King vs Oden

[Kachon123]

which is the prime age for One Piece characters

Based on?

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Based on?

1.Roger and Garp were 39-40 during the God Valley Incident. This was Roger's peak, as he wasn't sick back then. Garp became the Hero of the Marines after he and Roger defeated the Rocks crew.
2.Whitebeard hit his prime 2 years after the God Valley Incident, at the age of 38.
3.Shanks is currently 39.
4.Teach is currently 40.
5.Oden was 39 when he fought Kaido.
Etc.

 

[Eseseso]

Oden can't even hurt Flame-On King, who also has speed amps and dominates the ranged game.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Oden can't even hurt Flame-On King, who also has speed amps and dominates the ranged game.

Do you care to elaborate why Oden wouldn't be able to hurt Flame-On King?

Also, what does King have that could injure Oden? Because a haki imbued, named attack from Roger only gave Oden minor injuries and Oden returned to Wano many times stronger after his journey.

 

[Kachon123]

This was Roger's peak, as he wasn't sick back then.

You just said yourself why this was his peak. He was sick and died shortly after. Who's to say that he couldn't have gotten stronger?

Garp became the Hero of the Marines after he and Roger defeated the Rocks crew.

Where's your proof that he didn't get stronger? In fact, we know that he did, as when Garp fought Chinjao, he stated that he had to train and get stronger in order to overcome his strength:

2.Whitebeard hit his prime 2 years after the God Valley Incident, at the age of 38.

Proof?

3.Shanks is currently 39.

Proof that he can't grow stronger and that he's at his peak?

4.Teach is currently 40.

Proof that he's at his strongest?

5.Oden was 39 when he fought Kaido.

Oden died before he could get any stronger, so we have no way of knowing if he could have gotten any stronger.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

You just said yourself why this was his peak.

I didn't say why, I stated what his peak was.

He was sick and died shortly after. Who's to say that he couldn't have gotten stronger?

He was prime age.

Where's your proof that he didn't get stronger? In fact, we know that he did, as when Garp fought Chinjao, he stated that he had to train and get stronger in order to overcome his strength

So Garp>Roger?

Proof?

Magazine 9.

Proof that he can't grow stronger and that he's at his peak?

Where is the proof that he can get stronger? Shanks became a Yonko a few years ago and is currently at the age where he would be considered to be in his prime.

Proof that he's at his strongest?

Proof that he isn't? Unless he gets another df?

Oden died before he could get any stronger, so we have no way of knowing if he could have gotten any stronger.

There is nothing that implies that he could have gotten stronger. When Oden returned to Wano, the narrator stated that he's "many times stronger", "invincible", and "triumphant". And when Oden went out to face Kaido, he told Toki in his letters that he has reached his limits and that if he fails to beat Kaido then nobody will be able to do so for 20 years.

 

[Kachon123]

So Garp>Roger?

Yes. Prime Garp > Prime Roger, as Roger died prematurely while Garp consistently got stronger.

Where is the proof that he can get stronger?

The fact that Haki Blooms exist and that it was explicitly stated that fighters can grow stronger in the heat of battle. Age is not a cap.

Proof that he isn't?

The fact that he can still develop his haki?

 

[Eseseso]

Do you care to elaborate why Oden wouldn't be able to hurt Flame-On King?

Because Zoro's Enma attacks that cut Kaido's scales couldn't scratch Flame-On Oden.

Also, what does King have that could injure Oden? Because a haki imbued, named attack from Roger only gave Oden minor injuries and Oden returned to Wano many times stronger after his journey.

His explosion nearly one-shot Zoro who ate a lightning bolt from Big Mom.

He can keep up in AP with Zoan + Buso Amps.

His flames can burn Oden and his Omori Karyudon could possibly kill Oden.

Also, Roger's attack made Oden bleed, that's not minor injuries.

And Oden still lost to Kaido, and Base Kaido matched a furious Post-Roger Oden.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Yes. Prime Garp > Prime Roger, as Roger died prematurely while Garp consistently got stronger

Lol, then why isn't Garp in Kaido's Top 5? Kaido faced the marines countless of times after all and yet never cared enough to put Garp in his list.
Also, didn't Garp and Sengoku have to team up to take Shiki down?

The fact that Haki Blooms exist and that it was explicitly stated that fighters can grow stronger in the heat of battle

Has there been ever a character so far who haki bloomed aside from the Strawhats?

Age is not a cap

It clearly is.

The fact that he can still develop his haki?

He obviously prefers relying on his devil fruit powers. We don't even know if he has CoC.

 

[SlendVeny]

Do you care to elaborate why Oden wouldn't be able to

No proof he could.

Also, what does King have that could injure Oden?

I mean, he can damage Oden, and Oden can't damage him.

Because a haki imbued, named attack from Roger only gave Oden minor injuries and Oden returned to Wano many times stronger after his journey.

Roger was clearly not trying.

 

[Kachon123]

Has there been ever a character so far who haki bloomed aside from the Strawhats?

Ace.

Lol, then why isn't Garp in Kaido's Top 5?

What?

didn't Garp and Sengoku have to team up to take Shiki down?

Yup

It clearly is.

Based on?

He obviously prefers relying on his devil fruit powers. We don't even know if he has CoC.

Thanks Sherlock. I'm saying that it's possible for him to get more powerful via that route, meaning that he isn't at his strongest per se.


I'm not going to debate with you. You're honestly so ridiculous with these takes.

 

[SlendVeny]

Lol, then why isn't Garp in Kaido's Top 5?

Big Mom wasn't even in there.

Also, didn't Garp and Sengoku have to team up to take Shiki down?

Prime Shiki >= Roger.

 

[SlendVeny]

I'm not going to debate with you.

Please do, don't leave me here.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Because Zoro's Enma attacks that cut Kaido's scales couldn't scratch Flame-On King

So? Oden isn't Zoro.

His explosion nearly one-shot Zoro who ate a lightning bolt from Big Mom

And?

He can keep up in AP with Zoan + Buso Amps.

And?

His flames can burn Oden and his Omori Karyudon could possibly kill Oden.

Nice joke.

Also, Roger's attack made Oden bleed, that's not minor injuries.

Doesn't matter because Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden was put on the same pedestal as Roger.

And Oden still lost to Kaido

Except he didn't. Kaido had to blackmail Oden with hostages for 5 years and a rusty Oden still whooped him.

and Base Kaido matched a furious Post-Roger Oden.

Oden used only one sword. Oden clashed evenly with Kaido while using only one sword.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

No proof he could

I guess Roger can't beat King either?

I mean, he can damage Oden, and Oden can't damage him

According to what can King damage Oden?

Roger was clearly not trying.

Headcanon. He used a haki imbued, named attack. That's leagues above anything King could pull out.

 

[SlendVeny]

Nice joke.

It is actually based and real.

Doesn't matter because Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden was put on the same pedestal as Roger.

Roger wasn't trying.

Except he didn't. Kaido had to blackmail Oden with hostages for 5 years and a rusty Oden still whooped him.

He and Kaidou were equally rusty lmao.

Oden used only one sword. Oden clashed evenly with Kaido while using only one sword.

Base Kaidou < Zoan Kaidou

 

[SlendVeny]

I guess Roger can't beat King either?

Unironically? There's not really any evidence he can cut the fire.

According to what can King damage Oden?

He could damage guys who could absolutely consume hits from Kaidou.

Headcanon. He used a haki imbued, named attack. That's leagues above anything King could pull out.

That doesn't mean he was trying. Lucci fought Luffy's Buso attacks, then got pounded by regular ones a few chapters later. See also,: Jinbe vs Who's-Who. Casual Buso < being angry.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Ace

Meh.

What?

You heard me right.

Yup

So Shiki>Garp>Sengoku>Roger?

Based on?

Everything. Look at Old Whitebeard.

I'm saying that it's possible for him to get more powerful via that route

We don't know that.

You're honestly so ridiculous with these takes.

That's ironic, coming from you.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Big Mom wasn't even in there

So? Why would she be in his Top 5 to begin with?

Prime Shiki >= Roger.

Shiki isn't even important enough for Kaido to consider putting him in his list.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

It is actually based and real

Not really.

Roger wasn't trying

Again, Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden~Roger.

He and Kaidou were equally rusty lmao

What are you talking about? Kaido build his strength and forces up for 5 years to match Oden. Kaido wasn't rusty at all.

Base Kaidou < Zoan Kaidou

No shit. Zoan Kaido got oneshotted by Oden.

 

[SlendVeny]

Meh.

IT IS LITERALLY AN EXAMPLE OF THE THING YOU SAID.

So Shiki>Garp>Sengoku>Roger?

Shiki >= Garp >= Garp =< Sengoku

Everything. Look at Old Whitebeard.

He was 72. Kaidou isn't even 60.

We don't know that.

It is absolutely possible.

That's ironic, coming from you.

POV:

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Unironically? There's not really any evidence he can cut the fire

Basic common sense should tell you that Roger fks someone like King up.

He could damage guys who could absolutely consume hits from Kaidou

Meh.

That doesn't mean he was trying

There is no proof that he wasn't trying. It's a named attack. haki imbued, with coc put into it. Roger has never shown an attack stronger than that.

 

[SlendVeny]

So? Why would she be in his Top 5 to begin with?

Because she's better than Oden.

Shiki isn't even important enough for Kaido to consider putting him in his list.

Kaidou only knew Shiki from back in the day, he probably thought he was dead.

Again, Roger>>>>>King, and Prime Oden~Roger.

Evidence, other than a casual slash, or a "pedestal"

What are you talking about? Kaido build his strength and forces up for 5 years to match Oden. Kaido wasn't rusty at all.

Why would Oden just let himself get weak, if he was some kind of Space Lord Mother Mother like you're saying? Couldn't he just lift weights?

No shit. Zoan Kaido got oneshotted by Oden.

Excrement.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

IT IS LITERALLY AN EXAMPLE OF THE THING YOU SAID

Only when you go by the novels.

Shiki >= Garp >= Garp =< Sengoku

Nah Garp and Sengoku had to team up so that clearly means Shiki>Garp=Sengoku.

He was 72. Kaidou isn't even 60

Kaido was 39 when he fought Oden and then spent the next 20 years with drinking, attempting to suicide, etc. He never fought a single top tier opponent since his fight with Oden, until his fight with Luffy.

It is absolutely possible

Again, we don't know that.

 

[Kachon123]

Please do, don't leave me here.

You're on your own

 

[SlendVeny]

Basic common sense should tell you that Roger fks someone like King up.

If it was common sense, you could show it on a map.

Meh.

POV:

There is no proof that he wasn't trying.

Nyehehe, He-Man!! Behold, my BURDEN OF PROOF!!!

It's a named attack. haki imbued, with coc put into it. Roger has never shown an attack stronger than that.

He didn't even know Oden, why would he be using that attack at full power on some random guy?

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Because she's better than Oden

Except she isn't. Oden's presence in Enma was enough to scare her. Kaido considers Big Mom to be pathetic, but fears Oden.

Kaidou only knew Shiki from back in the day, he probably thought he was dead

Kaido also only knew Roger, Whitebeard, and Rocks from back in the day, yet put them in his Top 5 despite the fact that they are dead.

Evidence, other than a casual slash, or a "pedestal"

Kaido compared Oden to Roger and Whitebeard in the Oden flashback, put them on the same pedestal in the present time. Oden had the strongest sword style, and Oda compared Kamusari and Togen Shirataki (or Totsuka). In the anime, Kaido imagined Roger, Garp, and Oden as the people who injured him the most, etc.

Why would Oden just let himself get weak, if he was some kind of Space Lord Mother Mother like you're saying? Couldn't he just lift weights?

????

 

[SlendVeny]

Only when you go by the novels.

The canon ones?

Nah Garp and Sengoku had to team up so that clearly means Shiki>Garp=Sengoku.

Ok, then Shiki > Roger >= Garp <= Sengoku

Kaido was 39 when he fought Oden and then spent the next 20 years with drinking, attempting to suicide, etc. He never fought a single top tier opponent since his fight with Oden,

Kaidou fought Ashura Doji and Denjiro. He and King fought the Red Hair Pirates. He fought Kid and Killer. He had his first fight with Luffy, who was not a top-tier yet. He fought Big Mom. He fought 8 Scabbards and Izou. He was in the Two Yonko vs Supernovas fight. He fought Kinemon with his new full power. He fought Yamato. And THEN he fought top-tier Luffy.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

You're on your own

I'll cover for you

 

[SlendVeny]

Except she isn't. Oden's presence in Enma was enough to scare her. Kaido considers Big Mom to be pathetic, but fears Oden.

3-Homie Big Mom = Hybrid Kaidou.

Kaido also only knew Roger, Whitebeard, and Rocks from back in the day, yet put them in his Top 5 despite the fact that they are dead.

Top 5? That's only 4 people.

Kaido compared Oden to Roger and Whitebeard in the Oden flashback, put them on the same pedestal in the present time. Oden had the strongest sword style, and Oda compared Kamusari and Togen Shirataki (or Totsuka). In the anime, Kaido imagined Roger, Garp, and Oden as the people who injured him the most, etc.

"Pedestal" lmao.

????

Why would he let himself get rusty if he's some kind of sword-shooting super-Jesus?

 

[SlendVeny]

I'll cover for you

Thank you, I can only say "POV: " so many times.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

If it was common sense, you could show it on a map

Do a vs match up of it and see how it turns out.

Nyehehe, He-Man!! Behold, my BURDEN OF PROOF!!!

Neither of us got proof for this one

He didn't even know Oden, why would he be using that attack at full power on some random guy?

He literally heard about Oden. He was excited to meet him. When we first see Roger in the flashback, he was eager to meet Oden, then in the next chapter, he gets excited that Oden is coming, and then runs at him to face him.

 

[SlendVeny]

Do a vs match up of it and see how it turns out.

Idk, King is wrecking Oden's shit, but Roger's actually competent. Maybe I'll add Queen and Jack.

Neither of us got proof for this one

Burden of Proof lies on you, you're making the positive claim.

He literally heard about Oden. He was excited to meet him. When we first see Roger in the flashback, he was eager to meet Oden, then in the next chapter, he gets excited that Oden is coming, and then runs at him to face him.

Why would he start by going all out? TBH HE ONESHOTTED ANYWAY LMAO.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Imma just say this
Hybrid Kaidou's Thunder Bagua hit Zoro before he could defend and Zoro survived it ( yes he was in bandages but he took Hakai immediately before it anyway )
King's explosion, which I'll dub "Jackpot", was implied to be very capable of severely wounding Zoro if he didn't use Armament to block it out.
So..

 

[Unforgiven0815]

The canon ones?

You mean as "canon" as the vivre cards and databooks?

Ok, then Shiki > Roger >= Garp <= Sengoku

Nah, if we go by your logic then it's obviously: Shiki>Garp=Sengoku>Roger.

Kaidou fought Ashura Doji and Denjiro.

Who are not top tier.

He and King fought the Red Hair Pirates

No they didn't.

He fought Kid and Killer

Not top tier.

He had his first fight with Luffy, who was not a top-tier yet

Yup, not top tier.

He fought Big Mom. He fought 8 Scabbards and Izou. He was in the Two Yonko vs Supernovas fight. He fought Kinemon with his new full power. He fought Yamato. And THEN he fought top-tier Luffy.

Kaido told ACoC, pre Gear 5 Luffy that he doesn't remember the last time someone was able to go toe to toe with him. Kaido also called Big Mom pathetic and didn't put her in his Top 5.

 

[SlendVeny]

Imma just say this
Hybrid Kaidou's Thunder Bagua hit Zoro before he could defend and Zoro survived it ( yes he was in bandages but he took Hakai immediately before it anyway )
King's explosion, which I'll dub "Jackpot", was implied to be very capable of severely wounding Zoro if he didn't use Armament to block it out.
So..

And it should burn far brighter than a Boro Breath, nay?

 

[SlendVeny]

Nah, if we go by your logic then it's obviously: Shiki>Garp=Sengoku>Roger.

Well, if you say so.

No they didn't.

POV:

He literally did.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

3-Homie Big Mom = Hybrid Kaidou

Top 5? That's only 4 people

You said that Kaido probably forgot about Shiki because he's from way back, but so are Roger and Rocks, yet he put those 3 in his Top 5 alongside Oden, Shanks, and Whitebeard.

"Pedestal" lmao

Why would he let himself get rusty if he's some kind of sword-shooting super-Jesus?

Get to the point.

 

[SlendVeny]

You said that Kaido probably forgot about Shiki because he's from way back, but so are Roger and Rocks, yet he put those 3 in his Top 5 alongside Oden, Shanks, and Whitebeard.

No, I just meant he didn't see his full power.

Get to the point.

It's a simple question.

 

[Unforgiven0815]

Idk, King is wrecking Oden's shit, but Roger's actually competent

Nice joke. King is commander level and his daddy Kaido is scared of Oden.

Burden of Proof lies on you, you're making the positive claim

Not really. You're the one who started making headcanons.

Why would he start by going all out?

Why wouldn't he?

TBH HE ONESHOTTED ANYWAY

Except he didn't even manage to do that.