Kenshiro vs Doflamingo

[Grudgeman1706]

First Kenshiro is actually getting an upgrade that will place him island level which is above doffys own AP

Second I'm sorry bro but he cannot replace his skeleton with string in fact he won't be able to even use his hands when Kenshiro either blows up his fingers with "five finger death explosion" or his Kazan shoto "see scan below". Also given the fact Kenshiro is much faster than doffy he will be able to dodge doffys threads including "ever white". Once Kenshiro sees doffys strings comes from his hands and legs he will destroy those crippling doffy and dealing the final blow

Kenshiro use a move which phases through someone's body and destroys their arms completely. I think he used Museo tensei but I digress

 

[Grudgeman1706]

If you read the next panel not even Kaioh a dude who's healing factor can repair a broken leg in less than a second could repair his arms since Kenshiro destroyed the bones and muscles in his arms

 

[CinCameron20]

what is getting Kenshiro upgraded to Island? If I see that and it is accepted, Kenshiro wins with relative low~mid difficulty.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Okay then we hault are debate till then.do you want to see the calc it's on AMMs wall

 

[CinCameron20]

to be honest, if the speed, AP/dura, etc get upgraded, I think this would be considered a stomp thread. Doflamingo would not be able to stand a chance against someone with a tier higher durability than his AP who uses hax that ignore durability and has mhs+ or potentially higher speed.

If it's just the island thing, sure, Kenshiro wins and the fight is still within reason imo, but including speed et al, it may become a stompy thread.

I'm already trying to remove the only defeat on Doflamingo's page, but this fight seems to be a lost cause and I'll admit it. Kenshiro wins if the Island feat is accepted, but keep in mind that I'll shout "STOMP, STOMP" if other things are upgraded.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

to be honest, if the speed, AP/dura, etc get upgraded, I think this would be considered a stomp thread. Doflamingo would not be able to stand a chance against someone with a tier higher durability than his AP who uses hax that ignore durability and has mhs+ or potentially higher speed.

If it's just the island thing, sure, Kenshiro wins and the fight is still within reason imo, but including speed et al, it may become a stompy thread.

I'm already trying to remove the only defeat on Doflamingo's page, but this fight seems to be a lost cause and I'll admit it. Kenshiro wins if the Island feat is accepted, but keep in mind that I'll shout "STOMP, STOMP" if other things are upgraded.

Okay

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Bump

 

[Alakabamm]

Hmm? If we are doing verse equalization, then Doffy can hit intangible beings with Haki.

Also, Ken doesn't go all out immediately usually whereas even a probing attack from Doflamingo will kill him. Hence, this becomes a problem since they aren't bloodlusted.

So I'd say Doflamingo.

 

[LordAizenSama]

One Piece intangibility isn't your conventional intangibility, They just become that element.They can still be interacted with especially with other elements. I think that it's a pretty big NLF to say he could hit intangibles via verse equalisation.

 

[Alakabamm]

If it's just a phasing intangibility and not dimensional hax I don't think it is NLF at all.

 

[LordAizenSama]

One piece characters dont phase through anything, their body is just dispersed. You can shoot a cannonball through their head and distort their body. I'm pretty sure Kenshiro's Intangibility is not like that hence NLF

 

[Alakabamm]

Kenshiro's body is exactly like that. That is exactly what his power does, disperse his atoms.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Ah ok, In that case I guess that's a reasonable argument.

 

[CinCameron20]

I'm literally finding it hard to find any actual description on Muso Tensei, but if what Alakabamm says is accurate about verse equalization and it working on Kenshiro's intangibility... One-shot for Doflamingo lel (incoming Island level Kenshiro) -- NEVERMIND D:!

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I'm literally finding it hard to find any actual description on Muso Tensei, but if what Alakabamm says is accurate about verse equalization and it working on Kenshiro's intangibility... One-shot for Doflamingo lel (incoming Island level Kenshiro) -- NEVERMIND D:!

Cin if you wanted a description for it why did you not ask I have them here. Also one piece intangibly is completely different from Kens intangibilty, Kens is a more complete intangibility , and one piece is like what Aizen said and only turns their body into an element and just destort,while Kens just phases in out of existences,both immune to physical and energy attacks

Museo tensei descriptio


Museo tensei other description.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Also ALakabamm a normal Ken still kills if he finds the opponent evil, and if he sees doffy he will go for the kill and just one hit would be enough

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Doffy stomps. Kenshiro does have moves that could kill him, but awakening, string clones, better range, etc. spell victory in Doffy's favor.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Doffy stomps. Kenshiro does have moves that could kill him, but awakening, string clones, better range, etc. spell victory in Doffy's favor.

Doffy does have better range however Kenshiro has too much hax for doffy, and is the faster fighter. Also Kenshiros hokuto Shinken and Museo tensei will leave doffy with nothing to defend with and I say that spells victory for ken. Also Museo tensei gives him his own clones. Well not exact clones but the fallen rivals he has become one with.

 

[Alakabamm]

Doffy does have better range however Kenshiro has too much hax for doffy, and is the faster fighter. Also Kenshiros hokuto Shinken and Museo tensei will leave doffy with nothing to defend with and I say that spells victory for ken. Also Museo tensei gives him his own clones.

He has his strings for fodder and can live a hit to the chest, because he can repair his internal organs. Also, he is only faster if he goes all out, which I doubt he would from the start.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Doffy does have better range however Kenshiro has too much hax for doffy, and is the faster fighter. Also Kenshiros hokuto Shinken and Museo tensei will leave doffy with nothing to defend with and I say that spells victory for ken. Also Museo tensei gives him his own clones. Well not exact clones but the fallen rivals he has become one with.

Doffy was capable of countering Law who is known for hax. Doffy's profile is AT LEAST HIGH 7-A. Likely higher. Doffy also can stitch wounds together. He isn't careless and is quite a tactician. He also has observation haki. That and the reasons I listed before pretty much spells victory in Doffy's favor.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

But ALakabamm Ken could also heal his organs and has a fighting Aura that's always protecting him and even kills of you get to close. Also Kens other techniques like gento ko Ken and Nanto sei Ken will slice through doffy strings since their slashes cut on the cellular level. And what's stopping Ken from killing doffy after one touch it's in his normal nature to do that. Heres what's gunna happen to doffy http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493384/FistoftheNorthStar2158752.jpg http://pic2.taadd.com/comics/pic4/46/16238/493384/FistoftheNorthStar2159593.jpg

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

But ALakabamm Ken could also heal his organs and has a fighting Aura that's always protecting him and even kills of you get to close. Also Kens other techniques like gento ko Ken and Nanto sei Ken will slice through doffy strings since their slashes cut on the cellular level. And what's stopping Ken from killing doffy after one touch it's in his normal nature to do that

Since when does Kenshiro ever immediately resort to that while fighting a random guy he has no knowledge of. He is more susceptible to Doffy's attacks than Doffy is to his.

 

[Alakabamm]

Doffy's strings are fatal to Ken in one hit, the magnitude of AP/durability difference is gigantic, at least a millionfold if not more.

They won't just pierce Ken if they connect, they will splatter him.

 

[Cropfist]

Doflamingo for reasons above.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Also, Kenshiro's basic moves require him to hit pressure points which can be negated and countered quite easily due to haki and the Ito ito no mi. Doffy can also use observation haki to memorize the pressure points hit and reverse it.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Since when does Kenshiro ever immediately resort to that while fighting a random guy he has no knowledge of. He is more susceptible to Doffy's attacks than Doffy is to his.

Ken always does that he doesn't care who his opponent is. You have clearly never seen the show or haven't seen it in a while he always goes for the kill he's a master assassin and once he sense doffy dark and malicious aura and personality he won't hesitate for the kill. Doffy won't memorize the pressure points, observation Haki doesn't allow you to memorize people techniques, it's just a precognition. Also pressure points aren't easily reverseable in fact most are irreversible doffy hasent dealt with this kind of attack and won't be able to do anything once the pressure point is in place.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Doffy's strings are fatal to Ken in one hit, the magnitude of AP/durability difference is gigantic, at least a millionfold if not more.

They won't just pierce Ken if they connect, they will splatter him.

I'll admit doffys AP is quite large and so is his Durability. But most of his moves are known to bypass Durabilty. And isn't his AP come from his birdcage. Again his personality is set to kill,while doffy is more sadistic and rather likes to torture victims. If Ken gets close enough to doffy it's over one strike is all that is needed to kill, and doffy has no counter for Museo tensei.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Since when does Kenshiro ever immediately resort to that while fighting a random guy he has no knowledge of. He is more susceptible to Doffy's attacks than Doffy is to his.

Ken always does that he doesn't care who his opponent is. You have clearly never seen the show or haven't seen it in a while he always goes for the kill he's a master assassin and once he sense doffy dark and malicious aura and personality he won't hesitate for the kill. Doffy won't memorize the pressure points, observation Haki doesn't allow you to memorize people techniques, it's just a precognition. Also pressure points aren't easily reverseable in fact most are irreversible doffy hasent dealt with this kind of attack and won't be able to do anything once the pressure point is in place.

Actually, I've seen the show AND read the manga. If some random person attacks him, he kills them with a casual pressure point attack. He won't immediately use some of his stronger moves. He'd probably underestimate Doffy thinking he was a typical thug.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

He would not underestimate doffy in fact he will know he's strong and put his guard up, his intelligence and senses will know he is a threat a major one and will observe how doffy fight. If you watched the show then you will know Ken always observes his opponent and watched how they fight and if the opponent is a threat he won't he's intimate to kill when given the chance. What's doffy gunna do when his pressure points are hit and or Ken use Museo tensei and ends the fight.m Haki won't do anything to stop Kens pressure point it doesn't work that way and doffys itto itto no mi can't sew wounds that involve his whole body destroyed and or Skeleton blown up from the inside.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Btw, I meant when does he ever immediately resort to Nanto sei ken or gento ko ken immediately. He would if he knew what Doffy could do but here he doesn't. Even if he did...observation haki or heal himself with strings.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Lol you act as though he's always prepped for an encounter which he isn't. There were many times he had to fight opponents he had no knowledge of. Plenty of times he was caught off guard as well. Also, I was under the impression that this was a random encounter. And a pressure point attack won't do jack if it is blocked with armament haki. MT won't be used immediately and even if it was Doffy could react and counter it. Also armament bypasses intangibility.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Yes Ken mainly uses hokuto but he doesn't hesitate to use Nanto sei Ken or gento when he needs too. Like his fight with shuu he used Nanto kokaku Ken to fight shuu. The point is when he sees doffy use string he will know Nanto would be the style to use to cut the string, or gento if Nanto can't cut through.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Yes Ken mainly uses hokuto but he doesn't hesitate to use Nanto sei Ken or gento when he needs too. Like his fight with shuu he used Nanto kokaku Ken to fight shuu. The point is when he sees doffy use string he will know Nanto would be the style to use to cut the string, or gento if Nanto can't cut through.

Even you just wrote "... when he needs to." That was what I meant. He would start off using his Hokuto Shin Ken style which would lead to him losing. Doffy is FAR to fast to be seen and reacted to. If Kenshiro attacks with Hokuto then Doffy would either use Armament Haki to block it or use Observation to dodge. Afterwards, he surprises Kenshiro with a string attack. Keep in mind Kenshiro hasn't faced a DF user before and will assume that it is normal string. Doffy has TOO many other ways to put Ken down.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

You can say the same thing for ken, who literally has over a thousand ways to kill doffy, and again Ken isn't stupid and doesn't Rush head on opponents. Ken will observe doffys fighting style and ability and ultilize counters for them and then kill him. Also Ken also has literally thousands of other ways to kill doffy too, also Ken is way faster than doffy and doffy will end up getting blitz himself. Ken at less than base form was able to casually stop a MHS,he did that effortlessly and we still don't know how much faster he can go (a lot of his AP and speed class are on hold) when the said when he needs to i didn't mean he only starts with hokuto Shinken.he observes how his opponent fights and then after quickly AnaLying his technique and style he will use the necessary attacks to attack doffy with, and if doffy tries to block he will have his arm destroyed,. Also while Ken hasnt dealt with someone with doffys abilities he has fought people like Souther (who has the same God complex,arrogant personality like doffy) so he will know how doffy acts and take advantage of that. And does doffy ever go for the kill, he didn't kill sanji immediately, law immediately, he'll he took his time waiting for Luffy to power up to gear fourth and rambled on with him. Doffy is sadisitc and rather torture his opponent then kill them immediately, his hubris will be his downfall cause Ken doesn't mess around and will use any opportunity to kill doffy.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Lol you act as though he's always prepped for an encounter which he isn't. There were many times he had to fight opponents he had no knowledge of. Plenty of times he was caught off guard as well. Also, I was under the impression that this was a random encounter. And a pressure point attack won't do jack if it is blocked with armament haki. MT won't be used immediately and even if it was Doffy could react and counter it. Also armament bypasses intangibility.

Lol did you say he will counter MT, that's funny cause Arnament isn't anything special it hits logia users who's intangibilty is based around elements and merely distorts their bodies form, from normal physical attacks.meanwhile MY is true in tangibility and is fully immune to physical and energy attacks and if Doffy tries to hit him whole in Mt he will have his arm or anything he touched him with erased from existance. Read this

Museo tensei descriptio

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Kenshiro's body is exactly like that. That is exactly what his power does, disperse his atoms.

As in dispersing his opponents atoms or his own? If it's the latter I don't think that's the case because Muso Tensei is stated to remove the user from existance which is quite different from how you're depicting it.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

What would it be

 

[Grudgeman1706]

As in dispersing his opponents atoms or his own? If it's the latter I don't think that's the case because Muso Tensei is stated to remove the user from existance which is quite different from how you're depicting it.

I talked about this and thought it was void manipulation because of the description and a couple thins Ken said, but everyone rejected it and said it sounds more like atom manipulation.

 

[Alakabamm]

He can "pass" through matter right? That's just him scattering his atoms.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Don't forget he also erases the person he's fightings atoms or existance? Whichever it is