• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
12,682
5,798

vs


Battle for strongest 5-C dude

SBA
Speed Equal
 
Last edited:
Unless Kenshiro auto Muso tensei just to SURVIVE, he will be time stopped at the beginning of the fight

Even then, it seems he just becomes "intangible" and Lucius can affect his soul which bypass a layer of resistance, stomp, but because Kenshiro is completely ****** by range and no resistance to Lucius hax at all

If Kenshiro is able to use Soryu tenra, his power null is not as good as Asta, Lucius still can use his powers, maybe it can work for being a different power null but I am not sure
 
Unless Kenshiro auto Muso tensei just to SURVIVE, he will be time stopped at the beginning of the fight

Even then, it seems he just becomes "intangible" and Lucius can affect his soul which bypass a layer of resistance, stomp, but because Kenshiro is completely ****** by range and no resistance to Lucius hax at all

If Kenshiro is able to use Soryu tenra, his power null is not as good as Asta, Lucius still can use his powers, maybe it can work for being a different power null but I am not sure
I agree with you but Lucius can't affect Ken's soul because he doesn't have a soul in the first place
 
so is this incon??
Lucius can easily time hax him for one day straight if soul manipulation does not work

Or he can crush Kenshiro to the ground with class Z gravity while Kenshiro is time stopped

The only problem is if Kenshiro automatically use intangibility even when he is out of range of his opponent, Lucius would instantly time stop him the moment the fight starts and Kenshiro has precog, but he is not in range to do anything so he has no knowledge of what he has to do
 
Lucius can easily time hax him for one day straight if soul manipulation does not work
Lucius can time hax but i don't think that will be very helpful when it comes to incapping because of MT
Or he can crush Kenshiro to the ground with class Z gravity while Kenshiro is time stopped
He can't do that because of MT
The only problem is if Kenshiro automatically use intangibility even when he is out of range of his opponent, Lucius would instantly time stop him the moment the fight starts and Kenshiro has precog,
yeah i'm not sure if Kenshiro automatically MT's even when he is out of range, we'll have to wait and see
but he is not in range to do anything so he has no knowledge of what he has to do
no knowledge?
"The characters know the direction their opponent(s) start in. Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent). It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge. Negative effects of the observation, such as those caused by Madness Manipulation Type 3, are assumed to not apply for this knowledge either. Aside from this, the characters have no knowledge of each other."

Also i saw this interesting thing on Ken's profile
"Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength)"
This might take care of the range issue
 
Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength
NLF, no one in his anime is using gravity powers, time powers and etc, if it were a martial art I would buy it, but is magic, something completely different


Lucius can time hax but i don't think that will be very helpful because of MT
Why? If he gets time stopped, he can't move nor think, without thinking, MT can't be activated
He can't do that because of MT
Read above
It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s)
Yes, to identify, but Lucius then just mana zone 4 KM away time magic, intantly without moving and Kenshiro is time stopped, Kenshiro sees him being stand still and then gg
 
NLF, no one in his anime is using gravity powers, time powers and etc
gravity stuff exist in the verse
, if it were a martial art I would buy it, but is magic, something completely different
Hokuto Ryuken is both martial art and magic though
Why? If he gets time stopped, he can't move nor think, without thinking, MT can't be activated
But MT is automatic
it can be activated even without thinking
(Musō Tensei is made of the nothingness which predates life, and allows the user to achieve a state of said nothingness. It’s also stated to be able to erase the user’s body from existence. MT activates automatically to protect the user from danger, even when the user is completely unconscious
Furthermore, an attack thrown while in MT is considered to be "impossible to predict" since it comes from a "blank mind" despite the fact that things like subconscious reflex is considered to be a fodder technique
Read above

Yes, to identify, but Lucius then just mana zone 4 KM away time magic, intantly without moving and Kenshiro is time stopped, Kenshiro sees him being stand still and then gg
If range really is an issue, Kenshiro has perception blitz
Kenshiro not having to think to use MT>Lucius using thought based time hax? not sure

thats why i think its incon
no one can do anything to each other
 
Then Inconclusive or Lucius just time hax which should stop him for 24 hours

I did not know MT was automatic nor the gravity staff, I am sorry

How is Hokuto Ryuken magic? Because then Lucius can power null
 
I did not know MT was automatic nor the gravity staff, I am sorry
tbh im not sure if MT is automatic or not anymore
it says on his profile that it is automatic but then someone told me MT just activates unconsciously which is just super duper fast
 
Lucius' gravity should still work on Kenshiro, Lucifero managed to destroy Dorothy's world of glamor which is made up of dreams that fit the description of non-existent physiology type 1 according to the Subjective reality page
 
Last edited:
If it's for the strongest for every tier, then Lucius takes this due to ken not having strong resistance to soul manip. Nothing in his profile seems to imply he lacks a soul too

Ken can only hope to win is in a speed equal scenario where MT ends activates before Timestop.

Problem with that is:
1/ That mean Ken can only at best beat in when speed is equal
2/ MT automatically activating =/= MT activating instantaneously. I don't see what implies that the whole body shift to nothingness would be faster than thought based time stop
 
If it's for the strongest for every tier, then Lucius takes this due to ken not having strong resistance to soul manip. Nothing in his profile seems to imply he lacks a soul too
Kenshiro has NEP type 1 aspect 1
"These are characters whose soul and/or astral body is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Soul Manipulation."
2/ MT automatically activating =/= MT activating instantaneously. I don't see what implies that the whole body shift to nothingness would be faster than thought based time stop
Because MT activates without thinking
 
Kenshiro has NEP type 1 aspect 1
"These are characters whose soul and/or astral body is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Soul Manipulation."

Because MT activates without thinking
It activates without thinking, but that still doesn't mean it's instantaneous. That's like saying Ultra Instinct should always be faster than any thought based hax because he doesn't think.

And NEP 1 doesn't help against time stop
 
Smh...

Is Kenshiro like immune to physical attacks or something... Why has nobody mentioned Lucius dismembering his body with his bare-hands while time is stopped.
 

If you can go to this page

He appears

Time stop, no asking, every single fight he does the same, in the war, against William, he starts with a time shield to protect himself from attacks because William was the first to attack him, knowing fully he could defend himself easily

Right now in the manga he can't do that because Yuno is doing a massive spell to protect everyone in the country from his time stop, otherwise he would just time stop everyone and win
 

HUH???

WHAT DOES HAVING A BLANK MIND HAVE TO DO WITH SEEING THE LITERAL FUTURE

"uhhh..MT activates even when the user is completely unconscious..." WHAT ABOUT WHEN THE USER IS STOPPED IN TIME?
 
I’m not sure what part you were reading on the page, but that is not the case?
(Resistance to Precognition, Clairvoyance and Information Analysis (Users of Hokuto Shinken can bend their fates as they choose, making it difficult to read their destinies and capabilities.)

I don’t know if it’s the same kind of precog but I don’t really wanna engage in semantics debate..

Lucifero can resist people who can change their destiny via his presence. Vanessa in black clover changes her fate and the fate of her allies, yet she knew that it wasn’t going to work on Lucifero if he paid attention to her. Lucius absorbed Lucifero so he gains his resistance. [1][2]
 
Last edited:
It's not like it changes anything anyway, he will still use time stop right off the bat without bothering to look into the future, like against Asta
 
No he cant because Lucius would just reverse time around Kenshiro and considering gravity effects MT time should also work and Lucius has passive gravity.
Gravity is not affecting MT unless it can affect the NEP it gives Ken. I understand the time hax though (I didn't even say Ken wins because of that alone lol)

I looked above too, and (from what I have gathered, please correct me because I do not know Black Clover), Dorothy's world just sounds like Creation/Summoning. I looked at the character's profile, there wasn't even a type listed so I am going off the description alone.

"(Dorothy is capable of creating and manifesting objects and entities that aren't real at all, and only "exist" in her imagination and dreams. She can create a replica of anyone she thinks of and they will act the way she sees them)"

On it's own (unless there's more context, please provide if there is), this just sounds like "Creation/Summoning: The user is capable of creating and manifesting objects and entities that aren't real at all, and only "exist" in the imagination and dreams of the user and/or other beings."

That said, Ken does not win. 😭
 
Last edited:
Gravity is not affecting MT unless it can affect the NEP it gives Ken. I understand the time hax though (I didn't even say Ken wins because of that alone lol)

I looked above too, and (from what I have gathered, please correct me because I do not know Black Clover), Dorothy's world just sounds like Creation/Summoning. I looked at the character's profile, there wasn't even a type listed so I am going off the description alone.

"(Dorothy is capable of creating and manifesting objects and entities that aren't real at all, and only "exist" in her imagination and dreams. She can create a replica of anyone she thinks of and they will act the way she sees them)"

On it's own (unless there's more context, please provide if there is), this just sounds like "Creation/Summoning: The user is capable of creating and manifesting objects and entities that aren't real at all, and only "exist" in the imagination and dreams of the user and/or other beings."

That said, Ken does not win. 😭
Gravity has worked on MT before in the series LMAO.
 
Back
Top