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KId Buu vs Ultra necrozma

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DodoNova2 said:
PaChi !!! it's been a while since I've seen you:)

Regarding the match up, it depends on the intangibility of Necrozma
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I just spent 8 hours of study today and I feel I should continue. Until next friday I dont think you will see me that much sadly.
 
Making Buu must be one shot and destroyed on an atomic level to be defeated. Anything else will not kill him. The only way Vegito was going to defeat Buu was by destroying every part of his body without letting anything exist under an atomic level.

Kid Buu wouldn't likely use absorption or teleportation tactically, but he would still use them in some way. He would teleport if he had to, no matter what, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered looking for Goku and Vegeta for the Kai's if he has no common sense, nor would he be able to absorb anyone up until this point. Let's not assume that Necrozma isn't intangible, due to being dragon/psychic and vulnerable to physical attacks of normal and fighting type. Intangibility is inconsistent in Pokémon anyway.
 
@J-Man

You do realize the dead from the afterlife can go to the Kai world too right? It's all in the same world and as cal already confirmed, they aren't separate space times anyway.

Since when did Buu's duplicates do that?

Don't call me out on using type arguments when you pretty much did the same thing when bringing up the anime (which still debunks you too when using Haunter). And so what if Buu is "pure magic"?

Yeah no. Sorry if this sounds rude, but Necro not being real light is a very laughable thing to say no offense and some of us here will heavily debate against that. He provides light to all worlds, there's no way he isn't real light.

I believe his AP was confirmed above (not that it matters, he's getting upgraded soon anyway).


@PaChi2

It's beyond me if Necro being light is intangible or not so if most of us disagree to that im fine if it isn't intagibility tbh. My main issue here is why Lunala wouldn't give him that. Lunala's ghost typing still gives her limited intangibility to whatever ghosts no-sell and Necrozma literally takes her whole body upon absorbtion and retains it as Ultra. Of course im not saying U.N. should be a ghost type but we can't just suddenly ignore Lunala being a thing for him too.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Didn't Kid Buu trick one of the Kais so that he can absorb him?
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If your talking about South Kai no. South Kai was already too weakened from his fight with Kid Buu and wasn't able to counter Buu restraining him, so he was just straight up absorbed.
 
No. And that topic is heavily debated. We got visual proof as is .

Since the start?

Funny, ya know how many instances I can bring up that contradict the one ya brought up? One? Two? Like 50? want me to grab haunter getting Hit?

Provides light , but his body defintly isnt . And actually his ap was confirmed to be below by glass .
 
I was saying that Atomic level is what is needed to kill him. I agree with the vapor thing.

Super Buu, who was blown into pieces, and then those pieces were burned down by Piccolo and Gotenks in the time chamber-- came back from ashes and smoke.
 
I highly doubt that if even staff say no to the space-time stuff. So unless you got something new, they aren't separate.

Again, evidence. Unless your talking about the little pieces of him left behind, which aren't exactly clones.

By elemental moves? Sure. But that debunks nothing about him having intangibility toward other stuff. It isn't like he has intangibility to everything because he certainly doesnt.

No clarification on Glass saying that and evidence? You only have pokemon "hitting him" in-game and I already countered why that wouldnt work.
 
Amexim said:
No intangibility, because this Necrozma isn't ghost type anymore.
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And yet still has Lunala's body to even make Ultra Necro. We can't suddenly ignore that and focus on type alone.

Kyurem fusing with Reshiram or Zekrom changes his signature move to ice type. Doesn't mean it doesnt have fire/electric properities along with it.
 
Half the staff . It was torn . And ?

Talking about the pieces , but saud pieces can turn into clones .

No I mean literally everything in between Kukui .

Ya didn coubter anything , ya only pulled the "game mecganics" line when that can't even be the case when literally nothing but an off hand line from the website contradicts that , not that he acts like real light anyway .

Clarification? Ctrl+F man .
 
Talking about it here is useless, its discussions are unceasing and extremely boring, personally I do not think about the 2 space time, I hope it will be settled quickly in any case
 
Which got accepted, so no dice.

Fair enough on the clones.

What would it matter if he was real or fake light when neither are tangible? And again, they'd have to be able to hit him in-game or no one would have been able to stop Necro. And again, you'll need more than that to convince us he himself isn't real light.

What exactly is this supposed to mean?
 
Also, isn't Necrozma able to actively choose to be tangible or not whenever? I believe the cutscene when he leaves Ultra Megaopolis shows this. He desperses into light, energy, (etc.) and goes back to the main world, the recon sqaud even state this.
 
If the dispersal is what gives him intangibility, then fine. It being intangible to physical moves for any other reason is very dubious-- based on inconsistencies in those areas and a lack of proof for that idea in games and in showings in other media to my knowledge. Not only that, but one could argue that having Lunala as a component being a reason why he can be intangible is conflicted by both Necrozma and Solgaleo not having that intangibility.

As for him being real or fake light, it needs to be confirmed to be real light and proven that he is always intangible. He could be some kind of hard-light being that can disperse itself like Kizaru-- the Light Logua of One Piece. Kizaru can still be hit if off guard. We aren't sure if Necrozma works the same. Also, please refrain from using a Meta Reason as an argument against claims that stand against intangible necrozma. It doesn't matter what the creators had to do to make the game or story work, it's about what is in the story. Same reason as to why we excepted the fact that Yhwach from Bleach lost to Ichigo, even though he shouldn't have and the victory was PIS/WIS.
 
As far as the "inconsistencies" go, its not even inconsistent. We need to stop with this. It's literally just LIMITED intangiblity to certain stuff, that's it. Ghost types (if that's what ur referring to) aren't intangible to everything. Also what does Solgaleo have to with Lunala being intangible or not?

I don't even know what the 2nd paragraph's point supposed to be.
 
Your argument was that Necrozma has Lunala as a part of it, and thus should have intangibility, right? I'm saying that not only is Necrozma itself without either of the components not a GHOST Type, but it's also comprised of someone who explicitly doesn't have intangibility. So, to say that Necrozma should have the traits of Lunala because of it being a part of it in this form fails to recognize that the same logic could be used for Solgaleo making Necrozma not intangible. It's inconsistent for Ghost intangibility to be applied when there are other moments in the story that make it so that Ghosts can be hit. But we can write those off as WIS if you like.


And the second paragraph basically means that it doesn't matter if the story or game had to be balanced, the fact that a character's abilities aren't displayed as you claim they could be, and with little in game justification in your claim's favor to add to that-- Necrozma might not have passive intangibility like a ghost type would. Saying "lolgameballamce" isn't an argument for it.
 
For one, any evidence that ghost types have passive intangiblity and aren't able to just choose when they're tangible?

Second, that literally changes nothing. It simply means Necrozma has alternate abilities (hence why we have separate abilities and separate keys for him when possessing Lunala and Solgaleo in their respective games). Thats like saying its inconsistent for Kyurem to have both Zekrom and Reshiram's abilities and only have one of each when he'd still have both just not at once. Necrozma would have intangibility through Lunala. When using Solgaleo, he doesnt. All there is to it. We're not shutting down one because of the other. And I dont know what you mean my "expicitlity" because Lunala definitely has intangibility to stuff (some, not all) and its ridiculous to say Necro wouldnt get it when his Dusk and Ultra forms are 100% comprised of Lunala's literal body when using her. Also, show me these "moments" in the game when ghost types are targeted.

It kinda does when thats the ONLY place in-game when regular mon hit it. If it was an actual cutscene, you'd have a point here.
 
So Ultra Necrozma isn't treated as a 50/50 combination of Solgaleo and Lunala? We're just using Lunala as a base? Necrozma doesn't assimilate Solgaleo as well to become Ultra? I haven't played the games-- just Showdown, so I am not aware of this. I figured that Necrozma assimilated both at the same time to become ultra-- despite the in game justification being using a specific move or something, I can't remember.

Also, Foresight, and strange things in the anime like that which J-man mentioned above.
 
Ahh then my bad on this point, I thought you played the games or knew stuff on it already. Again my apologies, and sorry if this was a spoiler too. But yeah Necro doesnt absorb both in 1 game he absorbs either in 2 games. In Ultra Moon he absorbs Lunala. Ultra Sun Solgaleo.

However, Foresight doesnt count because its explicity an ability that allows ghosts to be hit, its not a normal occurence and those strange things were already countered to be stuff ghost types aren't intangible to. The elemental abilities. Thats why its limited intangibility and not full on intangibility to everything.
 
In that case, I can kinda let you get a pass on intangibility...? I don't know though. (I mean, most inconsistencies that aren't elemental moves are PIS, like the Gastly hugging.)

So, what couldn't Necrozma dodge from Buu? Because Ki seems akin to Aura Sphere and Focus blast or Hyper beam. So no blasts are getting through.

Yeah, maybe Necrozma...? Idk.
 
Now the Gastly hugging is a diff story but that might just be a PIS.

Honestly, it seems that Necro can get past all of buus stuff, even candy beam and absorbtion can fail pretty handily here.
 
So if none of his hax can work on this guy, doesn't that make it a stomp since Buu can't harm intangible beings?
 
Just saying, but ultra necrozma doesn't have lunalas intangibility (is lunala even intangible? Ghost typing diesnt give an automatic intangibility, golurk, aegislash and chadulure come to mind) . And necrizma actually has no answer to absorbtion or candy beam .or at least any hed likely use . And glass, did ya not state necrozma is only 30 or 40 foe.

And Kukui, I'm starting to think you have zero idea what PIS actually entails .
 
Not ultra , he lacks the ghost typing , the only intangibility he had is logia . And even then , kinda lacks any actual showings . Hence not even listed as an actual concrete ability .
 
For the 1000th time, Ghost typing would give you limited intangibility to some stuff, not all. And what does Golurk, Aegislash and Chandulure actually prove here? Besides which, Lunala definitely has intangibility to some stuff and we can't suddenly ignore that for Ultra when posessing her since he's literally using her whole body to make up Dusk and Ultra form. Typing alone isnt an argument against this and Kyurem kinda debunks it. He remains an ice type when fusing with Reshiram/Zekrom but still posesses their fire and electric abilities. This is no different. Not that Necro should be considered a ghost type because it'd be wrong to but it'd also be wrong to not consider Lunala either.

>No answer for absorption or candy beam

Don't ignore what was clarified more than 5x above. The absorbtion blobs get destroyed (If Kid Buu would even be smart enough to use them and no one countered that point) and the candy beam literally gets dodged or even blown back at Buu.
 
Kid Buu has the teleportation which doesn't require concentration or ki signature and he can use it for his candy beam.

He can also scatter random blobs here and there just in case anything goes wrong, and Kid Buu is smart enough to use absorption. He used it on the Kais.
 
It proves not all ghost types are intangible Kukui. And? Ultra takes her energy , but ya can clearly see he ain't ghost type nor dies he retain the properties of her form .

And kyurem=/=necro.

Kyurem actually has a unique move with that property still .

>destroy the blobs .

Cool and? Wont stop him from doing it again. And why would he? Oh and buy actually did do that , no one countered ya because itd be like countering someone asking if cell regenerated from lethal wounds , he obviously did it and was entegrail to the story .

>dodging is an answer.

By that logic buu counters everything necro has because he can somehow dodge. Dodging isbtban answer, especially when that beam barely has any difference from the others .

>deflect the beam back.

Why? Necrozma suddenly deflect that one beam back? Not only dies he not have prior info but if he us so much strong hed likely tank if everything else doesnt harm him (ignoring necro doing stuff like that is even more ooc than buu teleporting). Oh and if it was so easy to deflect back had think litterally everyone else would have .

Oh and kinda ignoring necro currently isn't 5 billion more powerful than buu , apparently buu has the advantage .
 
Except none of those ghost types are ever hurt by anything other than elemental stuff, so it has nothing to do with them having limited intangiblity. So we need to stop with this. If we were arguing full on intangiblity, you'd be correct here. But we aren't. We're only allowing the stuff that ghost pokemon intangiblity no-sell, so unless you got examples of fighting or normal stuff regularly hitting ghost types, WITHOUT assistances like Foresight, this point is completely moot.

>"Kyurem=/=Necro"

Not an argument. You'll need to explain more to try and make them different, which I seriously doubt. Kyurem fuses with Zekrom/Reshiram and keeps their abilities despite being Dragon and Ice. If thats the case, the same exact things applying to the Alola legendaries. Nothing makes them different.

Destroying the blobs over and over will clearly be teidious for Buu to keep sending them out, unless your fine with him being an idiot to do the same thing constantly. And again, he did it but clearly not to the tactical extent your overselling it to because unless he's beating Necro down to a bulp good luck tricking him to be absorbed. If anything Necrozma can just absorb the blobs via contact.

Thats not how this works. By "dodging" im clearly meaning the candy beam is avoidable. It isnt like the moment its fired Necro can't do anything at all. And prior info to literally blow a beam back? Yeah no. Its common sense or if anything very easy to do and Necrozma isnt an idiot. All he have to do is blow, thats it. Nothing more to it.

Which is again stated where? No one here stated that and if you think otherwise, quote it.
 
If you're asking me if I can find ghost types being hit by non elemental shit, the answer is yes Kukui. Kinda what ice been saying .

Actually is an argument, completely different lifeforms, not even Pokemon, and unlike necro , kyurem actually he is returning to how he originally was, he usbt siphoning energy off anything, he is merely taking parts of his original self or did ya completely forget that kyurem, reshiram and zekrom actually used to be one? And nothing hints that necro has the benefit . The fact he can say with a straight face >nothing majes them different. When litterally everything makes kyurem and necro different is astounding .

Tedious? About as tedious as moving . And ya realize he can manually control all the blobs right? All the blobs can fly and move .

And avoidable? Litterally everything necrizma has can be avoided too and plenty can be deflected. Kinda moot dont ya think?

Abd glass saud that, but went and checked myself. 31.8 foe low end was accepted . Kid buu ap stomps .
 
I don't think it's as simple as blowing the chocolate beam back without super breath like evil Buu did. That's downplay. Let's stop the intangibility debate, and focus on other aspects of the battle, because Necrozma itself has inconsistent limited intangibility due to typing and game mechanics. We don't have any further information for or against the idea of Buu's physical attacks having no effect (possibly his Ki attacks due to them possibly being normal or fighting type...?)

However, I don't think Necrozma would be aware of Absorbtion to destroy every part of Majin Buu, and personally I trust Buu to avoid attacks he couldn't dodge with Kai Kai/IT. Buu is capable of speech, and expressing pride and hubris. Common sense shouldn't be too far off to dodge an attack he couldn't run or fly from. I don't doubt that Necrozma wouldn't just blast off the absorption attempts either though.

That being said, neither one of them can do anything to each other. I vote inconclusive, due to the fact that neither parties victory conditions can be argued to likely be met because of abilities that limit solid hits. Sure, Majin Buu might be hit with enough force to be atomized-- though this is questionable as Buu's durability is inconsistent. One moment bullets pass through him, the next moment, they bounce off him and he can take punches from characters that are Solar System level. Either way, it would take multiple hits or a clean hit to get rid of Buu, which isn't likely to happen. And we don't know if Ki blasts or Punches will even touch Necrozma-- the only move Buu definitely has would be the Candy Beam, which would count as Fairy type through verse equalization. Ki blasts might be fighting type moves.

Inconclusive.
 
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