King of Hell vs The Blue Lightning of Vollachia (Roronoa Zoro vs Cecilus Segmund)

[Zabazab]

Resist /=/ immunity, will still give openings

Nah, he is completely unaffected by Reinhard's fighting spirit which just immediately knocks you out without enough willpower.

Not that impressive... Kaido basically did the same thing and Zoro hit him with it

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Nah, he is completely unaffected by Reinhard's fighting spirit which just immediately knocks you out without enough willpower.

that's not in his profile

• Aura (Overwhelming & Fear Inducing; Can use his fighting spirit to suppress other auras. Fighting spirit can cause those around to feel like their skin is on fire[20], and make it feel as if the surroundings is shaking[21]. Has an aura of swordsmanship which causes fear[12])

Not the same as con haki which literally makes the surroundings shake/get destroyed

• Willpower Manipulation, Explosive Aura Burst, and Shockwave Creation (Users of this Haki are capable of manipulating their willpower into a large aura which shoots out in all directions, causing shockwaves to occasionally push others backwards and destroy the surroundings[16])
• Fear-Inducing Aura, Status Effect Inducement, Empathic and Fear Manipulation (By directly dominating the willpower of opponents, victims often fall unconscious and are extremely shaken by this Haki, and even those who aren't are still slightly scared[68][67][1][4]. Boa Marigold and Sandersonia obeyed Luffy's command of not harming the petrified warriors[16]. Those with barely enough willpower black out for a small period of time and get mild headaches[52])

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Resist /=/ immunity, will still give openings

No, are you dumb?

I'm talking about the spatial manipulation aspect only

Thats also laced with cm

Uhh no... His body is getting blitz, his body moving on it's own is doing nothing

Julius blocked a perception blitzing attack on instinct

Not that impressive... Kaido basically did the same thing and Zoro hit him with it

Feat?

Zoro's one is still better

Sure
Btw he is still getting one shotted

 

[Robo432343]

No, are you dumb?

no stop
this is where the thread goes downhill

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

no stop
this is where the thread goes downhill

Dont stop?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Thats also laced with cm

which zoro can dodge or counter still with obs haki

No, are you dumb?

No.

Julius blocked a perception blitzing attack on instinct

Zoro did does the same pre timeskip.

Feat?

Kata could also

Sure
Btw he is still getting one shotted

Zoro has far more abilities that will one shot and be unavoidable

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

which zoro can dodge or counter still with obs haki

You still havent proven to me how divination type precog is superior if the end result is literally the same

No.

Yeah, so anyways Reinhard can glare at people and they faint. Thats like the only real problem Conquerors can have for ceci

Zoro did does the same pre timeskip.

So???
How is that stopping Cecilus from blocking the attack, also he can slow his perception speed down 100x

Also if we go by the profile alone, he actually dodged a light speed attack with mh+ speed

Kaido is being pummeled by attacks and literally telling Luffy to stop.
This also would NOT scale to zoro at all

Kata could also

this is also the advanced version, Zoro doesn't scale

Zoro has far more abilities that will one shot and be unavoidable

Like?

 

[Zabazab]

Not the same as con haki which literally makes the surroundings shake/get destroyed

Having a physical effect doesn't mean the supernatural effect if the aura is better. Here's what Reinhard & Reid's auras do to people, respectively;

“One more thing: though I feel bad about doing this, I’m going to have to knock each and every one of you out… Hope you understand.”

“The hell are you sayi…” As one of the men voiced his objection to the Masked Knight’s absurd declaration, he suddenly felt as though he was losing consciousness. “What the…?”

Though the man managed to pull himself together before completely blacking out, the same could not be said about the person next to him who was on the ground with his eyes rolled back—in fact, he was not alone. One after another, men collapsed all around, with only a little more than half of the 200 men remaining standing by the end of it.

“—More than half of you remain. I’m impressed. You possess a much stronger core than I expected,” muttered the Masked Knight to himself in surprise after knocking out nearly 100 people just by glaring as he looked around at the men still standing. –Golden Lion and the Sword Saint: Riot in Flanders

“――When I don’t feel like doin’ somethin’, I don’t mess ‘bout. So, are ya gonna do what I said, ya prick?”

Subaru’s whole body was bathed in chills from an intense gust of wind whooshing by.

The man had cast aside all of his weapons and even tucked away his chopsticks in his bosom pocket; and, his lips had curled. It did certainly look like a smile, but it was of a different nature to the one which he had been showing so far.

Ferocious as it was, it was no smile that gave off a sunny atmosphere. Rather his smile was like that of a crazed beast exuding a dark, sanguine, gruesome intent to kill.

“…Ah.” A small groan could be heard.

Not from Subaru, but from Emilia who should have been by his side. She had one of her hands against her pale throat and her jewel-like eyes were widened in surprise.

Her knees fell from beneath her and she sunk down onto the floor. It was as if she had noticed in that moment that she was unable to stand up by herself and forgotten how to breathe――

“Ha――” And it was the same for Subaru as well, who had suddenly become aware of his breathing as soon as he saw Emilia’s reaction. Before he could even notice, Subaru had dropped to his knees in pain and his whole body was drenched in sweat.

He was in the same state as Emilia―― No, he was worse off than her. He had been completely daunted by the man’s presence.

It was as if he had started to forget even that his heart was beating, and that he was starting to be killed.

If there had been no one around him to make him remember about that, he would have died from the power in the man’s eyes alone. –Volume 22, Chapter 4, "Stick Swinger"

 

[CurrySenpai]

What if we just voted incon and went to sleep

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Having a physical effect doesn't mean the supernatural effect if the aura is better.

No but I'm saying that combined with the effects will give openings...

 

[Zabazab]

Cecilus' combat intelligence btw:

Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius

Cecilus is a monster in terms of combat, in his early teens, he single-handedly slaughtered an entire army that was sent to kill Vincent Vollachia.[8] His swordsmanship is far beyond human limits, even as a child his skill was unfathomably superior to his own father's, who trained his entire life in an attempt to reach the Heavenly Sword,[25] slayed numerous people, learned from many schools of martial arts, absorbed and combined their techniques, all in order to culminate an ultimate sword-flash– which Cecilus considers to be a flashy display with no actual usefulness.[14]

By watching Al fight just a single time, he was able to correctly guess that he possessed an Authority and what that Authority does through sheer intuition,[13] and his intuition also correctly informed him that killing too many Zombies would be a bad idea.[19] He is a transcendant being that stands at the top of the Nine Divine Generals, and his skill stands upon the steps to the Heavenly Sword. As a child he single-handedly defeated every soldier in a Vollachian Fortress with just his bare-hands, all while ensuring he didn't kill anyone.[16] Cecilus possesses a perfect memory– he never forgets a place or object he has seen before.[4] He was also able to weave through a rain of invisible sniper-fire by sheer guesswork,[13] and is said to possess the talent[33] to reach Reid Astrea's level of skill.

Cecilus' brain possesses incredible processing power, he is constantly taking in information from his surroundings in order to grasp the location of everyone and everything nearby,[4] and his analysis of physicality and behaviour allows him to accurately predict the location of everyone in the vicinity without focusing on them. His mastery of the Flow Method allows him to actively control each and every one of his senses,[4] as well as accelerate his own thoughts in order to process the world in extreme slow-motion;[4] such that in the middle of avoiding a flurry of deadly projectiles, he was able to mull over his feelings regarding the current battle, cause a second Cecilus to be born from his accelerated thoughts,[4] conversate with the second Cecilus, and then battle with the second Cecilus to determine which will return to regular time as the true Cecilus.[4] His mental processing even allowed him to, upon wielding a sword for the very first time, train with the blade for days upon days within his mind, swinging it hundreds of millions of times, all within a fraction of a second in reality,[4] and then utilize the fruits of his efforts immediately in combat.

Cecilus completely wiped the floor[40] with Elsa Granhiert in single-combat, who has such incredible intuition that even with her senses cut off by Shamak, she was able to accurately aim at a target's vitals and avoid an attack that blew away the entire room she was in,[41] and her intuition also allowed her to counter or avoid any attack she has already seen, even if performed in great numbers.[30] He is stated to have martial prowess that rivals Halibel and Reinhard van Astrea, and is described as Reinhard's equal.[42]

His swordsmanship has also been compared to Wilhelm van Astrea's at his peak,[3] who was able to surpass Theresia van Astrea, despite her flawless swordsmanship and battle instincts as the Sword Saint, which couldn't be surpassed in a lifetime nor eternity.[38] Theresia's ability to intuitively grasp her opponents most vulnerable point, and see white rays of battle which she need only trace to inevitably kill her opponent, had no effect on Wilhelm[23], as his superior skill caused Theresia's predictive rays to be constantly severed.

After accepting the Purge King's offer and honing his skills for 3 years, Cecilus has surpassed himself and reached the point of being just a single step away from[36] the Heavenly Sword, the very pinnacle that all warriors strive to reach, yet most never even place a single step upon the path towards it.[28] His swordsmanship has reached Reinhard's level, who stands in a dimension all on his own, incomparable to even those who could surpass previous Sword Saints,[37] who themselves stand at a level that cannot be reached in a lifetime or eternity of training.[38]

 

[CurrySenpai]

Cecilus' combat intelligence btw:

Arnice victim I fear

 

[Zabazab]

Arnice victim I fear

He's a Ferris victim I fear.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You still havent proven to me how divination type precog is superior if the end result is literally the same

because the end result isn't the same... Not sure why I why would need to explain seeing/knowing the actual future being completely different to having predicated stuff for the future

Yeah, so anyways Reinhard can glare at people and they faint. Thats like the only real problem Conquerors can have for ceci

... It also stuns them if they aren't knocked out by the effects or by the actual Shockwave effect

So???
How is that stopping Cecilus from blocking the attack, also he can slow his perception speed down 100x

Because the attack is moving faster than his body soo much that it's standing still compared to zoro

And that's nothing to observation haki that boosts reactions speed soo much that an average child could react to 90% the speed of light

Kaido is being pummeled by attacks and literally telling Luffy to stop.

That was before him using observation haki and was also joking.. Not sure how you can't see that

This also would NOT scale to zoro at all

He literally used the aoe tornado on dragon kaido... It would

Like?

Every attack being imbued with dura neg, blitzing close range and huge aoe tornado

 

[Nierre]

Zoro hardly uses Observation Haki, let alone in the way people here is assuming he would. Zoro's Haki (Obs) isn't that crazy either, nor does it have the feats that support the type of shit people are saying he'd do here.

It's either a stomp in Cecilus' favor or just a very decisive win FRA, imo

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Zoro hardly uses Observation Haki, let alone in the way people here is assuming he would. Zoro's Haki (Obs) isn't that crazy either, nor does it have the feats that support the type of shit people are saying he'd do here.

Zoro is always using it??? Nearly the whole fight with pica he did

Observation haki is also basically always active so not sure what you're trying to say, just because they aren't literally always saying they are, doesn't mean they're not using it

Zoro's Haki (Obs) isn't that crazy either, nor does it have the feats that support the type of shit people are saying he'd do here.

Like?

 

[Nierre]

Agree to disagree cuz I don't care enough about this match to argue

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Agree to disagree cuz I don't care enough about this match to argue

nah but this is about zoro and observation haki... Not really the match and goes against the haki page

 

[Nierre]

I've already given my vote

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

...

 

[Arkenis]

How does Zoro counter the cm? Even with ob haki there's no way he's avoiding every attempt Cecilus tries given the eg, senses, and range Cecilus has.

And I could just be misinterpreting this, but the sword can nullify points, if he cuts through one's haki aura would he not be cutting their willpower, the point of their haki?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How does Zoro counter the cm?

by dodging before it slashes or countering with a slash beforehand making the concept slash not hit zoro...

Also you're acting like zoro is just going to stand there... Zoro can spam ranged slashes that dura negs and if he gets close can blitz (which he can do by propelling himself to him)

 

[Zabazab]

And I could just be misinterpreting this, but the sword can nullify points, if he cuts through one's haki aura would he not be cutting their willpower, the point of their haki?

If he cut through Zoro's Haki I imagine it would only effect the Haki? Although cutting the point of a scream-attack did end up causing severe damage to the source's throat, so it might do something to his will.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

ones haki is just manifested by ones fighting spirit it isn't literally their willpower they're using if that makes sense, that's for the con haki

Haki (isn't fully explained yet but) is also connected to ones soul, so even if we were to assume that it will cut the "point" of haki which is cutting the soul... Haki would... resist that

Also feel like that's a complete wank to assume that the ability can do that with no additional proof of such, starting hate concept stuff fr... I now can see what ginsama is talking about

 

[Zabazab]

Haki (isn't fully explained yet but) is also connected to ones soul, so even if we were to assume that it will cut the "point" of haki which is cutting the soul... Haki would... resist that

Murasame can interact with soul stuff too ig, it can cut Curses (magic used to kill people, binds to the soul) and Contracts (an Oath forming a bond between two souls).

Also feel like that's a complete wank to assume that the ability can do that with no additional proof of such, starting hate concept stuff fr...

It's only Type 3, it's more descriptive than anything.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Murasame can interact with soul stuff too ig, it can cut Curses (magic used to kill people, binds to the soul) and Contracts (an Oath forming a bond between two souls).

CURSES LIKE JJK?????

 

[Zabazab]

CURSES LIKE JJK?????

Exactly like JJK. Re:Zero even has Domain Expansion (領域展開).

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Murasame can interact with soul stuff too ig, it can cut Curses (magic used to kill people, binds to the soul) and Contracts (an Oath forming a bond between two souls).

yee but haki is connected to the soul and haki protects ones soul... There isn't from what we know any other perceived "point" to haki unless it cuts of ones emotions to fight? (which haki can also resist via perona doing something similar)

It's only Type 3, it's more descriptive than anything.

Yee but... What type of type 3? I don't think it's descriptive enough at all especially going by the justification...

It's basically powernull/negation to the original thing it came from... But that original thing it come from is protected by haki from the thing it's trying to cut (the soul)

But yee anyway... There's not much to discuss now... It's just going to be these wincons basically

zoro has to worry about cecilus's slashes from one of his swords, while cecilus has to worry about zoro's blitzing, spamming multiple attacks that one shots and huge aoe attacks that he cannot dodge because of speed being equalized

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah the cm doesn't really matter then. He isn't cutting Zoro's name or something like that, he'd cut the haki but that gets resisted.

What else is Cecilus's win con here?

 

[Zabazab]

There isn't from what we know any other perceived "point" to haki unless it cuts of ones emotions to fight? (which haki can also resist via perona doing something similar)

Nono, the "point" is it's own thing, it's the essence of [any thing]. It doesn't cut the logical source, it cuts a "point".

But yee anyway... There's not much to discuss now... It's just going to be these wincons basically

Cecilus can absolutely dodge through Zoro's AoE, or just cut it with Murasame.

Idk how you can say Zoro blitzes when Cecilus has both higher reactions and perceptions.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Idk how you can say Zoro blitzes when Cecilus has both higher reactions and perceptions.

because it blitzes the body, even if you can react to it... It will be like you're standing still

Actually this is a much better representation

Cecilus can absolutely dodge through Zoro's AoE, or just cut it with Murasame.

That's if he has time to or can cut all of the whirlwinds

Nono, the "point" is it's own thing, it's the essence of [any thing]. It doesn't cut the logical source, it cuts a "point".

...

 

[Zabazab]

because it blitzes the body, even if you can react to it... It will be like you're standing still

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

That's if he has time to or can cut all of the whirlwinds

It'd only take a single sword-flash to cut the point of the whirlwinds, just like how Murasame could cut the point of sonic waves.

 

[Arkenis]

That's if he has time to or can cut all of the whirlwinds

With a 20 km swing why wouldn't he?

And the sword thing is pretty weird, it can cut concepts but even targets the essence of the concept. So even saying Zoro resists Soul Manip, he doesn't resist having the essence of his soul cut.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

King of Hell vs The Blue Lightning of Vollachia (Roronoa Zoro vs Cecilus Segmund)

Resist /=/ immunity, will still give openings Nah, he is completely unaffected by Reinhard's fighting spirit which just immediately knocks you out without enough willpower. Not that impressive... Kaido basically did the same thing and Zoro hit him with it :confused:

vsbattles.com

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action.

... And what's that supposed to prove? Reaction speed isn't the speed of movements, it's the speed of you noticing stuff which is then followed by movements

 

[Arkenis]

I'm voting Cecilus due to his sword cutting point stuff and also cuz he's far smarter, has afterimage creation up to a hundred. I see him hitting Zoro easier here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And the sword thing is pretty weird, it can cut concepts but even targets the essence of the concept. So even saying Zoro resists Soul Manip, he doesn't resist having the essence of his soul cut.

yee but haki protects one's soul... So how would it be cut..

With a 20 km swing why wouldn't he?

Because it would take time for him to slash all of them, once it has been created around him

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

has afterimage creation up to a hundred.

what...? What's that supposed to do?

and also cuz he's far smarter

Nah... (not combat knowledge wise)

 

[Arkenis]

yee but haki protects one's soul...

That doesn't help then. He targets the essence of things, even a concepts essence. Meaning the souls essence is what's being targeted, not just the soul, Haki doesn't resist having the souls essence being targeted.

Because it would take time for him to slash all of them, once it has been created around him

And he cuts them? You act like he can't spin around lmao.

Nah... (not combat knowledge wise)

Just about everything in his intell section is about combat lmao.

 

[XDragnoir]

Question, how does CM3 interact with default resistances?

Can a normal resistance to soul hax resist a CM3 attack towards the soul? I know CM2 goes through non-conceptual resistances, I am not sure about CM3.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That doesn't help then. He targets the essence of things, even a concepts essence. Meaning the souls essence is what's being targeted, not just the soul, Haki doesn't resist having the souls essence being targeted.

... The f?

And he cuts them? You act like he can't spin around lmao.

No he can't, since speed is equal and it would've already hit him at that point

Just about everything in his intell section is about combat lmao.

And? Zoro still has comparable if not better combat intelligence...