Kenshiro Vs Zeref

[LordAizenSama]

Strongest forms, Speed Equalised, Standard Battle Assumptions.

Who wins and why

Kenshiro:Lost count

Zeref:Lost Count

Inconclusive:Lost Count

 

[Thebluedash]

I bet some FOTNS fan will totally whole a grudge man, for this dude. But Zeref wins pretty easily to be honest.

 

[Thebluedash]

Zeref have death hax, time stop, do I need to say more?

 

[KuuIchigo]

Zeref for reason above.

 

[RoyGundam]

Zeref via greater staying power.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Zeref via death magic and time stop.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Won't survive against Museo tensei,Ken has the advantage in every aspect(now that speed is equal.) and the only saving grace is his time manipulation but I don't know if zeroed could survive complete erasure of his existence.

Let's hypothetically assume he could, than the fight is inconclusive basically, only if Zeref regen from existence erasure.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I agree with grudge

 

[RoyGundam]

Fight goes something like this :

Kenshiro : *touches Zeref* ... Omae wa mou shindeiru ...starts walking away ... Zeref's head explodes

... *Head reforms* ... Kenshiro : "WHAT THE **** ??"

Zeref : "GG No Re" *kills Kenshiro*

Kenshiro : *dies*

 

[KuuIchigo]

Too bad Ken doesn't start with that.

Zeref doesn't regenerate... he just reverse time.

 

[RoyGundam]

Head reforms in gruesome time-reverse

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Too bad Ken doesn't start with that.

Zeref doesn't regenerate... he just reverse time.

Doesn't start with that, doesn't mean he can't activate any time after that. His body naturally reacts to impending death by activating Museo tensei. Users who haven't mastered it can do it being unconscious. So he will be able to activate it any time he wants regardless if he doesn't start off with it.

 

[Promestein]

Zeref oneshots Ken with death magic, at which point Musou Tensei doesn't matter because he's already dead.

 

[KuuIchigo]

What Prom said.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Zeref oneshots Ken with death magic, at which point Musou Tensei doesn't matter because he's already dead.

Death magic can be avoided physically so it's not like he can't dodge prom(precog helps with dodging too.). Plus if he's in danger of dying he or his body will react by using Museo tensei.

 

[Promestein]

Kenshiro can't avoid it when time is stopped.

Also Musou Tensei won't help against death magic and how's it going to help against Zeref? He's not going to run in and fight him hand-to-hand, he's going to kill him from a distance immediately and then leave.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Hmm interesting I am changing my vote to inconclusive as well i agree with Grudge.

 

[Omega998]

Zeref for reason above

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Good luck dodging an attack that hits everywhere. There's a thing called an area of effect attack that shoots out from where Zeref is standing.

I can predict a tsunami is coming for me but it won't let me survive.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Good luck dodging an attack that hits everywhere. There's a thing called an area of effect attack that shoots out from where Zeref is standing.

I can predict a tsunami is coming for me but it won't let me survive.

If you remember zerefs death magic spread like a circular blade, what I mean is natsu and that one girl were able to avoid it by ducking the attack if you recall.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Kenshiro can't avoid it when time is stopped.

Also Musou Tensei won't help against death magic and how's it going to help against Zeref? He's not going to run in and fight him hand-to-hand, he's going to kill him from a distance immediately and then leave.

Zeref isn't going to start off with stopped time, and the sense of death from zerefs aura will have Ken activate Museo tensei for safety(since his intuition from past fights will lead him to that.) So I Ken enters Museo tensei, it's impossible for zeref to hit him at that point. But like I said if my second scenario is aaccruare rhan this fight is a stomp since neither could kill each other at this point.

 

[Promestein]

I'm sure Zeref's death magic doesn't care about intangibility in the slightest.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Is that why everything around him dies? If he chooses to it can affect everything. And again. Time stop combo. Youre asking for the best situation where Ken lands it all. What does he do once time stops? And again rewind regen.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I'm sure Zeref's death magic doesn't care about intangibility in the slightest.

It's a Magic that can be physically tangled with fire and absorbed by scales. Plus consider the scentario that he can dodge the attack itself.

Plus we have no idea if zeref can rewind time of his existence is erased either.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Also I should mention if zeref was anything like he was with natsu when he first used his power, he will let Kenshiro throw the first attack cus he would have no fear of dying due to rewinding of time. And if Ken were to use Museo tensei on him, he could end the fight there as well. It's a possibility.

 

[Omega998]

Ken activate Museo tensei Zeref reverse time(back to normal ken then zeref 1 shot him or zeref travel back went kes was baby or what ever). Btw zeref is master enchantment supass irene since he can turn irene back to human heven irene can't do that

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Apparently because musou tensei is complete nothingness and because it bypasses all laws of heaven and earth, it may be able to bypass the time hax, since bypassing all laws of heaven and earth would mean bypassing time as well. And since he does become nothingness, he could also become immune to death magic since he is nothingness itself or at least resist the effects.

 

[RoyGundam]

Apparently because musou tensei is complete nothingness and because it bypasses all laws of heaven and earth, it may be able to bypass the time hax, since bypassing all laws of heaven and earth would mean bypassing time as well. And since he does become nothingness, he could also become immune to death magic since he is nothingness itself or at least resist the effects.

^ Oh come on !!!

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Zeref for reasons above

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Here's why I believe Museo tensei will ignore the death magic, as the definition goes, Museo tensei allows a user to embody nothingness itself, all life itself comes from nothingness(FOTNS lore.) and from what is shown it cannot be affected by energy and physical attacks.

Now nothingness itself in The fist of the North Star verse itself is further shown more of what it's capable of in the prequel. When kasumi Kenshiro creates a pocket realm of nothingness itself where he states word for word " heaven and earth don't exist here we are all that is." And than further shows in this realm Neither individual could die no matter how many times killed(until they cross the barrier of death.)

What I'm basically getting at is, with what's shown about nothingness, and since Museo tensei is the embodiment of nothingness. It could ignore death magics affect.

If not,he could still dodge it like I said and what's been shown in the manga of fairy tail.

 

[Promestein]

"Apparently because musou tensei is complete nothingness and because it bypasses all laws of heaven and earth, it may be able to bypass the time hax, since bypassing all laws of heaven and earth would mean bypassing time as well. And since he does become nothingness, he could also become immune to death magic since he is nothingness itself or at least resist the effects."

That's a ridiculous amount of extrapolating based off a vague statement, though I'll accept that Musou Tensei may make it hard or impossible for Zeref to kill him with death magic.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok, if death magic works, I vote Zeref. If not, Kenshiro

 

[RoyGundam]

@Prom Standard argument of Kenshiro supporters. Spam all kinds of NLF on Musou Tensei, till their opponents just give up

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

"Apparently because musou tensei is complete nothingness and because it bypasses all laws of heaven and earth, it may be able to bypass the time hax, since bypassing all laws of heaven and earth would mean bypassing time as well. And since he does become nothingness, he could also become immune to death magic since he is nothingness itself or at least resist the effects."
That's a ridiculous amount of extrapolating based off a vague statement, though I'll accept that Musou Tensei may make it hard or impossible for Zeref to kill him with death magic.

Alright, but lets say that the hax will be hard to work with. It would at least make it really hard for zeref to completely affect him with the time hax and possibly even with the death hax based on the nature of the ability.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@Prom Standard argument of Kenshiro supporters. Spam all kinds of NLF on Musou Tensei, till their opponents just give up

You do realize prom is a supporter herself. Watch the way you speak to people m8, if you state NLF on this you would have tO state it for 100s of other characters with their OP ability. I'm just stating the facts I've compiled of Museo tensei and what's been shown. It has limits to you know, their just small.


Edit: to name of few op abilities with almost no limit or it's very small. Accelerators vectors,yhwachs almighty, Reinhards blessing, dies iraes Reinhardt IDK everything, saint seiyas IDK everything too is pretty op. The list goes on

 

[Promestein]

Alright, but lets say that the hax will be hard to work with. It would at least make it really hard for zeref to completely affect him with the time hax and possibly even with the death hax based on the nature of the ability.

Death magic? Yes, I'll accept that based on Zeref's showings.

I won't accept that for Time hax though. It's not substantiated by anything but some vague statements.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Yah time hax I won't accept either, it's too vague, not concrete enough.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I will say, time stop is something zeref isn't something he uses, and with his new form I doubt he would realize to use it since he practically thinks he's unkillable wih rewinding time, which is a possible advantage.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

So we can agree that death magic can be affected then

 

[Thebluedash]

Ok, if death magic works, I vote Zeref. If not, Kenshiro

Is your vote still Zeref?