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Killer Queen's Sin (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure vs Devil May Cry | 7-1-4)
- Thread starter WyattR612
- Start date
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So like, that's it?
Also this scan literally prefaces it by saying if they're given time they can do it. Shit 100% ain't instant.and why it's even being scaled to everyone is kind of baffling as it is, but that's neither here or there.
Also this scan literally prefaces it by saying if they're given time they can do it. Shit 100% ain't instant.
noninho
He/Him- 3,648
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X layers ≠ Xd abilities, afaik
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To begin with, are we using Tony or Dante? Both are in the 8C key but Tony is pretty much haxless beyond regen negation and reactive evolution while Dante can get angry and pretty much stand there and hax to win.
Edit: I saw a little of the argument in the past pages but I'm kinda busy so not responding to everything but to summarize:
Demon world hax and bs = 4D
Demons are naturally immune to that aka 4D resistances
Demons normally bypass each other's resistances to do whatever bs they are trying to do
Dante is a peak of example of the above.
Demonic energy is currently accepted as 3D but it can bypass 4D resistances. I blame mister and the weirdly made blog but that's what it is.
Pretty sure Tony can see stands as he can see all sort of non physical shit.
With that said, unless Tony is given enough time to adapt and evolve, he will die.
Edit: I saw a little of the argument in the past pages but I'm kinda busy so not responding to everything but to summarize:
Demon world hax and bs = 4D
Demons are naturally immune to that aka 4D resistances
Demons normally bypass each other's resistances to do whatever bs they are trying to do
Dante is a peak of example of the above.
Demonic energy is currently accepted as 3D but it can bypass 4D resistances. I blame mister and the weirdly made blog but that's what it is.
Pretty sure Tony can see stands as he can see all sort of non physical shit.
With that said, unless Tony is given enough time to adapt and evolve, he will die.
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Lad, Kira is 128x quicker than him, Dante is getting vaporized before he can do anything.
Layered.
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How much and why?
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On the page? Things that can **** with souls, spirits, etc, can't **** with Stands nor see them, despite the former being intangible and imperceptible.
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Dante:
Kira:
*Can kill with a touch.
*KQ won't be noticed early in the fight.
*KQ can effectively blitz if/when they get close enough
*Has lower range
My take:
I personally think it's inconclusive.
If Dante shoots Kira from a distance and KQ tries to block it he dead. If Dante instead tries to get close to Kira KQ will explode him. If kira sends SHA and tries to run there are 2 possible outcomes, Dante shoots him down or he tries to pursue and SHA blows him up.
Kira can avoid close quarters but at a distance he is ****** while Dante likes to play h2h more in this key but is willing to shoot anyone down depending on the distance. If KQ tries to touch the bullets, it either gets soul haxed to hell and back or deconstructed.
There is also Majin Form but this form of Dante is weird.
- Can get around the AP difference with RE/AD and one shot with soul/fear hax.
- Dante can sense a lot of things including bloodlust and bad intent and even if he couldn't sense KQ itself at first he would adapt after a few moments and do so.
- Is likely to dodge as he has done so in the past as Tony
- Has higher range
Kira:
*Can kill with a touch.
*KQ won't be noticed early in the fight.
*KQ can effectively blitz if/when they get close enough
*Has lower range
My take:
I personally think it's inconclusive.
If Dante shoots Kira from a distance and KQ tries to block it he dead. If Dante instead tries to get close to Kira KQ will explode him. If kira sends SHA and tries to run there are 2 possible outcomes, Dante shoots him down or he tries to pursue and SHA blows him up.
Kira can avoid close quarters but at a distance he is ****** while Dante likes to play h2h more in this key but is willing to shoot anyone down depending on the distance. If KQ tries to touch the bullets, it either gets soul haxed to hell and back or deconstructed.
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Cant Kira deadass just shoot SHA towards Dante and fck him up like that?
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How before he's vaped?
SHA is 30x stronger as well, there's no RE/AD bridging that gap.
Fear hax wouldn't even stop SHA or KQ to begin with even if it did affect Kira.
Not how this works, KQ is layered, if he doesn;'t have layed NPI of that type, he isn't sensing shit.
Sensing Kira's bloodlust won't tell him there's an invisible punch ghost 128x quicker than him or a tank that can vaporize him through raw power up his ass, where theyre coming from, what theyre doing, etc.
If anything sensing Kira's bloodlust and assuming he's the main enemy, is just gonna work against him.
He isn't dodging something 128x faster than him. Why is this even an argument.
SHA has infinite range, and Kira legit in character doesn't mind ******* off and letting it hunt down a foe forever.
SHA.
The fight will literally last seconds.
KQ will literally dust every attack thrown at Kira, getting close is a nonissue.
SHA.
No? KQ can literally transmutate and dust it, I don't think you realize the gap here.
Also Dante's stuff can't even harm KQ because it lacks layered NPI.
Happening regardless.
What? SHA is coming out no matter what, it's in character, he just stopped using it against Josuke because Josuke can nullify it.
This is also an asinine conclusion. Shoot him down how? He still has KQ, KQ and SHA can be used simutaneously, and is something he even employed in character, doing both at once forcing a foe to pick between dealing with SHA or KQ, and whatever they attempted to deal with, the other would just get them instead.
No he isn't because he has a 128x quicker ghost that can evaporateanything Dante attempts to throw at him at range, all while Dante has to deal with an invisible homing tank that will one shot him that he won't even know exists till it blows him up.
Exceeeept, they lack the NPI to actually affect KQ.
As an fyi, Kira himself can literally just dodge Dante's gunfire, he's 128x quicker in reactions himself.
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Yeah, idk why we acting like he literally can't use SHA and KQ at the same time, he does against Koichi even.
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"The dude who favors CQC is gonna incon the dude who blitzes and instant kills him in CQC with a touch, and also has a homing one shot tank he won't even realize is a thing at range, and also 128x quicker so he can just dodge and counter everything all while his foe apparently doesn't even have the relevant NPI and ESP to even fight him properly".
Are we really doing this? For reference, literally you reading this would have a better chance of dodging a bullet at 2m away after it was fired, than Dante has reacting to anything here. The gap between Dante is over 4x the gap between you and a standard pistol (about 30x average human reactions for that distance). I don't think I need to explain why none of you is even close to reacting to a bullet pointblank.
Are we really doing this? For reference, literally you reading this would have a better chance of dodging a bullet at 2m away after it was fired, than Dante has reacting to anything here. The gap between Dante is over 4x the gap between you and a standard pistol (about 30x average human reactions for that distance). I don't think I need to explain why none of you is even close to reacting to a bullet pointblank.
noninho
He/Him- 3,648
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Dunno about the other voters for this side, but I'm only using the rule we have here on the site, since we're not going anywhere here
But nothing stops you to remaking the match or getting other Jojo Supporters to help here (I compromise that if 1 or 2 votes are needed, imma change votes so that we reach the long awaited grace period)
Just chill, mate. Everything's fine.
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When half the arguments literally aren't allowed because it isn't detailed on the profiles, or is just "yeah im sure he can lmao", despite the fact they don't have said ability.
No, that's just being ignorant. Why remake the match? The arguments are faulty and lack basic recogniation of huge nigh-impossible to get past hurdles here, it'd be different if the arguments didn't ignore basic stuff or literally just go "well i FEEL like he could so...", it don't matter if you think he can, if it isn't layered he isn't, that's how the wiki works.
Or like just saying "oh Dante can shoot him", while ignoring why that's essentially impossible, isn't an argument, nor is it means for an inconclusive. My dude, "Dante has IA so he can just dodge", isn't an argument when IA isn't a speed amp, for example, it's just words that don't mean anything.
We also have rules in place about arguments needing to actually hold weight, for them to be considered, you know this, I'm not sure why I'm having to explain it to you.
noninho
He/Him- 3,648
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Man, chill.
Call other jojo supporters and imma help you, or the match unfortunately is incon due to sheer size and people not getting to a solution (faulty arguments present or not)
Just chill
(And no need to explain stuff, I'm accompanying what's going on here, it's OK : )
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Assuming someone's mood over text is obnoxious, extremely so actually.
You aren't, there's nothing to help with?
That literally isn't allowed, you know this, I know this, stop pretending otherwise.
"Oh this 1 tonner would beat Goku" isn't an argument, it doesn't matter what people think nor how many think it, it isn't accepted on the profiles that the 1 tonner is actually like 800exafoe, whether or not that's an argument and dudes go "oh FRA", it isn't a thing. Half the arguments presented don't exist, they're not eligible.
And sheer size? Hate to break it to you, but that also not how incons work, 3 pages isn't massive, if it was 30 sure, 3 is actually laughable.
You're actively just grasping for reasons to force an inconclusive while making admission there's objectively wrong and not accepted reasoning for it. Taking said faulty reasonings and going "oh damn incon ig", if anything, is report worthy given you've acknowledged it, the problem is with you at this point.
Again, assuming someone's mood over text is beyond obnoxious. Am I suddenly not allowed to go "yeah arguments that rely on NLF and things actively not accepted aren't allowed" because such a thing isn't "chill"? If that's the case, I don't really care about being some arbitrary chill.
I'm straight up telling you how it is, give actual arguments with accepted stuff or things that aren't just impossible like Dante IA'ing a dodge against something he'd never be able to, if you want to force an inconclusive, just saying stuff that isn't accepted or literally against the rules isn't subject to the "rule" you're referencing, given we literally have other rules in place to stop such a thing.
Like what in the actual hell are you talking about dude? That isn't how matches work.
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Lol the cope
Well, I did my part here and I'm not that interested in the match. The supposed NPI layers on the other hand... They haven't even been accepted which means KQ loses a big ass advantage here.
Even looking at the blog there is 0 scans about it being layered or anything like that, hell part 4 even contradicts this with the ghost hands ******* over Kira and KQ.
Well, I did my part here and I'm not that interested in the match. The supposed NPI layers on the other hand... They haven't even been accepted which means KQ loses a big ass advantage here.
Even looking at the blog there is 0 scans about it being layered or anything like that, hell part 4 even contradicts this with the ghost hands ******* over Kira and KQ.
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You do know stuff can be accepted outside that thread, right? Stands having layered intangibility has been a thing for years at this point
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"Dante gets past a 128x speed gap and being one shot because I said so so it's cope".
Give me an actual reason and not nonsense. Surely you can do that right?
Did you read the Stand page? Because they have been accepted. Actually read the profiles before you spout shit.
Ghost Hands aren't ghosts, they aren't even ghost hands? That's a fan term. Why are you spouting literal fanon.
And we don't have a blog, we have a power page, which, is accepted.
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Like a lot of verses prior to the standard change? Yeah, duh, that's why that thread was made, to re-evaluate everything.
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Except the stands conform perfectly with the standards. So yeah.
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Get it re-evaluated and accepted then.
Don't put words in my mouth fam, cope if you can't read
Blog, page, same thing, it doesn't show any scans about it.
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Get it downgraded first. Then we are talking.
I will not entertain this further.
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No need to, thread there explains it perfectly.
Good for you ig
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"F&G thread that just happened to be made a place to accept stuff for convience is the end all be all and nothing counts be-"
Dude, you're joking right?
Hell I'll give you some scans I had on hand given I'm working on Stand fuckery stuff atm
For esp.
Mikitaka lacks the ESP to see Stands, guides even double down on the fact he can't so it isn't him pretending.
I'm not going to explain why that's an obvious issue.
That's just one example, now explain why Dante gets past the layered ESP before continuing.
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Saying cope isn't an argument, and also you're right, you didn't even use words to explain why, you just said "he dodges", which is even worse.
Actually explain and give reasoning or your argument falls apart before it even began.
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So he just shows up with the rest of the gang? In the manga he looks up at the sky but otherwise never interacts with Reimi so it's dubious. I would let it pass but then again re-evaluation thread is waiting.
What about the ghost hands tho? They are literally that, ghost hands, fanon name or not.
Can't you read? I literally said in my comment that getting close equals to him getting blitzed.
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Ignoring the fact the anime gave him a line there where he directly speaks to Reimi saying he came to see her off.
You realize that alley isn't even perceptible to those who can't see ghosts? "He shows up to the gang to a place he can't enter or perceive to meet a character he can't see or perceive, to watch said character he can't perceive leave". Looks up at the sky?
Way to be disengious. By sky you mean the soul?
Why be obtuse? Stop wasting everyone's time with stuff that's been accepted and has been for ages because it wasn't accepted in a specific place when it doesn't even have to be.
He wouldn't even be able to see Koichi or Rohan fyi given they're in ghost alley space, it'd be like a gap in space.
Don't like that? Monks can see ghosts but not Stands. Spiritually inclined can see ghosts and not Stands. Hamon warriors can see ghosts but not Stands till they manifest one. There's even yokai and shit that are generally invisible but can be seen sometimes but even those can't see Stands. Etc.
Like what's the argument here? You need layered ESP, Dante doesn't have it, so he can't.
Except they aren't? They some weird fuckass force of nature or law. It'd be like calling Wonder of U a "ghost".
Can you read your own stuff first? You said he'd dodge, how? He can't, at all, he's 128x slower. Ignoring the fact he can't perceive or sense it, so he wouldn't even know to dodge, Dante dodging is literally harder than you doding a bullet, by a few times over. Which is to say tough luck, he can't even if he knew it was coming.
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