Kingdom Hearts III & Knuckles: The Ultima Werse additions

[Dziga]

Yeh, 2-C is pretty doubtful. 3-A Is fine.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Also pretty sure this means that the High 4-Cs that arent 3-A would go back to 5-A with that planet confirmation thing.

No actually, since the worlds are almost always accompanied by a Sun/Star, plus we also have statements that the worlds are stars sometimes.

 

[Dziga]

The worlds aren't stars for obvious reasons, that statement is regarding the light hearts of the worlds emanate.

 

[Axl233]

Okay just ignore me then,im gonna go back to my corner

 

[Dziga]

Are there any evidence for those realms being parallel to the world of light? If so then likely 2-C is acceptable.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

AxI233 That would be that yes but there is no evidence KH created those realms, especially the RoD since the Darkness are implied to have been there before the Light.

 

[Dziga]

The concept of darkness existed before light, but if I'm not mistakes, the Realm of Darkness is supposed to be the counterpart to the Realm of Light and exists in the opposite side of Kingdom Hearts.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

It's pretty much that but the RoD is likely a part or the Darkness themselves. Since KH is the source of all light in the universe, that would mean it is somehow older than KH itself although it could have been shaped at the same time that the RoL (wich doesn't avoid the fact that Darkness are older than Light and KH).

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

The Realm of Darkness should be its own universe entirely, it's literally axed off from the Realm of Light and doesn't even have a substantial time passage to it unlike the World of Light does for every world.

I don't know if this is going to be brought up further, but we already agreed on the previous thread with Azathoth to settle on a possibly 3-A scaling, in which it most importantly applies to those who were central at the Keyblade Graveyard obviously.

 

[Bobsican]

"In the world of Kingdom Hearts, not restricted to just people and animals, but every existence contains a heart. The collection of all kinds of hearts would become the great heart ― Kingdom Hearts."

Doesn't disprove my point whatsoever.

We are aware that the multiverse of the series contains more than one universe, meaning that KH is 2-C in power.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"We are aware that the multiverse of the series contains more than one universe, meaning that KH is 2-C in power."

Umm, no...Especially when there is no evidence saying KH created the RoD. 2-C is not a thing.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Kingdom Hearts wiping everything away is the feat it would be based on, not creating.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Except wiping out the WoD was not something that was going to happen. Xehanort was only targeting the World of Light, not Darkness.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Except wiping out the WoD was not something that was going to happen. Xehanort was only targeting the World of Light, not Darkness.

There is a Translation saying the complete opposite of what you're trying to preach, Xehanort states here that he was going to reset the world to a blank state where nothing existed, including light and darkness. His entire goal was to have both of them exist in a balance.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

And to make this a conclusive thing as well, Nomura outright states with photographic proof later on in that chain that the world became imbalanced and Xehanort was going to have to recreate it from scratch, that includes light and darkness, not just the light.

 

[Bobsican]

"opening this door arguably gives that person control over all worlds and all people."

(Regarding Kingdom Hearts itself)

"At the center of the heart Xehanort has stolen was "Kingdom Hearts," which attracts tremendous darkness itself and attempts to send any and all matter back into its depths."

"When a Heartless is born, these entities disappear from the realm of light, to be reborn as entirely new beings in a completely different realm" (right at the end of the before-mentioned Ansem report)

Thoughts?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There is a Translation saying the complete opposite of what you're trying to preach, Xehanort states here that he was going to reset the world to a blank state where nothing existed, including light and darkness. His entire goal was to have both of them exist in a balance.

I'm not trying to preach anything. Just going by information I know from the game I played. Thanks for assuming I knew of this. I will address this soon as I see issues with it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Mmmm. I'm not buying it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

btw, where is the link to this interview by Nomura?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So I will say that this argument is 1000x better that "Worlds are universes".

Anyway, I have been talking with Ever and he has this to say.

"The problem with that is he only refers to this in relation to the Realm of Light. The Realm of Darkness is its own separate thing that doesn't affect the Realm of Light unless people in the Realm of Light do something. There is no true balance in the Realm of Light."

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Mmmm. I'm not buying it.

This seems to be a thing you did on the last thread as well. Unless you're going to give reasoning as to why this is wrong, why are you just saying it's wrong out of the blue?

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

btw, where is the link to this interview by Nomura?

There are translated interviews here and you can find the specific segments that one dude posted in the series of tweets later on in it, CTRL+F keywords if you need to see the specific parts.

 

[Bobsican]

Thoughts on this? "Trascend space and time"

 

[Dziga]

In context it's just referring to Xehanort's time traveling.

 

[Bobsican]

Awwwwww...

Anything else?

 

[Dziga]

Everyone agrees with 3-A, If you have a list of everyone that scales I think this can be applied.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Dziga That's simple:

- All those who participated in the Final Battle in KH3.

- Likely the Top-Tiers of KH Chi (Ephemer, Dandelion Leaders, Protagonist, Fortellers, Maste of Masters) due to scaling to Ephemer who summoned the Keyblades to defeat the Demon Tide... As any other interpretation doesn't make sense.

 

[Bobsican]

Everyone agrees with 3-A, If you have a list of everyone that scales I think this can be applied.

Pretty much what´s at the OP really.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

...B-But what about the Kingom Hearts Unchained cast though [Specifically Ephemer , Protagonist, Dandelion Leaders, Fortellers, and Master of Masters , and Co. via scaling to the Giant Demon Tower] ? I get the others were agreed upon... But besides two people who seem to be knowledgable... No one else seemed to say anything

 

[Imaginym]

@The 2nd Existential Seed I am neutral on that, but only because I'm not sure about the cases for both sides, although I do keep up with the UX story.

Please, for the sake of my understanding & comprehensiveness, would you be willing to list the reasons for & against both sides? Even if the "against" reasons are very much longshots, we should probably be thorough.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I understand being neutral... I am for the most part, but leaning for agreeing with it.. Just trying to figure out the scaling system for UX if this is accepted.

The Case for both sides to UX being 3-A or ? ... Because the only one who was against that was Bob ... The others agreed with it who have responded to it.

 

[Imaginym]

Well, supposing it really is the foretellers (& presumably Ephemera) commanding the Keyblade Legion, I suppose it'd make sense to scale them & their peers.

And the Demon Tide has been consistently comparable to Aqua. Do we use that as the basis to not dismiss it beating the cast as an outlier/PIS?

Alternatively, considering DT absorbed A TON of extra Heartless (And I think maybe even Nobodies & Unversed.), this could be considered an alternate form, given the presumably increased power.

So I guess beating back the DT makes sense as a justification.

In the interest of thoroughness, if there are opposing arguments, I'd like to know them, but given how I've thought about it now, I feel inclined to agree.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It makes sense for Ephemer to specifically do it considering he was the only presented who told Sora if he needed assistance... Not the Fortellers as they weren't even significantly a part of KH3 until when they were revived by Luxu/Xigbar.

The problem was this Demon Tide was amped significantly by several more heartless than normal and created an entire gigantic mass of them... So it is likely to percieve it is ludicrously superior to it's predecessors in power. I also agree with that since it was considered a great threat in/out of the Realm of Darkness.

... Whelp... I agree with that.

The only opposing argument is if it would be considered PIS.... Which I severely doubt since it was to introduce and connect KH3 to Unchained and to help Ventus regain his lost memories subconsciously (which is the only way him remembering Chirithy makes sense)

 

[Imaginym]

It makes sense for Ephemer to specifically do it considering he was the only presented who told Sora if he needed assistance... Not the Fortellers as they weren't even significantly a part of KH3 until when they were revived by Luxu/Xigbar.

Were the Foreteller's Keyblades not leading the Keyblade Legion?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It... Was the Dandelion Leaders' Keyblades.

 

[Imaginym]

Ah. My apologies. Been a while since I watched, & since I often watch on low quality, I didn't distinguish the Keyblades very well. Sorry.

Dandelion Leader's Keyblades should be reasonable, right? That's Lauriam, Ventus, Brain, Ephemer(a) & Skuld, right?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Correct. Since it's explicitly 5 Starlight Keyblades which lead it... The very five Dandelion Leaders since they have this keyblade as of becoming the Leaders (also because none of the Fortellers use these keyblades anytime during the series). Here are some images of it.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

In context it's just referring to Xehanort's time traveling.

Why can't we assume he's doing the action of time travel due to him transcending time and space?

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Everyone agrees with 3-A, If you have a list of everyone that scales I think this can be applied.

A potential 2-C rating still needs to be evaluated because Xehanort affecting both realms is a thing from statements now.

 

[Imaginym]

In context it's just referring to Xehanort's time traveling.

Why can't we assume he's doing the action of time travel due to him transcending time and space?

Because haven't the means to Time Travel in KH already been established? It's a power that can be given to others, like with how Ansem gave it to Maleficent, explaining how the real Maleficent ended up in the data Enchanted Dominion in UX.

To time travel, you must cast aside your physical body, & in most cases, just become just a Heart; Ansem could do so because he's a Heartless & as such, made of Darkness, IIRC.

There's also the various rules about travelling forward or backwards I'm sure we all know, too.

Point is, the prerequisites & means of obtaining KH Time Travel seem different from "control space and time". Presumably, you don't need to literally control all space & the whole timeline to time travel if such easier conditions to achieve it are available.