir should be put at the same level as the others DKG.

He's repeateadly said and shown to tower everyone else, Iris being able to resist his eyes isn't enough to ignore everything about him.

 

[Antvasima]

What Yuri has accepted can probably be applied then.

Is somebody who knows how to edit properly willing to handle this?

 

[QuasiYuri]

.Aqua A Goddess was weakened upon going to the mortal realm. Why would it be any different for a mere Angel especially a Fallen one?

She's a different case, since she became human once descending, weakening her greatly. It is especially said to be special, and Eris descending as herself didn't have any restrictions.
Duke is closer to the latter.

1. He wasn't intelligent at all he just had a OP cheat skill that allowed him to have make anything in existence so long as he imagined it.

2. He didn't create the core The Legendary Coronaite is naturally occurring source of magical
energy that run for all eternity.

And I'm pretty sure it only threatened Wi due to it being Magical as only Enchanted/Magical attacks can harm Liches.

I don't remember him having such skill, he even considered the stuff he made impossible.

Also what I meant is that Wiz couldn't destroy it even with her strongest spell.

Didn't she defeats Rookie Killers, The Greater Sprit (Chutulu of) on the same level as The Winter Solider.

Along with help out killing monsters constantly around town like she's literally a famous Adventurer.

So she probably got stronger but again the Angel was most definitely weakened and the Explosion caught him Off-Defense (Konosuba characters are like DB characters where if they're caught off guard they are weakened).

Rookie Killer are more top tier monsters.
Nyarlathotep was weakened by Megumin's before Wiz attacked her, and Explosion's what it is.

Also she was a top tier adventurer before becoming a lich.

I mean he acknowledged he's a spy and should have had a NO.22 memories.

Meaning he should know of Kirisagi power and what they plan to do here.

And Vanir has already made it clear in Canon that he doesn't accept those who try to take over the world like the DKA because he loves the Dark emotions that Humans Give him.

DKA?

Eh Kinda same I'm more neutral about it.

But at least you provided reasoning for why you don't believe it unlike Konosuba Downplayers on Reddit that can't accept the verse possibly being strong.

I wouldn't mind Vanir being tier 9, 5 or even 1. All that matter is that it makes the most sense imo.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

DKA

Oh sorry Konoslang on other sites.

DK= Demon King

DKG= Demon King General.

DKA= Demon King Army.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

It merely moving qualify for the tier, profiles have the calc linked.

Ahh, I see. I don't get it but I'll just assume it's valid lmao.

He's repeateadly said and shown to tower everyone else, Iris being able to resist his eyes isn't enough to ignore everything about him.

He's also Consistently shown to have to put varying amounts of effort to see through characters depending on their strength.

He has to do it to Wiz. He has to do it too Aqua (Though that's also partially due to her Holy nature).

And he also had to do it Volume 13.

Meaning Iris was approaching his levels of strength due to her levelling up and getting stronger.

But since that isn't considered valid enough for an upgrade. I'm pretty sure it's valid enough for a downgrade.

Like seriously if it was a quote from the Dust Novel. I would understand.

But Bakken Is a Spinoff written by the Author there would be no reason for the author to add in that statement if he wasn't trying to make a case of Iris getting stronger.

And you also seem to forget that Iris is also consistently stated and portrayed as being above everyone else.

In fact, the Author even directly states that she's the strongest girl in the afterword.

"And the strongest girl equipped with the strongest sword and the strongest armour"- Volume 17 Afterword.

Meaning as far I'm concerned Either Iris scales up to ion know Building (8-C) to Large Building Level (High 8-C).

Or.

Vanir scales down from City Block Level (7-B) to Small Building Level (9-A)

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Oh yeah and Also Shouldn't Aqua, Darkness and Vanir scale to Megumins explosion.

Darkness has a high enough Magical Defense to survive it.

Vanir and Aqua surpass Megumin in Mana and Magic Power greatly to the point where it doesn't seem far fetched to believee they are capable of the Destructive feats or is it Attack Potency?