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KId Buu vs Ultra necrozma
- Thread starter Overlord775
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@Amexim
Here you go
And this is taken from the actual book volumes, further increasing its legitimatecy instead of just online translations.
Here you go
And this is taken from the actual book volumes, further increasing its legitimatecy instead of just online translations.
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For Gastly, that isn't even an argument. If anything that works more in my favor.
He and Pikachu were playing Chase, which is a game of tag in Pokepark. For Gastly to want to play that, that'd imply he purposely made himself tangible to even give Pikachu the chance to tag him.
He and Pikachu were playing Chase, which is a game of tag in Pokepark. For Gastly to want to play that, that'd imply he purposely made himself tangible to even give Pikachu the chance to tag him.
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https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t...ig_cache_key=MTQ1MzkyNTc5NjU0OTAyMDg3Nw==.2.c
This statement from Elder Kai said that he'd eventually destroy the universe.
This statement from Elder Kai said that he'd eventually destroy the universe.
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>my job nkr my problem .
Funny how things work out.
Look, either find actual evidence, which kyurem has or drop it. You're simply guessing at this point. No facts, no statements, no nothing .
No, doesn't mean anything, and the blobs can move manually anyway wgen trying to absorb .
And? There is already one glaring issye with that calc, but rather discuss that when cal brings up the 4-A calc .
And? According to how we do things here, everything is canon. And no, quick attack works knocked out or not. On any ghost , in both games. And tryst me, i could probably find a handful more instabces outsude if pokepark, but by then were entering full blown crt fir all ghost types .
Funny how things work out.
Look, either find actual evidence, which kyurem has or drop it. You're simply guessing at this point. No facts, no statements, no nothing .
No, doesn't mean anything, and the blobs can move manually anyway wgen trying to absorb .
And? There is already one glaring issye with that calc, but rather discuss that when cal brings up the 4-A calc .
And? According to how we do things here, everything is canon. And no, quick attack works knocked out or not. On any ghost , in both games. And tryst me, i could probably find a handful more instabces outsude if pokepark, but by then were entering full blown crt fir all ghost types .
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It literally goes down to either PIS or the fact that ghosts can be touched by other Pokémon as long as it's not purely physical (like how all Digimon can hit nonexistent beings)
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Cal, that exactly is purely physical .
And if it happens constantly, aint exactly pis, by that point somethibg is up .
And if it happens constantly, aint exactly pis, by that point somethibg is up .
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Having the actual body isnt a guess so enough. Matter of fact didnt you claim Necro made an entirely new body? Still waiting on evidence for that, but I guess my link to the battle kinda made that impossible. If anyone needs to find evidence its you whos hardly posted any throughout this entire convo. Kyurem and Necro are in the same boat, nothing more nothing less. Either get rid of both or accept them both. There's nothing else to it.
And thats when they get destroyed.
Your mixing things up. We don't accept every little thing canon and in this case its a spin-off mechanic vs a main series one. Even if everything was accepted, stuff like this that go right against each other surely don't. Matter of fact what proves the move in Pokepark is even quick-attack? It's just a dash, nothing else and that still doesnt mean anything when Gengar could easily just became physical? Ghost pokemon aren't passively intangible and this is clearly seen when Gastly plays chase. Unless like Cal said, pokemon can naturally hit intangibles.
And thats when they get destroyed.
Your mixing things up. We don't accept every little thing canon and in this case its a spin-off mechanic vs a main series one. Even if everything was accepted, stuff like this that go right against each other surely don't. Matter of fact what proves the move in Pokepark is even quick-attack? It's just a dash, nothing else and that still doesnt mean anything when Gengar could easily just became physical? Ghost pokemon aren't passively intangible and this is clearly seen when Gastly plays chase. Unless like Cal said, pokemon can naturally hit intangibles.
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Except , ya kniw , kyurem gains the attributes . Necro barely does, no he dies in fact keep them. But he most definitly isnt using said body anymore as his own. Kinda obvious in his defeat animation or the fact ultra necrizma is just base necrozma with a energy like dragon body .
By what exactly? You're acting like buu will just let him do as he pleases .
Actually, correct me if im wrong, but ever game and media is canon untill proven otherwise was sonethibg the one thread made abundantly obvious . And isnt that were 2-C darkrai comes from? And it is quick attack, ya can upgrade it, listed as much . And not just gengar, every ghost type .
By what exactly? You're acting like buu will just let him do as he pleases .
Actually, correct me if im wrong, but ever game and media is canon untill proven otherwise was sonethibg the one thread made abundantly obvious . And isnt that were 2-C darkrai comes from? And it is quick attack, ya can upgrade it, listed as much . And not just gengar, every ghost type .
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>Necro barely does
Dusk form says hello. The type, the moves, the body, everything. And keeps the same said body as Ultra. And not keep them? Your kinda forgetting the devices from Colress that allow you to refuse them back together again? If not keeping them was an argument, Kyurem doesnt keep Zekrom or Reshirams stuff without the DNA splicers either y'know.
By Necrozma's regular attacks? And he will keep doing this to the point where Buu will not be stupid enough to keep rehashing the same strategy, unless he's actually that dumb.
That still doesn't mean we accept every little thing down to the balls, pins and needles as canon. But assuming we do for fairness, if one mechanic clearly goes against something blatently opposite in a much higher canon, the chances of it also being canon are very very slim at best. Otherwise, primary, secondary and teitery stuff wouldnt be things at all. Still means nothing as either ghost pokemon aren't passively intangible or every pokemon can naturally hit intangibles. Take your pick.
Dusk form says hello. The type, the moves, the body, everything. And keeps the same said body as Ultra. And not keep them? Your kinda forgetting the devices from Colress that allow you to refuse them back together again? If not keeping them was an argument, Kyurem doesnt keep Zekrom or Reshirams stuff without the DNA splicers either y'know.
By Necrozma's regular attacks? And he will keep doing this to the point where Buu will not be stupid enough to keep rehashing the same strategy, unless he's actually that dumb.
That still doesn't mean we accept every little thing down to the balls, pins and needles as canon. But assuming we do for fairness, if one mechanic clearly goes against something blatently opposite in a much higher canon, the chances of it also being canon are very very slim at best. Otherwise, primary, secondary and teitery stuff wouldnt be things at all. Still means nothing as either ghost pokemon aren't passively intangible or every pokemon can naturally hit intangibles. Take your pick.
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At this point, this thread should be re-closed. Its already been clarified that Necro is getting upgraded so this match-up overall is completely pointless. Added with the fact things are derailing and are going back n forth in circles.
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Yeah, dusk form. Ultra though? Hell, ultra is just it using solgaleo or lunala as a big battery gaining power back .
Yeah, except he won't just let him do that, and you're right, hed likely use tricks and the like. While savage and beastly, but not brain dead .
Really? Because ive seen that very thing happen, hell no cherry picking man. Because it gets contradicted? If that was truly the case plenty of things would be rendered outliers, bullshit and more . Oh I'm aware gengar line had selective intangibility. But every other ghost? No, golurk being the obvious one .
Yeah, except he won't just let him do that, and you're right, hed likely use tricks and the like. While savage and beastly, but not brain dead .
Really? Because ive seen that very thing happen, hell no cherry picking man. Because it gets contradicted? If that was truly the case plenty of things would be rendered outliers, bullshit and more . Oh I'm aware gengar line had selective intangibility. But every other ghost? No, golurk being the obvious one .
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Look, it literally just means Pokemon can touch light like that. Just like they can touch electricity (like Rotom) or gases.
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Why is this even an argument being had when the official description of Ultra Necrozma states its body is made out of light?
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Ultra still has their body, as I already proved.
Because Kid Buu has ever done tricks so well? Not even against the South Kai.
Yeah no evidence to suggest Golurk doesn't have selective intangiblity. If other ghost types have it you can be sure the other ones would too.
But whatever. Last comment for tonight as I'm not spending all night to argue this back and forth to no avail. I've got school and this isn't worth it. Believe what you want to believe.
Because Kid Buu has ever done tricks so well? Not even against the South Kai.
Yeah no evidence to suggest Golurk doesn't have selective intangiblity. If other ghost types have it you can be sure the other ones would too.
But whatever. Last comment for tonight as I'm not spending all night to argue this back and forth to no avail. I've got school and this isn't worth it. Believe what you want to believe.
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Yeah he does, And?
He actually has pulled tricks befire.
Have ya ever seen golurk do that, or anything that isn't gengar/duskull/misdreavus lines? He'll, one is litterally a sword.
He actually has pulled tricks befire.
Have ya ever seen golurk do that, or anything that isn't gengar/duskull/misdreavus lines? He'll, one is litterally a sword.
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>wonder guard and literally a god .
Come on cal. Not even arguing ghost types aren't intangible, but not all of them are clearly outside of game mechanics, a number yeah, but not all .
Come on cal. Not even arguing ghost types aren't intangible, but not all of them are clearly outside of game mechanics, a number yeah, but not all .
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Yeah my bad . As much as pokemon is somethibg i enjoy, apparently i cant agree on plenty of things, not sure why .
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Not sure why you guys were arguing that Necrozma is fully Intangible. The black-ish parts of his body are clearly still physical like they used to be.
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You know what I mean.
The White parts are definitively actual light, but Necrozma clearly still has physical matter in it.
The White parts are definitively actual light, but Necrozma clearly still has physical matter in it.
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And still has Lunalas body, who IS intangible. We're blatently ignoring that and focusing soley on type, which is the issue. And why I keep brinignig up Kyurem as an example to debunk this.
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I mean, ignoring the fact that Necrozma isn't Ghost-Type and thus, Lunala not being a major part of his body. Especially since Solgaleo and Lunala Ultra-Necrozma are exactly the same
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But why wouldn't Lunala be a major part when using her? Necro literally can't become Ultra without her in terms of Ultra Moon.
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You're ignoring the mechanics that show the fact that Necrozma doesn't have intangibility as a part of being ghost type/having Lunala's body. Necrozma can be intangible, but it seems like it has to consciously do it— whereas ghost types have a passive intangibility that they can willingly turn off, and isn't immune to elemental contact. Plus Saikou's argument, and between Kyurem and Ultra Necro, Kyurem doesn't keep the resistances and weaknesses of his two parts, just as Necrozma doesn't have access to intangibility via typing, not by light dispersal. Both of them gain moves and offensive abilities, but not typing, and therefore, not the physiological advantages awarded to beings of those types.
You're doing the same as J-man, deliberately ignoring the game mechanics that go against your claim, in favor of an idea that doesn't actually work. Sure, Kyurem can have the fire and electric abilities of either or, but it doesn't have the physiological advantages or weaknesses of the others. This is evidenced by type advantages being different. Not only that, but the difference between Necro and Kyu-Chan is that Ultra Necro is a monster that has transformed further beyond, giving him a new typing that comes from a new physiology.
He can have intangibility, but it has to be active, like a Logia, and has nothing to do with Lunala being a part of him. That same Necrozma can also have traits from both.
You're doing the same as J-man, deliberately ignoring the game mechanics that go against your claim, in favor of an idea that doesn't actually work. Sure, Kyurem can have the fire and electric abilities of either or, but it doesn't have the physiological advantages or weaknesses of the others. This is evidenced by type advantages being different. Not only that, but the difference between Necro and Kyu-Chan is that Ultra Necro is a monster that has transformed further beyond, giving him a new typing that comes from a new physiology.
He can have intangibility, but it has to be active, like a Logia, and has nothing to do with Lunala being a part of him. That same Necrozma can also have traits from both.
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Except the first part isn't even true. Because unlike Kyurem who gains the moves/abilities, Necrozma does gain Lunalas stuff when he becomes Dusk form, which is explicitly needed to become Ultra. The moves, the typing, the body, everything Lunala has is what Necrozma gets when absorbing her as Dusk and we're ignoring this solely based on types changing. That alone suddenly can't dismiss this. Not even Kyurem keeps the typing and we accept him having Reshiram/Zekroms body via fusion. As a matter of fact, typing going against pure physiology in pokemon happens quite a lot. Decidueye is still a bird despite being a grass-ghost. Charizard looks like a dragon and without mega-evo its fire-flying. Serperiors a snake and its a grass type. Heck, Snuball and Xerneas are deers and dogs and somehow that yields fairy type? And I shouldnt even have to call out Alolan Exeggutor being DRAGON. The list goes on with typing contradicting physiologies, so we can't suddenly start with Necrozma here.
Ghost types turining their intangibility on and off at will would be active, not passive. And unlike J-Man, im dismissing mechanics that explicity go against the primary ones and even then theres flaws. Gastly wouldnt be stupid enough to ask Pikachu to tag it in a game of Chase if it couldnt actively become tangible. Same thing with Gengar, an evolution and like Cal said it can even mean pokemon can hit intangibles.
Ghost types turining their intangibility on and off at will would be active, not passive. And unlike J-Man, im dismissing mechanics that explicity go against the primary ones and even then theres flaws. Gastly wouldnt be stupid enough to ask Pikachu to tag it in a game of Chase if it couldnt actively become tangible. Same thing with Gengar, an evolution and like Cal said it can even mean pokemon can hit intangibles.
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But Dusk form isn't the same as Ultra, is it? Dusk form or Dawn form significantly changes upon transformation into Ultra. Necrozma does gain "The moves, the typing, the body, everything Lunala has... ...when absorbing her as Dusk." Dusk form isn't Ultra form though. It doesn't have the same typing, nor the exact same body as Lunala, because said body was altered, regardless of whether or not the physiological make up is consistently a factor or not in the grand scheme of things.
However, I would argue the opposite for Snubble and Xerneas, saying that fairy is a part of their biology... Because it's a fictional creature that apparently has some kind of trait that gives it the traits of whatever fairy types are recognized as. The same way that Charmander's physiology makes him a fire type, something inside of him is what determines his typing. The typing, therefore, indicates that, while it might not be obvious or anything, the physiology of certain monsters is correlated with it. Because of this, we can say that it's true that Kyurem has the physiology necessary to consider it an ice type while having traits and the DNA of either dragon. Clearly it's not enough to change whatever makes it an ice type. Unless you're trying to say that Kyurem B/W isn't an ice type.
However, I would argue the opposite for Snubble and Xerneas, saying that fairy is a part of their biology... Because it's a fictional creature that apparently has some kind of trait that gives it the traits of whatever fairy types are recognized as. The same way that Charmander's physiology makes him a fire type, something inside of him is what determines his typing. The typing, therefore, indicates that, while it might not be obvious or anything, the physiology of certain monsters is correlated with it. Because of this, we can say that it's true that Kyurem has the physiology necessary to consider it an ice type while having traits and the DNA of either dragon. Clearly it's not enough to change whatever makes it an ice type. Unless you're trying to say that Kyurem B/W isn't an ice type.
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Ultra Necrozma doesn't have the properties of a Ghost- type. End of story. He does however, BFR to another non pocket universe to be done with it.
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And that's the part that makes 0 sense. There's absolutely no evidence that shows Necro changed bodies, in the link I posted Ultra Necro still had Lunalas body as the body to make up the Ultra Necrozmw form at all, provided by the fact that Lunala wasnt freed until Necrozma dispersed. So Necroa wasnt just taking Lunalas energy, he took Lunala herself as the host. And how would you change a spiritual entity anyway? If anything that implies Necro just selectively became tangible if he altered anything really.
I can understand the fictional answer but we can't use that as an answer to absolutely everything that doesnt come across making sense. Thats a cop-out. Charizard may be more understandable but I dont see anything about a dog or a deer that shouts fairy. Same thing with a tree being a DRAGON. And decidueye too. While yes fictional its a definite given types contradict physiologies in pokemon and if we're willing to look past them, we must do it for everyone, Necrozma included.
I can understand the fictional answer but we can't use that as an answer to absolutely everything that doesnt come across making sense. Thats a cop-out. Charizard may be more understandable but I dont see anything about a dog or a deer that shouts fairy. Same thing with a tree being a DRAGON. And decidueye too. While yes fictional its a definite given types contradict physiologies in pokemon and if we're willing to look past them, we must do it for everyone, Necrozma included.
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Then explain how literally everything contradicts your theory? As I've said before, Solgaleo-UN is 100% the same thing as Lunala-UN. Also I'd like to note that Necrozma simply adds itself unto Lunala normally. While Lunala is still intangible, Necrozma's body isn't.
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Saikou, those are alternate keys from 2 diff games. NecroMa wouldn't gain intangiblity when getting Solgaleo, but he would when using Lunala. Necrozma doesn't absorb both of them at once, just like Kyurem can't be both White and Black Kyurem at the same time.
Then what makes the body tangible then? Because UN doesnt obtain a new body, he uses the same one when going into Ultra.
Then what makes the body tangible then? Because UN doesnt obtain a new body, he uses the same one when going into Ultra.
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Yes Kyurem can, as every bit of lore implies that it can. Why they didn't add it to the games is beyond me, but still. The original dragon is canon.
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Where tho? I know he can become White Kyurem and Black Kyurem but I don't recall anything saying he can be both at once. Unless are you talking about the original fusion?
EDIT: Saw your comment a 2nd time. Nvm lol
EDIT: Saw your comment a 2nd time. Nvm lol
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So basically, we're giving Ultra Necro the abilities of both Dawn and Dusk at the same time in the same key instead of just using one of each whenever clarified? Correct me if wrong pls.
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