King of Hell vs The Blue Lightning of Vollachia (Roronoa Zoro vs Cecilus Segmund)

[MonkeyOfLife]

It works exactly like that
When did i say it doesn't???
Stop putting words into my mouth

That's not on the profiles so it doesn't work exactly like that...

 

[CurrySenpai]

Is there a skill slop debate going on? Oh, wait it's a Re:Zero thread and Satella is here, of course it's skill slop debate.

See you guys in 5 pages when this gets closed or votes actually happen.

 

[Zabazab]

Iai techniques which fully blitzes your movement speed

Cecilus can massively boost his perception speeds by focusing, giving him time to avoid attacks he otherwise couldn't.

and aoe tornadoes full of ranged slashes which can engulfed kaido someone whos bigger than a kilometer

Cecilus can easily move through something like that unharmed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Cecilus can massively boost his perception speeds by focusing, giving him time to avoid attacks he otherwise couldn't.

that's not movement speed and zoro has blitzed people with observation haki

No matter how fast your reaction is, if your body isn't fast enough, it doesn't matter... You'll get hit even if you have infinite reaction speeds

Cecilus can easily move through something like that unharmed.

No he can't, speed is equal and its an aoe attack...

 

[CurrySenpai]

Anyways, I'm voting Zoro. Even if Cecilius does some stupid 1 million years skill bullshit, I can dodge a thousand arrows all at once yadda yadda precog wank Zoro also has that, and it may arguably be better.

Observation Haki, Armament Haki, Supernatural Willpower, a bit of dura neg all provide answers to Cecilius' bullshit and his AOE attacks won't even allow Cecilius to dodge with his "Le Epic Skill!!!!". It's called an Area of Effect for a reason, if you are in the area, you get effected.

What is so hard for Re:Zero debaters to understand, not drawing things out to 10 pages because they have to argue how their totally skill god character can dodge a speck of dust with their eyes closed while doing a handstand, therefore they are able to never get hit by anything ever.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

that's not movement speed and zoro has blitzed people with observation haki

No matter how fast your reaction is, if your body isn't fast enough, it doesn't matter... You'll get hit even if you have infinite reaction speeds

Mf i have already covered this above, he can block perception blitzing attacks

No he can't, speed is equal and its an aoe attack...

Yeah speed is equal, he can easily dodge those

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah speed is equal, he can easily dodge those

See this message

It's called an Area of Effect for a reason, if you are in the area, you get effected.

How hard is it for you to just... accept that your character may be outmatched Satella.

 

[SeijiSetto]

i mean if ceci can dodge raindrops in a storm (literally impossible since there is no space big enough for a human to stand that they won't be hit)...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Mf i have already covered this above, he can block perception blitzing attacks

... Wow, and zoro has done that as well... That doesn't matter against complete body movement blitz

Like are you understanding what I'm saying...? How are you supposed to dodge or block when the opponent is moving so fast it looks like your standing still in his view

Yeah speed is equal, he can easily dodge those

... No he can not... He's not dodging a huge aoe attack when speed is equal... That's a disadvantage to cecilus, not an advantage..

 

[CurrySenpai]

i mean if ceci can dodge raindrops in a storm (literally impossible since there is no space big enough for a human to stand that they won't be hit)...

off topic but that reminds of this one specific panel of Sonic Archie Comics where there's a whole gag about running between raindrops and I would always try to do that when I was like 8 lol

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Alright. React to this message with who you voted for (If you are ready)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Alright. React to this message with who you voted for (If you are ready)

well, so that this thread doesn't just forever derail into specific abilities...

I'll vote Zoro for the many one shot techniques and unavoidable techniques/abilities zoro has that can be spammed, which cecilus has nothing to counter or protect against

Uhh, I guess only I've voted for now

 

[CurrySenpai]

Alright. React to this message with who you voted for (If you are ready)

I voted Zoro, pretty much the same reasons as Monkey

 

[Zabazab]

his AOE attacks won't even allow Cecilius to dodge with his "Le Epic Skill!!!!". It's called an Area of Effect for a reason, if you are in the area, you get effected.

It's a tornado of slashes, no? That is AOE sure, but not the kind of AOE where someone who can weave through a rainstorm can't fairly easily weave through it.

Plus nonsense like completely dodging an AOE attack the size of the room the character was in, all while their senses are shut off.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It's a tornado of slashes, no? That is AOE sure, but not the kind of AOE where someone who can weave through a rainstorm can't fairly easily weave through it.

its a whirlwind type of tornado, and from the statement it implies his body has enough space and making it easier with a kids body

A realm filled with ``death'', a mountain of corpses that must dodge the raindrops in the storm...

"If that's what you need! Dodge raindrops or sand grains!"

If you are exposed to it, you will die, if you are killed, you will be destroyed, and if you are destroyed, it will be the end.

---

He keeps dodging all flying crystals and is very glad that he is not adult because it's easier with childs body.

Plus nonsense like completely dodging an AOE attack the size of the room the character was in, all while their senses are shut off.

Would be a speed feat then... Luffy could dodge an aoe explosion that exploded on him

 

[LordGinSama]

AnalPred

HUH

 

[LordGinSama]

i mean if ceci can dodge raindrops in a storm (literally impossible since there is no space big enough for a human to stand that they won't be hit)...

This is also incorrect for the reasons i gave above. They're more than fast enough to dodge rain fall, rain falls at 14MPH and this dude is Massive Hypersonic+ with Analytical Prediction.

This feat isn't nearly as impressive as its being made out to be.

 

[VortechsTG]

Ok, so Cecilus can know what he should conceivably have zero way of knowing through pure intuition. He can slow his perception down to the point where attacks faster than him appear frozen. Even characters who are not very skilled, like Emilia, have had analytical prediction since day one with no combat experience, and Cecilus is easily one of the most skilled characters. He scales to Theresia, whose protection tells her the perfect moves to make to win, and instantly knows her opponents' weak points and abilities by looking at them. Cecilus can dodge things that are completely impossible to dodge, like every drop in the rain and numerous snaking, unpredictable constructs of light coming at him from every direction.

And if you still, for some reason, don't think he can dodge what Zoro can throw at him, even with a normal sword, he can pick it up for the first time ever, instantly run simulations of training with it millions of times, then perform the perfect slash and drop an aoe nuke that destroys everything around him (it being used for the aforementioned light constructs). And here he has two swords of power. The weaker of the two conceptually cuts the "point" of something and has such a sharp cutting edge that even a normal person swinging it will cut space and cut through everything in their line of sight in front of the slash. We don't even know what the stronger of the two is capable of, other than that it's something to do with dreams.

I'm voting Cecilus.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

"But I don't mean to make fun of what the boss calls liveliness, because the spinal reflex is all about inspiration that relies on intuition, and a lot of times I've followed my gut."

This also confirms that his intuition first comes from his sensors

 

[LordGinSama]

Why are people acting like Zoro can't dodge?

 

[Hiiilt]

cecilus fra

 

[VortechsTG]

Why are people acting like Zoro can't dodge?

He can, but only for so long. Cecilus can simply last longer. And even if Zoro manages to graze him Cecilus can keep fighting with his chest torn open and his heart exposed.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Why are people acting like Zoro can't dodge?

Because in the mind of Re Zero debaters their characters are geniuses and anyone who fights them in a versus match is just so stupid they won’t try to do anything.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ok, so Cecilus can know what he should conceivably have zero way of knowing through pure intuition.

luffy can do the same... Still can get cut by zoro

He can slow his perception down to the point where attacks faster than him appear frozen.

Proof and even if that's true, it won't help him move and zoro's reaction speed Amp with haki will do the same

Even characters who are not very skilled, like Emilia, have had analytical prediction since day one with no combat experience, and Cecilus is easily one of the most skilled characters.

pre timeskip zoro easily predicted perception blitz the same way Cecilus did...

instantly knows her opponents' weak points and abilities by looking at them.

Zoro has done the same pre timeskip

Cecilus can dodge things that are completely impossible to dodge, like every drop in the rain and numerous snaking, unpredictable constructs of light coming at him from every direction.

Those aren't impossible to dodge at all... Zoro has done the same with dodging unpredictable tentacles coming at him from all directions

His Santoryu attacks are harder to register than that of even a six sword style from Hachi, and can effortlessly parry slashes coming at him from every direction while using foreign swords. Hachi firmly believing that there's a vast skill gap between 6 armed Fish-Men like himself and that of humans, despite Hachi believing in this statement Zoro is able to dance around Hachi effortlessly.

And if you still, for some reason, don't think he can dodge what Zoro can throw at him, even with a normal sword, he can pick it up for the first time ever, instantly run simulations of training with it millions of times, then perform the perfect slash and drop an aoe nuke that destroys everything around him

Won't have time and zoro can cut/nullify explosions (if that's what you suggesting) and zoro won't give him any time at all to do that

And here he has two swords of power. The weaker of the two conceptually cuts the "point" of something and has such a sharp cutting edge that even a normal person swinging it will cut space and cut through everything in their line of sight in front of the slash. We don't even know what the stronger of the two is capable of, other than that it's something to do with dreams.

Zoro has better and more ranged slashes that can one shot him, also can be easily dodged

I'm voting Cecilus.

So basically the only thing you voted based on was the being able to cut space and stuff... Tho his profile doesn't have dura neg or any of those abilities listed

 

[Arkenis]

Does Ob haki let Zoro determine which Cec is the real one from his after image creation? Its said it was beyond all of Julius's defensive reflexes.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He can, but only for so long. Cecilus can simply last longer. And even if Zoro manages to graze him Cecilus can keep fighting with his chest torn open and his heart exposed.

zoro can continue fighting even after losing more than 5 liters of blood in his body (a human body has 5 liters of blood btw), and is able to endure things that's supposed to actually kill him

This is the kind of predicament I've been waiting for!

In his quest for greater strength, Zoro puts himself in a tight spot. Victory or death! Believing that such an extreme situation will make him stronger! No matter the predicament he finds himself in, Zoro's faith remains unshaken. After his battle with Mihawk, his mind has gained even stronger willpower, and he is on fire in his insatiable quest for strength.

↓Happily tackle further ordeals. You can only become as strong as the number of times you have gone under the line of death.

Talking about Johnny Yosaku's brother

Aniki, you always bleed when you get cut, don't you? If he were a normal person, he would die instantly. But his brother Zoro heals himself just by falling asleep, so he really is a monster.

If you bleed so much, you'll really die.

Every time you bleed out, it's a sign of a deadly battle!

Mihawk battle
3L of blood loss

Buggy battle
1L of blood loss

Battle of the Nyaban brothers
1.5L of blood loss

Battle between Hatsu-chan and Aaron
5L of blood loss

So no... He's not outlasting zoro at all especially when he also gets much stronger in battle, being able to do no damage on an opponent, to then being able to one shot him

 

[CurrySenpai]

OH yeah, Zoro's Reactive Evolution is ******* insane I forgot about that.

 

[Zabazab]

This is also incorrect for the reasons i gave above. They're more than fast enough to dodge rain fall, rain falls at 14MPH and this dude is Massive Hypersonic+ with Analytical Prediction.

This feat isn't nearly as impressive as its being made out to be.

This simply is not true, it has nothing to do with speed, a human being is simply too big to dodge the rain. Even if the raindrops were frozen-still and the person had infinite speed, running through without being touched would be impossible.

 

[SeijiSetto]

This is also incorrect for the reasons i gave above. They're more than fast enough to dodge rain fall, rain falls at 14MPH and this dude is Massive Hypersonic+ with Analytical Prediction.

This feat isn't nearly as impressive as its being made out to be.

The speed of the rain is largely irrelevant, no? I didn't mention it once at all.
The droplets could be stationary in the air and shit wouldn't change.
You didn't tackle my point about there not being a space large enough for a human to actually dodge or weave through raindroplets, which is the crux of what I'm trying to get across.
What Ceci did is physically impossible, it's akin to sticking your hand in a bathtub and "dodging" the water molecules to avoid being wet.

 

[LordGinSama]

This simply is not true.

Unfortunately for you it is.

it has nothing to do with speed.

It has everything to do with speed. It's dodging, he'd just need to be quick enough to avoid the rain drops which fall at 14MPH.

a human being is simply too big to dodge the rain.

In real life sure, in fiction it's entirely possible. Dante and Virgil have a similar fight that got like Mach 40+ so again this isn't nearly as impressive as your attempting to make it sound.

Even if the raindrops were frozen-still and the person had infinite speed, running through without being touched would be impossible.

Yeah big no there buddy. That's infinite speed vs something that would be seen as stagnant, they'd have an infinite amount of time to dodge lmfao. Again this only applies to real life, not fiction. Your acting as if the raindrops lack a travel distance or a set amount of speed. Hell the AoE isn't even that impressive as it would also heavily depend on the type of cloud and how for long it rained.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You didn't tackle my point about there not being a space large enough for a human to actually dodge or weave through raindroplets, which is the crux of what I'm trying to get across.
What Ceci did is physically impossible, it's akin to sticking your hand in a bathtub and "dodging" the water molecules to avoid being wet.

yet it's implied he did have enough space... So that assumption gets debunked by his statments, it's not a natural storm also from the the view of the statments

A realm filled with ``death'', a mountain of corpses that must dodge the raindrops in the storm...

"If that's what you need! Dodge raindrops or sand grains!"

If you are exposed to it, you will die, if you are killed, you will be destroyed, and if you are destroyed, it will be the end.

---

He keeps dodging all flying crystals and is very glad that he is not adult because it's easier with childs body.

 

[Zabazab]

zoro has continued fighting even after losing more than 5 liters of blood in his body (a human body has 5 liters of blood btw), and is able to endure things that's supposed to actually kill him

This is frankly a feat of Type 2 Immortality.

So no... He's not outlasting zoro at all especially when he also gets much stronger in battle, being able to do no damage on an opponent, to then being able to one shot him

Cecilus himself has incredible rapid growth.

He got parried and one-shot by the strongest character in his verse while the latter was wearing a collar that suppresses his strength and wielding a broken shard of metal between his fingertips.

After challenging him again while the strongest character was at full-power and wielding the strongest sword, he gave him "an enjoyable match".

Plus the whole "mental-training arc where he swings a sword a hundred million times in his mind" thing.

 

[LordGinSama]

The speed of the rain is largely irrelevant, no? I didn't mention it once at all.

It's largely relevant hence why I brought it up.

The droplets could be stationary in the air and shit wouldn't change.

This is also incorrect. Rain doesn't just spawn onto you, it needs to drop from the sky to the ground at 14MPH.

You didn't tackle my point about there not being a space large enough for a human to actually dodge or weave through raindroplets.

This one also depends on context such as where they were fighting and the size of said area. But this is very easy to accomplish in an open area like outside with sufficient speed.

which is the crux of what I'm trying to get across.
What Ceci did is physically impossible, it's akin to sticking your hand in a bathtub and "dodging" the water molecules to avoid being wet.

Yeah no. That's Submersion vs rain droplets. This example doesn't work because rain doesn't Submerge the target.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is frankly a feat of Type 2 Immortality.

nah... Just a willpower feat gg

Supernatural Willpower (Zoro can form tangible illusions from his will alone, can survive injuries that would normally kill a human just by his willpower)

Cecilus himself has incredible rapid growth.

He got parried and one-shot by the strongest character in his verse while the latter was wearing a collar that suppresses his strength and wielding a broken shard of metal between his fingertips.

After challenging him again while the strongest character was at full-power and wielding the strongest sword, he gave him "an enjoyable match".

And what I said is much more impressive... Zoro wasn't able to do any damage at all, yet in the middle of the fight while supposed to have died through the eyes of his opponent, got stronger and one shot him

 

[Zabazab]

This one also depends on context such as where they were fighting and the size of said area. But this is very easy to accomplish in an open area like outside with sufficient speed.

Have you ever been outside when it's raining? Rain surrounds you in every direction at every angle.

You're speaking like the feat was "running a distance before rain falls far enough to reach people" when the feat is "running through a rainstorm without any droplets hitting him".

 

[LordGinSama]

Have you ever been outside when it's raining? Rain surrounds you in every direction at every angle.

Not really. Rain isn't instantaneous, it covers a wide range of area but it still needs to travel to cover that area. Furthermore and foremost it'd depend on the size of the rain clouds.

You're speaking like the feat was "running a distance before rain falls far enough to reach people" when the feat is "running through a rainstorm without any droplets hitting him".

His running speed is MHS+. Rain falls at a speed of 14MPH, he could have very easily also just swatted them away.


Again not sure why your acting like this is the be all end all feats of dodging. Especially when the feat is vague as **** as to how he accomplished it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Again not sure why your acting like this is the be all end all feats of dodging. Especially when the feat is vague as **** as to how he accomplished it.

Or if it's actually a rainstorm... Seems kinda hyperbole

The heroine did not flinch even after getting hit by Cecilius's sword and had fine magic crystals growing on her shoulders and arms, making it look like she had a angel wings.

There is one particularly eye catching thin magic stone that floats softly around the heroine.

She fires one of the magic stone towards him, but he decided to lick it and then is dissapointed about the taste.



---

"I see, this tastes strange. What a jewel taste?"

If it looks like candy, it tastes just like when you roll a jewel in your mouth and you're disappointed - in other words, what the heroine wears is a jewel belt.

“Come to think of it, at the beginning you were emitting light and fire, but in the middle you changed to stone pillars and earthen limbs. So the jewels are also an extension of that... It's really elegant and I like it! Good. That’s great, it increases the climax level!”

"--Heavenly Maiden of Kongo Stone!!"

---

Cecilius releases fast slash that can cut even iron castle in two. The heroine fires all 12 diamonds from her robe towards him from all directions to kill him.

---

A realm filled with ``death'', a mountain of corpses that must dodge the raindrops in the storm...

"If that's what you need! Dodge raindrops or sand grains!"

If you are exposed to it, you will die, if you are killed, you will be destroyed, and if you are destroyed, it will be the end.

---

He keeps dodging all flying crystals and is very glad that he is not adult because it's easier with childs body.

"Let your imagination run wild here!"

The onslaught continued and he ignored all the gushing blood from his shallow wounds. His thoughs start being accelerated even more, but if things continue like this, Cecilius will be bored. So he instead uses all of his functions to look good on the stage.

And also it says he got shallow wounds from it

 

[CurrySenpai]

Or if it's actually a rainstorm... Seems kinda hyperbole

You'll find Re:Zero supporters love that (I'm allowed to say this Satella is my bestie)

 

[Zabazab]

Not really. Rain isn't instantaneous, it covers a wide range of area but it still needs to travel to cover that area. Furthermore and foremost it'd depend on the size of the rain clouds.
His running speed is MHS+. Rain falls at a speed of 14MPH, he could have very easily also just swatted them away.

You are failing a hurdle of spatial awareness.

Ignore speed for a second, it literally does not matter for this. This is not a speed issue.

Within a rainstorm, the gaps in the rain are too small for a human being to move through. They are a couple centimetres at most. Rain is simply too dense to run through without getting wet. It is physically impossible to dodge rain.

 

[VortechsTG]

Won't have time and zoro can cut/nullify explosions (if that's what you suggesting) and zoro won't give him any time at all to do that

They aren't explosions. They're slashes.

Zoro has better and more ranged slashes that can one shot him, also can be easily dodged

Zoro has "better" slashes than cutting the conceptual point of everything in an aoe all around him? They also have the same range.

So basically the only thing you voted based on was the being able to cut space and stuff...

That is a very minor point, not "the only thing (I) voted based on".

Tho his profile doesn't have dura neg or any of those abilities listed

That's what happens when you try to make a match with a character literally in the middle of a battle in series. There should be a crt within the next week or so.