Kenshiro vs Doflamingo

[Huesito88]

Doesn't ken also have ways to put doffy down

 

[Grudgeman1706]

He does

 

[Huesito88]

Then it should be inconclusive if both have the same number of ways to put each other down for good becuase it would come down to who uses this first before the other.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Perhaps, personally I think Ken has way more moves to put down doffy with, doffy only has his string, while Ken has multiple styles each one deadly enough to kill and has over thousands of ways to end doffys life. Unlike doffy Ken won't toy with doffy and will kill him with whatever he's got

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Lol did you say he will counter MT, that's funny cause Arnament isn't anything special it hits logia users who's intangibilty is based around elements and merely distorts their bodies form, from normal physical attacks.meanwhile MY is true in tangibility and is fully immune to physical and energy attacks and if Doffy tries to hit him whole in Mt he will have his arm or anything he touched him with erased from existance. Read this

Museo tensei descriptio

I know what MT is. Like I said, I've read and watched Hokuto no Ken. It can be countered by simply avoiding Kenshiro or using parasite on someone Kenshiro cares about and throwing them at Kenshiro. Doffy almost always goes for the kill. He was going to kill Kyros. He twitched his finger and beheaded Croc to show he could. He was trying to kill Law. He was trying to kill Luffy when G4 ran out.

 

[Huesito88]

So who is more likely to kill before they other can

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Then it should be inconclusive if both have the same number of ways to put each other down for good becuase it would come down to who uses this first before the other.

Doffy would win more times than not. He has better dc and durability. They have similar speed in base. Doffy has better range and with Awakening he isn't being touched by Kenshiro. MT and NS are Kenshiro's best bet but he wouldn't use it immediately in character, while in character, Doffy managed to fool Kyros, Luffy, and his subordinates into thinking that he had just been beheaded. That counts for both his speed and tactics. Don't forget that he also was using Birdcage the entire fight with Luffy. So he was trying to do two things at once. The strings can't be perceived by eyesight. Although I believe Kenshiro would still sense its presence, the reason I bring that up is because if Doffy is tactical enough with his strings( which he is) he would trick Kenshiro and kill him.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

What? It can't be countered and where would he get someone Kenshiro cares about everyone he loved is dead. And two vs fights don't bring outside help. Your not helping your argument at all.

Also keyword "almost" as in his sadisitc and arrogant personality makes him want to torture his victim. When he gets close to Ken, boom he strikes one pressure point or goes My and phases his head out of existence or atoms destroyed whichever the point is in the long run Kenshiro wins albeit high difficulty

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

What? It can't be countered and where would he get someone Kenshiro cares about everyone he loved is dead. And two vs fights don't bring outside help. Your not helping your argument at all.

Also keyword "almost" as in his sadisitc and arrogant personality makes him want to torture his victim. When he gets close to Ken, boom he strikes one pressure point or goes My and phases his head out of existence or atoms destroyed whichever the point is in the long run Kenshiro wins albeit high difficulty

You keep forgetting about haki! Armament or observation can counter HsK. Luffy was capable pre timeskip of foreseeing his own death via bifurcation by Mihawk. What's to say Doffy who's far more experienced than Luffy couldn't do the same? And Doffy is a ranged fighter. He wouldn't let Kenshiro get close to him. He can also fly. MT could possibly also be countered by Kings haki but that is a stretch. Regardless, Doffy wins this mid-high dif.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Doffy would win more times than not. He has better dc and durability. They have similar speed in base. Doffy has better range and with Awakening he isn't being touched by Kenshiro. MT and NS are Kenshiro's best bet but he wouldn't use it immediately in character, while in character, Doffy managed to fool Kyros, Luffy, and his subordinates into thinking that he had just been beheaded. That counts for both his speed and tactics. Don't forget that he also was using Birdcage the entire fight with Luffy. So he was trying to do two things at once. The strings can't be perceived by eyesight. Although I believe Kenshiro would still sense its presence, the reason I bring that up is because if Doffy is tactical enough with his strings( which he is) he would trick Kenshiro and kill him.

While you do make interesting points, I argue their tactical intelligence is the same because, if you remember from hyoh and kenshiros fight hyoh uses these invisible nanowire that are sharp enough to cut through flesh so he's actually used to string like attacks. Also Ken has an amazing keen senses, he can fight both deaf and blind and still walk and fight as if he could, because his opponent s all fight at Incredible speeds easily FTE While you could argue doffy can go awaken and defeat him, remeber Ken could also use the "dragon breath technique which Amps his speed and strength and Durabilty up to a level where doffy can't react and Kenshiro could just dodge and levitate if doffy decides to use awaken string. He does also have Hokuto ryuuken and could use the anryu tenha and that distorts a large amount of space around an area and will take doffys by a huge suprise and lift him in the air and spin him while distorting his vision cause it does that around which will leave him vulnerable to an attack from Ken.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

@sword first off Luffy Did not predict his death your taking things out of context, he just foresaw his arm getting caught off if he tried to jet bazzoka mihawk.observation Haki only helps with locating an opponents presence and dogging their attack if they can. However Kens hiro could just erase his presence and not let him predict anything see here https://i.gyazo.com/f41c9fd09731daf68acb060b9412bea5.png

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Doffy would win more times than not. He has better dc and durability. They have similar speed in base. Doffy has better range and with Awakening he isn't being touched by Kenshiro. MT and NS are Kenshiro's best bet but he wouldn't use it immediately in character, while in character, Doffy managed to fool Kyros, Luffy, and his subordinates into thinking that he had just been beheaded. That counts for both his speed and tactics. Don't forget that he also was using Birdcage the entire fight with Luffy. So he was trying to do two things at once. The strings can't be perceived by eyesight. Although I believe Kenshiro would still sense its presence, the reason I bring that up is because if Doffy is tactical enough with his strings( which he is) he would trick Kenshiro and kill him.

Whole you do make interesting points, I argue their tactical intelligence is the same because, if you remember from hyoh and kenshiros fight hyoh uses these invisible nanowire that are sharp enough to cut through flesh so he's actually used to string like attacks. While you argue doffy can go awaken, Ken could also use the "dragon breath technique which Amps his speed to a level where doffy can't react and Kenshiro could just dodge and levitate if doffy decides to use awaken string. He does also have hokuto ryuuken and that's distorts a large amount of space around an area and will take doffys by a huge suprise and lift him in the air and spin him while distorting his vision cause it does that around which will leave him vulnerable to an attack from Ken.

Yeah, I know that Kenshiro can amp his speed with DBT. However, Luffy pre Grand line reacted to someone who could move way faster than he could... without the use of observation haki. Imagine Doffy with haki. Again Doffy is a ranged fighter. He was able to control people on the other side of the island with birdcage. Another testament to my argument is that he managed to use parasite on many people on the island. How did he know where they all were? Observation haki. So not only will he never lose track of Ken, he can also always reach him.

 

[Huesito88]

Wait what ken can go from town level to island. Edit never mind

 

[Huesito88]

Problem is well he get the chance to use dragon breath

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Here's the definition to observation Haki https://i.gyazo.com/ad7170ceb16c2d94afbbd84adb31523f.png theirs people on his island he just chose random people on the island to control. How does parasite help, again Kenshiro has no one precious alive, and you can't use outside help in debates. His observation Haki won't work on someone who can erase his own percence completey.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Here's the definition to observation Haki https://i.gyazo.com/ad7170ceb16c2d94afbbd84adb31523f.png theirs people on his island he just chose random people on the island to control. How does parasite help, again Kenshiro has no one precious alive, and you can't use outside help in debates

I used parasite as an example of how he knows where you are regardless of how far and can reach you.

 

[Huesito88]

That is true

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Can you please not quote eachothers walls of text and refer to eachother via @ instead please?

On another note, observation Haki would be rendered useless due to Kenshiro erasing his presence. If you have any scans or anything which alludes that OH users can still detect lifeforms without a presence that would be perferable.

Armanant haki is going to screw over Kenshiro big time as the invisible armor will protect Doflamingo's body, therefore making Kenshiro's various techniques useless (outside of Muso Tensei)

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Wait what ken can go from town level to island. Edit never mind

No we have calc's that could put him at island level but no one has accepted it yet. His AP is very much unknown. All we know it's just much higher than he is right now.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Can you please not quote eachothers walls of text and refer to eachother via @ instead please?

On another note, observation Haki would be rendered useless due to Kenshiro erasing his presence. If you have any scans or anything which alludes that OH users can still detect lifeforms without a presence that would be perferable.

Armanant haki is going to screw over Kenshiro big time as the invisible armor will protect Doflamingo's body, therefore making Kenshiro's various techniques useless (outside of Muso Tensei)

Ken has fought someone with the same ability though? Remeber the Fang King he hardens his body to be stronger than steel the same way like Arnament Haki. His punches or pressure strikes still reached his body.

 

[Huesito88]

Hmm armanant Haki would make Duffy immune to most of ken moves due to his wall being equal to his durability.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

How would Kenshiro know that Doffy can sense his presence before it is too late. Awakening should give Doffy the edge depending on where they are fighting. Regardless, Doffy had Birdcage activated while he fought Luffy so we have no way of knowing whether he would have became MUCH stronger had he not have used birdcage. However, if Luffy was pre stretched to the max he wouldn't be able to go all out so there's that.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Here [[1]]

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Fang King isn't really comparable to Doffy

 

[Huesito88]

Doffy gets like a shield around his body he doesn't get more durable

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Fang King isn't really comparable to Doffy

I'm not comparing their strengths. I'm comforting fangs ability to harden his body like Arnament Haki. And ken beat him by hitting a pressure point that makes his whole body as soft as lard. And Kens punches even if your Durabilty is stronger than his can still reach his body. Just like it reached fangs hardened body. So no even with Arnament Ken will still bypass his durability

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Haki is more spiritual than physical.

Busoshoku Haki allows the user to use their spirit life force to create an essense of an invisible armor around themselves.[1] Similar to Tekkai, this Haki allows the user to defend against attacks that would otherwise cause them harm.

 

[Huesito88]

Again Doffy gets a sheild around his body that has no pressure points and is equal more or less to his durability it isn't Harding his skin or using his durability.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

He also managed to take a red hawk from Luffy without guarding so his durability is actually excluding his haki.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Sword can i propose something like cin proposed to me. Kenshiros profile is not finished and his AP and durability are very much not complete can we continue this debate after some of his AP scans get reviewed and calc'd. To make this fight more even on AP and durability

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Alright. One Piece still needs more feats anyway. Kenshiro's feats do need to be rescanned imo.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Again Doffy gets a sheild around his body that has no pressure points and is equal more or less to his durability it isn't Harding his skin or using his durability.

Arnament Haki doesn't give space between users it just gives them a hardened shield but strong attacks still can reach the body.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Alright. One Piece still needs more feats anyway. Kenshiro's feats do need to be rescanned imo.

Yah I agree let's stop for now

 

[Huesito88]

Hmm alright

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Doflamingo is now put at likely 6-C. Just throwing it out there.

 

[Ikusabe_Wataru]

Hmm? If we are doing verse equalization, then Doffy can hit intangible beings with Haki.
Also, Ken doesn't go all out immediately usually whereas even a probing attack from Doflamingo will kill him. Hence, this becomes a problem since they aren't bloodlusted.

So I'd say Doflamingo.

Ken has precog..

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Doflamingo one shots because Kenshiro would just tickle him with his Large Town level attacks. ROFL Island level >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Large Town level.

 

[Cropfist]

but ken's attacks negate durability

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

^Not all of them though.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

^Not all of them though.

Crops right, pretty much all of them negate Durabilty, all the important one and most lesser ones. Kens pressure strikes are not suppose to cause too much physical damage. But destroy you on the inside. He can still use Hokuto Shinken, gento ko Ken, and Museo tensei. Ken has actual precog, super stealth like techniques to get near doffy,mand his own ranged techniques to ignore Durabilty like tenha kassatsu,Raohs itten sho, an uppercut that hits pressure points even when your blocking the actual uppercut,

not to mention if Ken is in danger he'll go instantly into Museo tensei and doffy has no way of hitting Ken with it, and will effectively atomize him or can vaporize him on the cellular level with gento ko Ken.

Also theirs an import at factor of speed, Ken is way faster then doffy Ken has a lot going for him against doffy, doffys huge advantage in strength and dura still doesn't change the outcome like last time.