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You're the one who puts Shiki above Roger and put Post God Valley Incident Garp above Roger.Well, if you say so
He literally didn't. Shanks and his crew only stopped Kaido and King. They never fought.He literally did
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You're the one who puts Shiki above Roger and put Post God Valley Incident Garp above Roger.Well, if you say so
He literally didn't. Shanks and his crew only stopped Kaido and King. They never fought.He literally did
Another headcanon.No, I just meant he didn't see his full power
Your question makes no sense.It's a simple question.
"Commander level" doesn't mean anything. Katakuri was "commander level", Jack was "commander level", so is Benn Beckman.Nice joke. King is commander level and his daddy Kaido is scared of Oden.
Nah, the fact Roger wasn't going all out is kind of the default statement, since there's no proof to the positive.Not really. You're the one who started making headcanons.
To make the fight fun.Why wouldn't he?
I mean, he Karate Kidded him through like a quarter mile of trees.Except he didn't even manage to do that.
Shiki >= Roger, since his fleet was crushing Roger's until he got a steering wheel in his brain holes.You're the one who puts Shiki above Roger and put Post God Valley Incident Garp above Roger.
I mean, how else would they stop them?He literally didn't. Shanks and his crew only stopped Kaido and King. They never fought.
There's no proof Shiki was in his prime back then.Another headcanon.
I mean, you're like "Hell yeah, Oden went to hell and killed everyone in there, he can never lose!"Your question makes no sense.
They're below the admirals and Yonkos."Commander level" doesn't mean anything. Katakuri was "commander level", Jack was "commander level", so is Benn Beckman
Except that you're the one who came with the "Roger wasn't going all out" so you're the one who started making headcanons.Nah, the fact Roger wasn't going all out is kind of the default statement, since there's no proof to the positive
Ig.To make the fight fun.
Kaido oneshotted Luffy and after 2 weeks of training, Luffy was able to fight him evenly.I mean, he Karate Kidded him through like a quarter mile of trees.
Wasn't Roger sick at that point?Shiki >= Roger, since his fleet was crushing Roger's until he got a steering wheel in his brain holes
We don't know. But the fact that Kaido said that he doesn't remember the last time someone was able to go toe to toe with him indicates that there ain't no way he fought Shanks back then. Also, Shanks appeared in Marineford without any injuries.I mean, how else would they stop them?
When is "back then"?There's no proof Shiki was in his prime back then
I was never like that.I mean, you're like "Hell yeah, Oden went to hell and killed everyone in there, he can never lose!"
Benn Beckman, Marco, King,They're below the admirals and Yonkos.
"Wasn't" implies it isn't the positive claim.Except that you're the one who came with the "Roger wasn't going all out" so you're the one who started making headcanons.
Being compared to someone doesn't make you equal. I mean, this still doesn't mean he can break that sweet, sweet fire.Ig.
Kaido oneshotted Luffy and after 2 weeks of training, Luffy was able to fight him evenly.
Roger hit Oden with a haki imbued, named attack, and Oden immediately got back up with minor injuries. A year later, Oden returned many times stronger and was compared to Roger and Whitebeard.
Big deal.
Less than he was when he fought Whitebeard.Wasn't Roger sick at that point?
Shanks is just that guy.We don't know. But the fact that Kaido said that he doesn't remember the last time someone was able to go toe to toe with him indicates that there ain't no way he fought Shanks back then. Also, Shanks appeared in Marineford without any injuries.
God ValleyWhen is "back then"?
Well, you acting like he's some kinda Pirate King.I was never like that.
Ben: Maybe.Benn Beckman, Marco, King,
Alright but you came with the claim to begin with, so I don't understand what your point is."Wasn't" implies it isn't the positive claim.
Being compared to someone, being said to be "just like them", and being put on the same caliber as them, means exactly just that.Being compared to someone doesn't make you equal
If YOU say so.I mean, this still doesn't mean he can break that sweet, sweet fire.
Still sick.Less than he was when he fought Whitebeard
Shanks is that guy, but he didn't fight Kaido.Shanks is just that guy
We don't know how old Shiki is.God Valley
Not me, the story.Well, you acting like he's some kinda Pirate King.
Kizaru was afraid of him.Ben: Maybe.
You said he was Roger-tier first.Marco: Yes.
King: No.
Alright but you came with the claim to begin with, so I don't understand what your point is.
"Just like" doesn't mean that, no.Being compared to someone, being said to be "just like them", and being put on the same caliber as them, means exactly just that.
Guys who have anti-fire techniques can. Akainu, Kinemon, Zoro, Ace, Sabo, etc.If YOU say so.
Because if he can't, nobody can.
Shiki >= Whitebeard.Still sick.
All right, but remember, he was gonna fight Sickbeard's crew anyway.Shanks is that guy, but he didn't fight Kaido.
Exactly.We don't know how old Shiki is.
He ain't that guy.Not me, the story.
Kizaru was trolling. He acted scared and then continued attacking Law's submarine while Ben was watching him, doing nothing to stop him.Kizaru was afraid of him
The story said that too.You said he was Roger-tier first
It does mean that."Just like" doesn't mean that, no
So no top tier, right?Guys who have anti-fire techniques can. Akainu, Kinemon, Zoro, Ace, Sabo, etc.
I mean, anyone with Duraneg, too.So no top tier, right?
Based on what?Shiki >= Whitebeard
And?All right, but remember, he was gonna fight Sickbeard's crew anyway
If he's as old as Whitebeard or older, then he was 100% in his prime back then.Exactly
Cope.He ain't that guy.
I've been polite, but the moment someone who isn't a little goofball comes in, they gonna say some devastating stuff.Based on what?
And?
If he's as old as Whitebeard or older, then he was 100% in his prime back then.
Cope.
I've been polite, but the moment someone who isn't a little goofball comes in, they gonna say some devastating stuff.
To be fair, current Kaidou could wreck Oden's shit, he didn't even use his drunken dragon stuff against him the first time they fought. And did he use the hybrid form?Although I'm keeping my vote, I feel like we need to start to respect Oden more.
Even current Kaidou considers him a monster
Roger wasn't even trying to kill Oden with that, and all Oden did was beat a weaker version of Kaidou.Kaido oneshotted Luffy and after 2 weeks of training, Luffy was able to fight him evenly.
Roger hit Oden with a haki imbued, named attack, and Oden immediately got back up with minor injuries. A year later, Oden returned to Wano many times stronger, invincible, and was compared to Roger and Whitebeard.
Big deal.
You cant say someone is in their prime bc only based of age. Prime is when someone is in his strongest version. Not based of age1.Roger and Garp were 39-40 during the God Valley Incident. This was Roger's peak, as he wasn't sick back then. Garp became the Hero of the Marines after he and Roger defeated the Rocks crew.
2.Whitebeard hit his prime 2 years after the God Valley Incident, at the age of 38.
3.Shanks is currently 39.
4.Teach is currently 40.
5.Oden was 39 when he fought Kaido.
Etc.
Stop right thereBecause she's better than Oden.
I've always disagreed with the notion that King turned his flames off at the end because he suddenly became dumb. King himself knew that Zoro was dangerous to him whether his flames were on or off, which was why he responded to Zoro's taunt about him being afraid of what he can do by turning his flames off to increase speed and put some space between them. The panel of Zoro overwhelming King and King actively blocking him literally exists to show that his AP had grown to the point that it was a threat to King even while he was in Defense mode, so people still saying Zoro would've never beaten him if King had just kept his flames on and stalled is real funny to me. There's also the panel of Flame-On King dodging Zoro's KOH Purgatory Onigiri instead of trying to tank it.Stop right there
Thats
Btw y'all should stop underestimating Oden like that and overestimate King's powers so much. Blud was dumb to go flame off while he could have outlasted Zoro if he stayed in his Flame on mode like the Seraphim are doing rn vs Luffy & Lucci and etc. Imo it was a dumb option to turn his flames off instead of staying in his flame on mode to just outlast Zoro and beat him via better stamina but hey we all know this hapoened for plot reasons since it is a shounen and Zoro should have won either way
Zoro can cut flames, Oden can't.Stop right there
Thats
Btw y'all should stop underestimating Oden like that and overestimate King's powers so much. Blud was dumb to go flame off while he could have outlasted Zoro if he stayed in his Flame on mode like the Seraphim are doing rn vs Luffy & Lucci and etc. Imo it was a dumb option to turn his flames off
Wait, if Oden could kill Kaidou, how would threatening civillians even work. Like, who's gonna kill them, Orochi? His crew? Who's going back and giving them the order to?And Oden hasn't shown the intelligence Zoro used to exploit King's weakness.
I mean, he could probably kill a few hundred civilians before Oden cut him down, and Oden killing Kaido wasn't a guarantee, Kaido just made himself a massive target.Wait, if Oden could kill Kaidou, how would threatening civillians even work. Like, who's gonna kill them, Orochi? His crew? Who's going back and giving them the order to?
I suppose, but weren't they pretty far off?I mean, he could probably kill a few hundred civilians before Oden cut him down, and Oden killing Kaido wasn't a guarantee, Kaido just made himself a massive target.
Or winning.If he'd had his Hybrid form back then which has all his Zoan power but none of the size, Oden would've had a much smaller chance of scarring him.
Wait where was King shown fearing Zoro could damage his Flame On mode?I've always disagreed with the notion that King turned his flames off at the end because he suddenly became dumb. King himself knew that Zoro was dangerous to him whether his flames were on or off, which was why he responded to Zoro's taunt about him being afraid of what he can do by turning his flames off to increase speed and put some space between them. The panel of Zoro overwhelming King and King actively blocking him literally exists to show that his AP had grown to the point that it was a threat to King even while he was in Defense mode, so people still saying Zoro would've never beaten him if King had just kept his flames on and stalled is real funny to me. There's also the panel of Flame-On King dodging Zoro's KOH Purgatory Onigiri instead of trying to tank it.
When Zoro was pushing him back and Zoro taunted him by pointing out that King was opting to block his attacks rather than tank them.Wait where was King shown fearing Zoro could damage his Flame On mode?
Need I mention the flame cutting?When Zoro was pushing him back and Zoro taunted him by pointing out that King was opting to block his attacks rather than tank them.
Wait, so it's inconsistent anyway?But what's weird is that earlier, when King dodged a KoH attack, Zoro said "His flame is on, no point in trying to hurt him".
Well he would have to try very hard to cut through King's back-flames and then hit King before he reactivated them or King struck him first.Need I mention the flame cutting?
More like they contradict each other.Wait, so it's inconsistent anyway?
Ye so Zoro couldnt damage Flame On King thats just hypotheticalWhen Zoro was pushing him back and Zoro taunted him by pointing out that King was opting to block his attacks rather than tank them.
But what's weird is that earlier, when King dodged a KoH attack, Zoro said "His flame is on, no point in trying to hurt him".
Like Eseseso mentioned, it's during the "why are you blocking now" scene with Zoro and then he blatantly decides to put some space between the two of them.Wait where was King shown fearing Zoro could damage his Flame On mode?
Zoro was talking shit. He literally said in his internal monologue that he can't harm Flame On King.Like Eseseso mentioned, it's during the "why are you blocking now" scene with Zoro and then he blatantly decides to put some space between the two of them.
It's either Zoro just didn't realize how strong his attacks had become or his AP grew to the point he could harm Flame On King after he made that comment. But that blocking scene, plus King blatantly putting space between them rather than continue confronting him in close combat heavily implies that Zoro could harm him with his flames on.Zoro was talking shit. He literally said in his internal monologue that he can't harm Flame On King.
Yes. Because flames do not matter to guys that can cut flames. Oden cannot cut flames.It's either Zoro just didn't realize how strong his attacks had become or his AP grew to the point he could harm Flame On King after he made that comment. But that blocking scene, plus King blatantly putting space between them rather than continue confronting him in close combat heavily implies that Zoro could harm him with his flames on.