KHR Downgrades

[YungManzi]

The High 7-A and 7-C calcs were rendered false by calc group members; so this changes the justification for literally every profile in the verse, except Doctor Shamal. at least until we can get someone to re-do the calcs or propose other feats to calc.

The 7-A+ and 8-A calcs are still legit, so the new ratings with multipliers (Which are already accepted) will be centered around those. Along with me proposing a new multiplier which only slightly changes Tier 7 and up ratings.

New Tiers

1) All 7-C ratings are brought down to "At least 8-A" Scaling to Gokudera one-shotting Levi.

2) Tsuna's "7-C+, likely High 7-C" rating wouldn't change because it's based on backscaling rather than upscaling.

3) There is an additional Multiplier which isn't yet accepted, but stated On chapter 261 "The opening of the Hell Hole is, the multiplication of abilities. It's the multiplication of the box animal's special abilities and users' abilities." I would take it that 'multiplication' without a stated multiplier would just be taken as meaning 2x. This would bring people on or above the level of Zakuro's Hell Hole box being opened at 1.794 Gigatons. Which means, most of the High 7-A ratings wouldn't change, it'd just be lower in potency and have different justification.

Applying Multipliers

Option 1 If number 3 is accepted: 6-C (23 Gigatons is now 17.94 Gigatons; 34 Gigatons is now 28.7), High 6-C (238 Gigatons is now 200.928 Gigatons), Low 6-B (2.38 Teratons is now 2 Teratons), 6-B (14 Teratons is now 12), High 6-B (Kawahira is now 120 Teratons)


Option 2 If Number 3 isn't Accepted: 6-C (8.97 Gigatons, 14.35 gigatons), At least 6-C+, likely High 6-C for those slightly comparable to or slightly below Enma. Baseline High 6-C for those on the level of Enma or above (100.464 Gigatons), High 6-C+ to Low 6-B (1 Teraton), Low 6-B+ to baseline 6B for those far above Daemon Spade (6 Teratons), 6-B+ (Kawahira is far above 60 Teratons)


I think I covered all of the AP stuff here. If option 1 is accepted, I don't think the higher tier for any character changes at all. Only the justification for High 7-A.

 

[XDragnoir]

The multiplier is already accepted, it is the reason Hibari only has H7A and no 7A in his choice key.

Also, i still don't understand, the problem with the choice x-burner calc is the the multiplier or something else?

 

[YungManzi]

Oh It's already accepted?

GG then.

 

[YungManzi]

The main thing I believe Damage had is that it's not provable that 20 skyscrapers were destroyed.

Edit: You can estimate or guesstimate that number, but it's not provable because of smoke obscuring the feat.

 

[XDragnoir]

well, how many skyscrapers can you fit in 1,5 kms?

 

[YungManzi]

Bump

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Option 3 shouldn't be accepted since there isn't a stated multiplier.

 

[XDragnoir]

Option 3 shouldn't be accepted since there isn't a stated multiplier.

Not having a multiplier isn't a problem as long as it is said to multiply and is consistent within the verse, G4 in OP is the same thing, and there are probably others.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Not having a multiplier isn't a problem as long as it is said to multiply and is consistent within the verse, G4 in OP is the same thing, and there are probably others.

G4 has a stated multiplier, while this doesn't.

 

[XDragnoir]

Iirc Doffy only said it increased Luffy's strength several times, but it was a long time ago, maybe there was indeed a direct number, but i still don't see why this one wouldn't be valid when KHR uses multipliers consistently across the entire series.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That's an acceptable form of a multiplier since several means 3. Just saying something multiplying your power without being able to give.it a number value isn't the correct use.

 

[Xanxussama1010]

That's an acceptable form of a multiplier since several means 3. Just saying something multiplying your power without being able to give.it a number value isn't the correct use.

Actually, several aren't exact values as it means 3 or more. We just use 3 in here as it is a minimum value that can be possible for several.

Same case for multiply. If someone says "This creature can multiply itself", What do you think about possible value in here? 1.5x? 1.75x? Nope, It should be at least 2x, right? Since 2x is the minimum value that can be possible when we talk about multiply. So I don't see why we can't use 2x for the word "multiply" here.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Actually, several aren't exact values as it means 3 or more. We just use 3 in here as it is a minimum value that can be possible for several.

Same case for multiply. If someone says "This creature can multiply itself", What do you think about possible value in here? 1.5x? 1.75x? Nope, It should be at least 2x, right? Since 2x is the minimum value that can be possible when we talk about multiply. So I don't see why we can't use 2x for the word "multiply" here.

Several gives us a baseline number, which can be used while using “multiplication” does not give us the same thing.

 

[Xanxussama1010]

And I just said that the baseline number of multiply is 2. Can the virus multiply itself from 1 to 1.5? No, It should be at least 2. So 2 is the baseline number here.
It's just something that ordinary in real life.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

And I just said that the baseline number of multiply is 2. Can the virus multiply itself from 1 to 1.5? No, It should be at least 2. So 2 is the baseline number here.
It's just something that ordinary in real life.

That's a false equivalency. Without a stated multiplier, this can't be used.

 

[XDragnoir]

Mehhhh

Anyway, not like a huge downgrade.

 

[YungManzi]

Mehhhh

Anyway, not like a huge downgrade.

Yeah, it's really not.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

A general "multiplies his power" is certainly less reliable than even a "several times" statement.

 

[XDragnoir]

I don't like One Piece's multipliers, doriki were never used after Enies Lobby, Asura is going to be removed, why G4 was accepted is a mystery to me, since multipliers need to be consistent in the entire verse, and not just a one time thing.

 

[YungManzi]

bump

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

So there is an issue with the 7-A+ calc. We have a standard mountain height we usually use for the wiki which is 609 m, also the perspective of the mountain and cloud don't seem to match up. Theres also the issue of calcing the height of the cloud as before I was told that's something that shouldn't be done. The last thing is, I'd suggest using higher quality scans.

 

[YungManzi]

Isn't the standard mountain height from when mountains aren't scalable.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Isn't the standard mountain height from when mountains aren't scalable.

I'm not really sure. Even if that is true, how the mountain size is being calced would be incorrect due to the perspective. If anything I'd suggest asking some more calc members to look at it.

 

[YungManzi]

bump

Need an Admin.

 

[YungManzi]

Bum[

 

[YungManzi]

bump

 

[YungManzi]

@Damage3245 @Celestial_Pegasus

Just to get some staff here.

 

[XDragnoir]

It does not work to non-staff afaik.

 

[YungManzi]

hmmm

 

[YukaSama4]

option 3 seems valid imo

 

[YukaSama4]

I don't think that @Wrath_Of_Itachi and Amano Akira believe sth can multiply by ×1 and call it as "increasing" lol

 

[YungManzi]

bump

 

[YungManzi]

bump.

 

[YukaSama4]

bump.

u should try to put a link in the message wall of staff members who has watched KHR. I used to do that with many previous CRTs

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I watched and read this series like what, half a decade or more ago, so when it comes to feats my memory is foggy.

Can't comment on the 7-A+ calc possibly being wrong since that's not my area of expertise.

Neutral on option 1 for the multipliers, personally multiplication of abilities could mean anything since no value is given, though yea i would assume it would mean at least 2, but it's an assumption, with several, you can say it's 3 cause several means 3 or more.

Option 2 is fine.

 

[XDragnoir]

I think i can add a bit more information about why a 2x makes sense:

1- it is said to multiply;
2- box weapons "scale" to their user, so a shield would have H7C dura if used by a H7C, and 8A if used by a 8A, a Carnage Box is a special type of box able to release the same energy that would go to another weapon inside their own body;
3- a few arcs before them we have weaker characters getting a 4 times multiplier by concentrating DWFs in one attack (X Burner) and a further upgrade of 25% (or a 5x multiplier, if you want) by going all out (Hyper X Burner). Note, we are not trying to get a 4/5 multiplier, just to show multipliers are a thing in Reborn when using a similar method (releasing inside themselves and concentrating in a single spot).

If the 7A+ calc isn't valid anymore the multipliers would start at H7C, so only the top tiers would go back to tier 6

 

[YungManzi]

7A+ was already accepted.

"- box weapons "scale" to their user, so a shield would have H7C dura if used by a H7C, and 8A if used by a 8A, a Carnage Box is a special type of box able to release the same energy that would go to another weapon inside their own body;"

^This is a really good point that I didn't even think about. Box weapons naturally scale to the user, that's they can harm and defend themselves against other tier 7s using them. It's flat out stated that the amount of flames put into the box also influences how strong the box weapon is. So, if Carnage are like any other boxes, they would naturally scale to the user; and since carnage box makes the user themselves a box weapon it should be:

Original Power + Original Power.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The 7-A+ calc isn't correct as I stated above.

 

[YungManzi]

We should get calc group members here then; because as someone who's not into calcs (Always been terrible at math), I don't really understand the points you proposed against it.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

We should get calc group members here then; because as someone who's not into calcs (Always been terrible at math), I don't really understand the points you proposed against it.

That's a good idea. Though, it's not the math I had an issue with since I'm also terrible at it, it's the px scaling and assumption that I have an issue with.