• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

King Proposal gets Low 2-C level.

Before that, I would like to apologize if there are some mistakes, because my English is quite bad.

In the King Proposal verse, the substantiation technique itself has a superior-inferior system. The higher the number of this technique, the greater the energy output released.

Feat:
Future Saika’s gaze was downcast. “Four substantiations. The first,
phenomena; the second, matter; the third, assimilation; and the fourth,
domain. Those are the four ranks that substantiation techniques are divided
into. You’re following me this far, I hope?” she asked with an exaggerated
gesture.
“…” Mushiki continued to watch her in silence.
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
— Volume 1

The fourth substance is called a miniature world, the world they create varies. However, the world that Saika herself created is infinite size.

Feat:
The moment their voices overlapped, the space surrounding them both
shifted once more.
An endless horizon. A vast desert.
An eerie confluence of two separate fourth substantiations.
“Rage—”
“Ugh…!”
As though responding to both sets of commands, the wind began to roil,
tearing through the sand as it wove two gigantic tornadoes.
Those sand-filled whirlpools flailed like two violent snakes, intertwining
between the two figures, raging wildly, scattering them with endless sand and
dirt.
— Volume 1
-

However, Ruri was familiar with this phenomenon, this eerie sensation.
The supreme domain that transcends phenomena, that ultimately comprised
matter through assimilation.
A fourth substantiation.
The ultimate form of magic, capable of forging a whole miniature world.
There was only one person who could pull off a feat of this magnitude...
— Volume 1

Saika can use the fifth substantiation, which is far transcend the fourth substantiation. Because the fifth substance itself is the world itself, different from the miniature world which is at a lower level.

Feat:
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
“That’s…” Mushiki stopped to consider her question.
With one’s second substantiation, they created matter. With their third,
they shrouded it around their body. Then with their fourth, they manifested a
new domain centered around their own existence. Depending on the power of
the mage responsible, such domains could encompass tremendously vast
areas.
Though, to imagine something else beyond even those abilities…
“It can’t be,” he said.
“That’s right.” Future Saika’s lips twisted in a smile. “One’s fifth
substantiation, world. This planet that you call Earth is nothing more than a
substantiation forged by a lone mage when the real Earth was destroyed.”
“…”
This revelation was so far beyond the realm of belief that it left Mushiki
utterly speechless.
“Around five hundred years ago, the planet known as Earth ceased to be.
At the time, I created a new identical world within my fifth substantiation and evacuated the survivors… But I wasn’t able to save everyone… I told you,
didn’t I? This world is much more fragile than you could possibly imagine.”
“…”
She puckered her lips in response to his silence. “Hmph. No response. I
take it you still don’t believe me?”
“Huh? Oh. No.” Mushiki shook his head. “I’m not surprised to hear Saika
would do something like that. I mean, that’s who she is. If anything, I was
just thinking how I’ve lived seventeen years of my life in a world she created.
The air tastes beautiful here.”
— Volume 1

For Saika, she literally has to get Low 2-C. Even though it is called identical to Earth, in fact, the structure was created based on their wishes. In fact, the fifth substantiation is a world that goes beyond the fourth substantiation. Because, the fourth substantiation itself has an infinite size structure, then for the fifth substantiation itself. It must be uncountable infinite, because it goes transcend infinite size.

Conclusion:

Kuga Mushiki & Kuozaki Saika gets Low 2-C level.
 
Before that, I would like to apologize if there are some mistakes, because my English is quite bad.

In the King Proposal verse, the substantiation technique itself has a superior-inferior system. The higher the number of this technique, the greater the energy output released.

Feat:
Future Saika’s gaze was downcast. “Four substantiations. The first,
phenomena; the second, matter; the third, assimilation; and the fourth,
domain. Those are the four ranks that substantiation techniques are divided
into. You’re following me this far, I hope?” she asked with an exaggerated
gesture.
“…” Mushiki continued to watch her in silence.
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
— Volume 1

The fourth substance is called a miniature world, the world they create varies. However, the world that Saika herself created is infinite size.

Feat:
The moment their voices overlapped, the space surrounding them both
shifted once more.
An endless horizon. A vast desert.
An eerie confluence of two separate fourth substantiations.
“Rage—”
“Ugh…!”
As though responding to both sets of commands, the wind began to roil,
tearing through the sand as it wove two gigantic tornadoes.
Those sand-filled whirlpools flailed like two violent snakes, intertwining
between the two figures, raging wildly, scattering them with endless sand and
dirt.
— Volume 1
-

However, Ruri was familiar with this phenomenon, this eerie sensation.
The supreme domain that transcends phenomena, that ultimately comprised
matter through assimilation.
A fourth substantiation.
The ultimate form of magic, capable of forging a whole miniature world.
There was only one person who could pull off a feat of this magnitude...
— Volume 1

Saika can use the fifth substantiation, which is far transcend the fourth substantiation. Because the fifth substance itself is the world itself, different from the miniature world which is at a lower level.

Feat:
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
“That’s…” Mushiki stopped to consider her question.
With one’s second substantiation, they created matter. With their third,
they shrouded it around their body. Then with their fourth, they manifested a
new domain centered around their own existence. Depending on the power of
the mage responsible, such domains could encompass tremendously vast
areas.
Though, to imagine something else beyond even those abilities…
“It can’t be,” he said.
“That’s right.” Future Saika’s lips twisted in a smile. “One’s fifth
substantiation, world. This planet that you call Earth is nothing more than a
substantiation forged by a lone mage when the real Earth was destroyed.”
“…”
This revelation was so far beyond the realm of belief that it left Mushiki
utterly speechless.
“Around five hundred years ago, the planet known as Earth ceased to be.
At the time, I created a new identical world within my fifth substantiation and evacuated the survivors… But I wasn’t able to save everyone… I told you,
didn’t I? This world is much more fragile than you could possibly imagine.”
“…”
She puckered her lips in response to his silence. “Hmph. No response. I
take it you still don’t believe me?”
“Huh? Oh. No.” Mushiki shook his head. “I’m not surprised to hear Saika
would do something like that. I mean, that’s who she is. If anything, I was
just thinking how I’ve lived seventeen years of my life in a world she created.
The air tastes beautiful here.”
— Volume 1

For Saika, she literally has to get Low 2-C. Even though it is called identical to Earth, in fact, the structure was created based on their wishes. In fact, the fifth substantiation is a world that goes beyond the fourth substantiation. Because, the fourth substantiation itself has an infinite size structure, then for the fifth substantiation itself. It must be uncountable infinite, because it goes transcend infinite size.

Conclusion:

Kuga Mushiki & Kuozaki Saika gets Low 2-C level.
Give the chapters so we can add the scans please
 
Give the chapters so we can add the scans please
I use PDFs, so don't really look closely at their chapters, often using keywords to look for their achievements. You can look for it, 1 chapter before the end, If the end is chapter 6 then you can find it in chapter 5.

A good idea, if we use the gyazo or imgur link here. I'll change it back, when it's not busy.
 
I use PDFs, so don't really look closely at their chapters, often using keywords to look for their achievements. You can look for it, 1 chapter before the end, If the end is chapter 6 then you can find it in chapter 5.

A good idea, if we use the gyazo or imgur link here. I'll change it back, when it's not busy.
Well, fortunately i'm a fan of this novel so i can get the scans for u kek, i will upload it using Imgur alr?
 
i'm just confused since i read it long time ago, all of these things written here should be put in the same imgur link or not?

Before that, I would like to apologize if there are some mistakes, because my English is quite bad.

In the King Proposal verse, the substantiation technique itself has a superior-inferior system. The higher the number of this technique, the greater the energy output released.

Feat:
Future Saika’s gaze was downcast. “Four substantiations. The first,
phenomena; the second, matter; the third, assimilation; and the fourth,
domain. Those are the four ranks that substantiation techniques are divided
into. You’re following me this far, I hope?” she asked with an exaggerated
gesture.
“…” Mushiki continued to watch her in silence.
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
— Volume 1

The fourth substance is called a miniature world, the world they create varies. However, the world that Saika herself created is infinite size.

Feat:
The moment their voices overlapped, the space surrounding them both
shifted once more.
An endless horizon. A vast desert.
An eerie confluence of two separate fourth substantiations.
“Rage—”
“Ugh…!”
As though responding to both sets of commands, the wind began to roil,
tearing through the sand as it wove two gigantic tornadoes.
Those sand-filled whirlpools flailed like two violent snakes, intertwining
between the two figures, raging wildly, scattering them with endless sand and
dirt.
— Volume 1
-

However, Ruri was familiar with this phenomenon, this eerie sensation.
The supreme domain that transcends phenomena, that ultimately comprised
matter through assimilation.
A fourth substantiation.
The ultimate form of magic, capable of forging a whole miniature world.
There was only one person who could pull off a feat of this magnitude...
— Volume 1

Saika can use the fifth substantiation, which is far transcend the fourth substantiation. Because the fifth substance itself is the world itself, different from the miniature world which is at a lower level.

Feat:
Future Saika, however, seemingly having read his thoughts, nodded. “But
what lies next? Fourth substantiations are touted as supreme domains, but if a
power could exist beyond them, what form would it take?”
“That’s…” Mushiki stopped to consider her question.
With one’s second substantiation, they created matter. With their third,
they shrouded it around their body. Then with their fourth, they manifested a
new domain centered around their own existence. Depending on the power of
the mage responsible, such domains could encompass tremendously vast
areas.
Though, to imagine something else beyond even those abilities…
“It can’t be,” he said.
“That’s right.” Future Saika’s lips twisted in a smile. “One’s fifth
substantiation, world. This planet that you call Earth is nothing more than a
substantiation forged by a lone mage when the real Earth was destroyed.”
“…”
This revelation was so far beyond the realm of belief that it left Mushiki
utterly speechless.
“Around five hundred years ago, the planet known as Earth ceased to be.
At the time, I created a new identical world within my fifth substantiation and evacuated the survivors… But I wasn’t able to save everyone… I told you,
didn’t I? This world is much more fragile than you could possibly imagine.”
“…”
She puckered her lips in response to his silence. “Hmph. No response. I
take it you still don’t believe me?”
“Huh? Oh. No.” Mushiki shook his head. “I’m not surprised to hear Saika
would do something like that. I mean, that’s who she is. If anything, I was
just thinking how I’ve lived seventeen years of my life in a world she created.
The air tastes beautiful here.”
— Volume 1

For Saika, she literally has to get Low 2-C. Even though it is called identical to Earth, in fact, the structure was created based on their wishes. In fact, the fifth substantiation is a world that goes beyond the fourth substantiation. Because, the fourth substantiation itself has an infinite size structure, then for the fifth substantiation itself. It must be uncountable infinite, because it goes transcend infinite size.

Conclusion:

Kuga Mushiki & Kuozaki Saika gets Low 2-C level.
 
I don't think it qualifies for low 2-C. It's pretty vague to consider an endless horizon or something similar to infinite size; it seems more like hyperbole from the context. It also clarifies that the world is identical to Earth, so unless it has more evidence, I disagree with the upgrade.
 
I don't think it qualifies for low 2-C. It's pretty vague to consider an endless horizon or something similar to infinite size; it seems more like hyperbole from the context. It also clarifies that the world is identical to Earth, so unless it has more evidence, I disagree with the upgrade.
I'll respond later, after I get home from work
 
I don't think it qualifies for low 2-C. It's pretty vague to consider an endless horizon or something similar to infinite size; it seems more like hyperbole from the context. It also clarifies that the world is identical to Earth, so unless it has more evidence, I disagree with the upgrade.
Shouldn't that be enough? Considering that Saika has manipulation possibilities in her profile, what's more, she can manipulate the structure of her pocket reality. Therefore, there is a horizon and sand or land that has no end within it.

The author of the story also clearly states what happened in that pocket reality. It is not a metaphor or hyperbole, it is reality and reality is changed with structure doesn't make sense.

Mushiki just used this technique when fighting Anviet on the school roof. It happened in Volume 1 Chapter 2
 
Shouldn't that be enough? Considering that Saika has manipulation possibilities in her profile, what's more, she can manipulate the structure of her pocket reality. Therefore, there is a horizon and sand or land that has no end within it.
Manipulating possibilities is just probability manipulation, it doesn't provide any evidence that the possibilities that she creates are infinite in size.

It's common for one to manipulate a pocket reality that they only created, however without any actual size of the world it's means nothing. Though according to the context the size is already clarified as identical to Earth, so it contradicts being infinite in size.

The endless horizon or sand seems like hyperbolic to me, unless there is more evidence, it's too vague to accept.
The author of the story also clearly states what happened in that pocket reality. It is not a metaphor or hyperbole, it is reality and reality is changed with structure doesn't make sense.
I am not saying pocket reality is hyperbole, the size to express is used as exaggeration, which quite common in fiction.
Mushiki just used this technique when fighting Anviet on the school roof. It happened in Volume 1 Chapter 2
Yeah I know I already read 2 volumes of it.


In the end I think it's better to wait for knowledgeable staff to evaluate this thread.
 
Manipulating possibilities is just probability manipulation, it doesn't provide any evidence that the possibilities that she creates are infinite in size.
That's not what I mean, she uses her probability abilities to draw out all the possibilities in reality. she can change reality according to her wishes. This is what makes, The pocket reality there looks like a desert. That's why there are endless horizons and endless sand.

It's common for one to manipulate a pocket reality that they only created, however without any actual size of the world it's means nothing. Though according to the context the size is already clarified as identical to Earth, so it contradicts being infinite in size.
No, the true essence of fifth substantiation is the world. But, because previously the earth was destroyed, she was forced to use it identically to the earth. But, this is not the earth, this is the magic of the world with the desire to be similar to the earth. What makes, living creatures can live in the Saika technique.
 
That's not what I mean, she uses her probability abilities to draw out all the possibilities in reality. she can change reality according to her wishes. This is what makes, The pocket reality there looks like a desert. That's why there are endless horizons and endless sand.
I means it's still not infinite in the end. Changing reality according to wishes doesn't mean anything. Besides it's not endless horizons but horizon. Without any further evidences, it's vague.
No, the true essence of fifth substantiation is the world. But, because previously the earth was destroyed, she was forced to use it identically to the earth. But, this is not the earth, this is the magic of the world with the desire to be similar to the earth. What makes, living creatures can live in the Saika technique.
The new world she created is finite which is identical to Earth, there is no statement that says the world she created is infinite in size.
 
Last edited:
Actually, I'm also not quite sure about the size of the fourth substantiation, it's quite doubtful (lol).

I'm just trying it out, even though Everything12 said last year that it was flowery words.

I'm going to close this, and get on with other contributions seriously. Thank you for those who have visited.
 
Her 5th substantiation is litteraly her recreating the planet, it's a 5-B feats not Low 2-C
"That's right." Future Saika's lips twisted in a smile. "One's fifth sub-stantiation, world. This planet that you call Earth is nothing more than a substantiation forged by a lone mage when the real Earth was destroyed."
This revelation was so far beyond the realm of belief that it left
Mushiki utterly speechless.
"Around five hundred years ago, the planet known as Earth ceased to be. At the time, I created a new identical world within my fifth substantiation and evacuated the survivors... But I wasn't able to save everyone... I told you, didn't I? This world is much more fragile than you could possibly imagine."
Even the manga adaptation show that they're speaking about the planet
RwGhEZy.jpg




The whole thing about being infinite for the 4th substantiation is not really infinite, the novel clearly show it's hyperbolique.
For example, volume 6 chapter 1 (btw substantiation and manifestation are the same things, the former is in the official translation and the latter is in the fantranslation)
“Expand Fourth Manifestation as wide as possible and contain the target within the manifestation territory.”
When Mushiki stated that while looking up at the sky, Kuroe cleared her throat as if letting out her admiration
Volume 1, chapter 5
The moment their voices overlapped, the space surrounding them both shifted once more.
An endless horizon. A vast desert.

So, I totally disagree with the Low 2-C
 
Her 5th substantiation is litteraly her recreating the planet, it's a 5-B feats not Low 2-C

Even the manga adaptation show that they're speaking about the planet
RwGhEZy.jpg




The whole thing about being infinite for the 4th substantiation is not really infinite, the novel clearly show it's hyperbolique.
For example, volume 6 chapter 1 (btw substantiation and manifestation are the same things, the former is in the official translation and the latter is in the fantranslation)

Volume 1, chapter 5


So, I totally disagree with the Low 2-C
i'm pretty sure the volume 1 had a statement about star destruction or something like that
what do you think about the star destruction statement?
 
Back
Top