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Based on?
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King vs Oden
- Thread starter Eseseso
- Start date
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1.Roger and Garp were 39-40 during the God Valley Incident. This was Roger's peak, as he wasn't sick back then. Garp became the Hero of the Marines after he and Roger defeated the Rocks crew.
2.Whitebeard hit his prime 2 years after the God Valley Incident, at the age of 38.
3.Shanks is currently 39.
4.Teach is currently 40.
5.Oden was 39 when he fought Kaido.
Etc.
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Do you care to elaborate why Oden wouldn't be able to hurt Flame-On King?
Also, what does King have that could injure Oden? Because a haki imbued, named attack from Roger only gave Oden minor injuries and Oden returned to Wano many times stronger after his journey.
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You just said yourself why this was his peak. He was sick and died shortly after. Who's to say that he couldn't have gotten stronger?
Where's your proof that he didn't get stronger? In fact, we know that he did, as when Garp fought Chinjao, he stated that he had to train and get stronger in order to overcome his strength:
Proof?
Proof that he can't grow stronger and that he's at his peak?
Proof that he's at his strongest?
Oden died before he could get any stronger, so we have no way of knowing if he could have gotten any stronger.
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I didn't say why, I stated what his peak was.
He was prime age.
So Garp>Roger?
Magazine 9.
Where is the proof that he can get stronger? Shanks became a Yonko a few years ago and is currently at the age where he would be considered to be in his prime.
Proof that he isn't? Unless he gets another df?
There is nothing that implies that he could have gotten stronger. When Oden returned to Wano, the narrator stated that he's "many times stronger", "invincible", and "triumphant". And when Oden went out to face Kaido, he told Toki in his letters that he has reached his limits and that if he fails to beat Kaido then nobody will be able to do so for 20 years.
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Yes. Prime Garp > Prime Roger, as Roger died prematurely while Garp consistently got stronger.
The fact that Haki Blooms exist and that it was explicitly stated that fighters can grow stronger in the heat of battle. Age is not a cap.
The fact that he can still develop his haki?
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- Thread starter
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Because Zoro's Enma attacks that cut Kaido's scales couldn't scratch Flame-On Oden.
His explosion nearly one-shot Zoro who ate a lightning bolt from Big Mom.
He can keep up in AP with Zoan + Buso Amps.
His flames can burn Oden and his Omori Karyudon could possibly kill Oden.
Also, Roger's attack made Oden bleed, that's not minor injuries.
And Oden still lost to Kaido, and Base Kaido matched a furious Post-Roger Oden.
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Lol, then why isn't Garp in Kaido's Top 5? Kaido faced the marines countless of times after all and yet never cared enough to put Garp in his list.
Also, didn't Garp and Sengoku have to team up to take Shiki down?
Has there been ever a character so far who haki bloomed aside from the Strawhats?
It clearly is.
He obviously prefers relying on his devil fruit powers. We don't even know if he has CoC.
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No proof he could.
I mean, he can damage Oden, and Oden can't damage him.
Roger was clearly not trying.
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Ace.
What?
Yup
Based on?
Thanks Sherlock. I'm saying that it's possible for him to get more powerful via that route, meaning that he isn't at his strongest per se.
I'm not going to debate with you. You're honestly so ridiculous with these takes.
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Please do, don't leave me here.
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So? Oden isn't Zoro.
And?
And?
Nice joke.
Doesn't matter because Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden was put on the same pedestal as Roger.
Except he didn't. Kaido had to blackmail Oden with hostages for 5 years and a rusty Oden still whooped him.
Oden used only one sword. Oden clashed evenly with Kaido while using only one sword.
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I guess Roger can't beat King either?
According to what can King damage Oden?
Headcanon. He used a haki imbued, named attack. That's leagues above anything King could pull out.
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It is actually based and real.
Roger wasn't trying.
He and Kaidou were equally rusty lmao.
Base Kaidou < Zoan Kaidou
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Unironically? There's not really any evidence he can cut the fire.
He could damage guys who could absolutely consume hits from Kaidou.
That doesn't mean he was trying. Lucci fought Luffy's Buso attacks, then got pounded by regular ones a few chapters later. See also,: Jinbe vs Who's-Who. Casual Buso < being angry.
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Meh.
You heard me right.
So Shiki>Garp>Sengoku>Roger?
Everything. Look at Old Whitebeard.
We don't know that.
That's ironic, coming from you.
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So? Why would she be in his Top 5 to begin with?
Shiki isn't even important enough for Kaido to consider putting him in his list.
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Not really.
Again, Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden~Roger.
What are you talking about? Kaido build his strength and forces up for 5 years to match Oden. Kaido wasn't rusty at all.
No shit. Zoan Kaido got oneshotted by Oden.
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IT IS LITERALLY AN EXAMPLE OF THE THING YOU SAID.
Shiki >= Garp >= Garp =< Sengoku
He was 72. Kaidou isn't even 60.
It is absolutely possible.
POV:
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Basic common sense should tell you that Roger fks someone like King up.
Meh.
There is no proof that he wasn't trying. It's a named attack. haki imbued, with coc put into it. Roger has never shown an attack stronger than that.
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Because she's better than Oden.
Kaidou only knew Shiki from back in the day, he probably thought he was dead.
Evidence, other than a casual slash, or a "pedestal"
Why would Oden just let himself get weak, if he was some kind of Space Lord Mother Mother like you're saying? Couldn't he just lift weights?
Excrement.
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Only when you go by the novels.
Nah Garp and Sengoku had to team up so that clearly means Shiki>Garp=Sengoku.
Kaido was 39 when he fought Oden and then spent the next 20 years with drinking, attempting to suicide, etc. He never fought a single top tier opponent since his fight with Oden, until his fight with Luffy.
Again, we don't know that.
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You're on your own
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If it was common sense, you could show it on a map.
POV:
Nyehehe, He-Man!! Behold, my BURDEN OF PROOF!!!
He didn't even know Oden, why would he be using that attack at full power on some random guy?
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Except she isn't. Oden's presence in Enma was enough to scare her. Kaido considers Big Mom to be pathetic, but fears Oden.
Kaido also only knew Roger, Whitebeard, and Rocks from back in the day, yet put them in his Top 5 despite the fact that they are dead.
Kaido compared Oden to Roger and Whitebeard in the Oden flashback, put them on the same pedestal in the present time. Oden had the strongest sword style, and Oda compared Kamusari and Togen Shirataki (or Totsuka). In the anime, Kaido imagined Roger, Garp, and Oden as the people who injured him the most, etc.
????
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The canon ones?
Ok, then Shiki > Roger >= Garp <= Sengoku
Kaidou fought Ashura Doji and Denjiro. He and King fought the Red Hair Pirates. He fought Kid and Killer. He had his first fight with Luffy, who was not a top-tier yet. He fought Big Mom. He fought 8 Scabbards and Izou. He was in the Two Yonko vs Supernovas fight. He fought Kinemon with his new full power. He fought Yamato. And THEN he fought top-tier Luffy.
DaMonkeMan
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I'll cover for you
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3-Homie Big Mom = Hybrid Kaidou.
Top 5? That's only 4 people.
"Pedestal" lmao.
Why would he let himself get rusty if he's some kind of sword-shooting super-Jesus?
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Thank you, I can only say "POV:
" so many times.
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Do a vs match up of it and see how it turns out.
Neither of us got proof for this one
He literally heard about Oden. He was excited to meet him. When we first see Roger in the flashback, he was eager to meet Oden, then in the next chapter, he gets excited that Oden is coming, and then runs at him to face him.
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Idk, King is wrecking Oden's shit, but Roger's actually competent. Maybe I'll add Queen and Jack.
Burden of Proof lies on you, you're making the positive claim.Neither of us got proof for this one
Why would he start by going all out? TBH HE ONESHOTTED ANYWAY LMAO.
DaMonkeMan
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Imma just say this
Hybrid Kaidou's Thunder Bagua hit Zoro before he could defend and Zoro survived it ( yes he was in bandages but he took Hakai immediately before it anyway )
King's explosion, which I'll dub "Jackpot", was implied to be very capable of severely wounding Zoro if he didn't use Armament to block it out.
So..
Hybrid Kaidou's Thunder Bagua hit Zoro before he could defend and Zoro survived it ( yes he was in bandages but he took Hakai immediately before it anyway )
King's explosion, which I'll dub "Jackpot", was implied to be very capable of severely wounding Zoro if he didn't use Armament to block it out.
So..
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You mean as "canon" as the vivre cards and databooks?
Nah, if we go by your logic then it's obviously: Shiki>Garp=Sengoku>Roger.
Who are not top tier.
No they didn't.
Not top tier.
Yup, not top tier.
Kaido told ACoC, pre Gear 5 Luffy that he doesn't remember the last time someone was able to go toe to toe with him. Kaido also called Big Mom pathetic and didn't put her in his Top 5.
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And it should burn far brighter than a Boro Breath, nay?
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You said that Kaido probably forgot about Shiki because he's from way back, but so are Roger and Rocks, yet he put those 3 in his Top 5 alongside Oden, Shanks, and Whitebeard.
Get to the point.
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No, I just meant he didn't see his full power.
It's a simple question.
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Nice joke. King is commander level and his daddy Kaido is scared of Oden.
Not really. You're the one who started making headcanons.
Why wouldn't he?
Except he didn't even manage to do that.
