POWER VS SKILL: Kenshiro vs Mash Burnedead

[Silvervigilant]

Both at high 6-B
Speed equalized

Who wins?

The Hokuto Shinken Master: 0

The Man With Magic Muscles: 0

 

[Silvervigilant]

Bump

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I think it depends on who starts with what, given how Mash doesn’t have an answer to Muso Tensei otherwise from what I see (if Kenshiro even has it here, the keys are all messed up LOL) and Ken could just win that way, plus precognition which I don’t see a resistance for. Yeah I’m with Kenshiro here if he doesn’t stomp. (It’s funny because I think the title of Power and Skill can apply to both characters)

 

[Silvervigilant]

I think it depends on who starts with what, given how Mash doesn’t have an answer to Muso Tensei otherwise from what I see (if Kenshiro even has it here, the keys are all messed up LOL) and Ken could just win that way, plus precognition which I don’t see a resistance for. Yeah I’m with Kenshiro here if he doesn’t stomp. (It’s funny because I think the title of Power and Skill can apply to both characters)

Thanks for replying

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I think it depends on who starts with what, given how Mash doesn’t have an answer to Muso Tensei otherwise from what I see (if Kenshiro even has it here, the keys are all messed up LOL) and Ken could just win that way

From what I can recall and find from quick searching, he doesn't at beginning of series

Plus precognition which I don’t see a resistance for. Yeah I’m with Kenshiro here if he doesn’t stomp. (It’s funny because I think the title of Power and Skill can apply to both characters)

Yeah, the Mashle profiles are hilariously outdated. I'd help those guys out but I'm busy dealing with half a century worth out outdated content. Should be noted Mash has a pretty noticeable advantage in the fact that his High 6-B isn't actually his full power so he's still capable of increasing his speed and power alongside his rather absurd reactive evolution and accelerated developments. Don't got too much to say in general since for god know's what reason they decided to composite Kenshiro's abilities into one.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

From what I can recall and find from quick searching, he doesn't at beginning of series

Yeah, the Mashle profiles are hilariously outdated. I'd help those guys out but I'm busy dealing with half a century worth out outdated content. Should be noted Mash has a pretty noticeable advantage in the fact that his High 6-B isn't actually his full power so he's still capable of increasing his speed and power alongside his rather absurd reactive evolution and accelerated developments. Don't got too much to say in general since for god know's what reason they decided to composite Kenshiro's abilities into one.

Yeah, Ken doesn't have Muso Tensei at the beginning of the series, it's actually not even supposed to be composited like this so idek why I brought it up (Kenshiro's profile in terms of keys is really bad, desperate need of fixing LOL)

But either way, Ken does still have ways of ignoring durability and his own very good accelerated development, he can kind of adapt on the fly from what I remember lol. So both have chances at winning (at least to me)

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Yeah, Ken doesn't have Muso Tensei at the beginning of the series, it's actually not even supposed to be composited like this so idek why I brought it up (Kenshiro's profile in terms of keys is really bad, desperate need of fixing LOL)

But either way, Ken does still have ways of ignoring durability and his own very good accelerated development, he can kind of adapt on the fly from what I remember lol. So both have chances at winning (at least to me)

Yeah, I think I might actually give the edge to Mash since it's a pretty consistent point in the franchise that his body control is built different. Even on FOTNS levels of bs precision

Which could likely mess with Kenshiro's pressure points since Mash's superior LS and durability could mess up the pressure points since Kenshiro might not even be able to harm them as effectively as he normally would (Kenshiro is 308 Teratons at this key while if my math is right Mash upscales from 786 Teratons)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

What the hell, I got no indication this was a thing!!!!

Anyways, yeah, Mash's profile is outdated. Not mentioning his post training stuff, cause that should be a separate profile entirely, but here he should be 6-A due to massively uoscaling from his restricted peak, which could withstand Domina's Thirds. But since that's not the case, we'll stick with this.

It's important to know that Mash can sense impending doom through his beast-like senses, such as sensing that Innocent Zero could kill him at any moment. His muscles can also warn him of how powerful an opponent can be. Not to mention, going by his skill, once he sees an opponent's move, he can counter it. Along with that, he can amplify his stats plenty. With Big Bang Dash, he can blitz an opponent's perception who's relative to him, and Punch Squared allows him to throw out up to 65,536 punches before an opponent can counter.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah, I think I might actually give the edge to Mash since it's a pretty consistent point in the franchise that his body control is built different. Even on FOTNS levels of bs precision

Which could likely mess with Kenshiro's pressure points since Mash's superior LS and durability could mess up the pressure points since Kenshiro might not even be able to harm them as effectively as he normally would (Kenshiro is 308 Teratons at this key while if my math is right Mash upscales from 786 Teratons)

IIRC, Kenshiro's techniques work by sending his ki into the person's pressure points? I'm no FotNS consumer, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that's how it works, hopefully someone can correct me. I don't think Mash's level of body control can help in this case, because at this point of the story, he only has fine control over his muscles. Pressure points, on the other hand, are connected to the nervous system.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

IIRC, Kenshiro's techniques work by sending his ki into the person's pressure points? I'm no FotNS consumer, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that's how it works, hopefully someone can correct me. I don't think Mash's level of body control can help in this case, because at this point of the story, he only has fine control over his muscles. Pressure points, on the other hand, are connected to the nervous system.

They do function by sending ki into the pressure point, however they still need to get to the point in the first place. Characters with abnormal bodies types are capable of countering it such as Heart who was simply too fat to hit his, acting similarly to rubber and forcing Kenshiro to knock all the fat away before he could properly hit the needed pressure points. Mash's density should act as a similar type of defense as Kenshiro would effectively need to overwhelm Mash's sheer muscle strength in order to move any of the pressure points.

At least, that's what I can recall of early FOTNS.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Yeah, weakness page makes note of this

"Given the heavy reliance on pressure points, the Hokuto Shinken is significantly less effective against opponents with altered physiology"

While Mash obviously isn't altered enough to the point of making it a non-factor, his unusual muscle structure would cause Kenshiro's usual moves to be less effective than normal, at least initially

 

[AnAverageUsername]

So, under the pretense that Mash could resist these pressure point strikes due to his dense musculature, the biggest pain that he would encounter would be trying to get through Kenny's precognition. How long does it usually last, and can it help against blitz level amps?

Ah, man, if only Komoto could have included that master cane that can see a couple of seconds into the future and have Mash fight the wielder, would have helped for situations like this.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

So, under the pretense that Mash could resist these pressure point strikes due to his dense musculature, the biggest pain that he would encounter would be trying to get through Kenny's precognition. How long does it usually last, and can it help against blitz level amps?

Kenshiro's early precog seems to only predict 2 moves ahead of their opponents, however looking into this it seems Mash can counter a few of em.

Studying Mash's martial arts is kinda irrelevant, due to his adaptive nature and the fact Kenshiro needs to fight him for a period of time for it to work.

Reading subtle eye and muscle movements is Mash's bread and butter for countering, thanks to his instantaneous and explosive movements though I can see the eye tracking causing some issue.

Aura reading is useless as Mash can still surprise characters who sense it

So that leaves reading Mash's breathing after 2 moves and basically having a game of 'I knew that you knew that I knew' in his head where he predicts his opponent 2 moves ahead of him.

As for timeframes, should be constant as it's simply skill based, don't know if it can handle blitz level amps but I kinda doubt it can handle a high level of Punch Squared

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

So uh, how do we tell them that BOS Kenshiro might become Island level soon instead of Country level+

 

[AnAverageUsername]

So uh, how do we tell them that BOS Kenshiro might become Island level soon instead of Country level+

I, uh, guess he could fight Abyss or Abel?

 

[Silvervigilant]

Yeah, Ken doesn't have Muso Tensei at the beginning of the series, it's actually not even supposed to be composited like this so idek why I brought it up (Kenshiro's profile in terms of keys is really bad, desperate need of fixing LOL)

But either way, Ken does still have ways of ignoring durability and his own very good accelerated development, he can kind of adapt on the fly from what I remember lol. So both have chances at winning (at least to me)

Yeah i also believe that both have chances to win this fight.

 

[Silvervigilant]

They do function by sending ki into the pressure point, however they still need to get to the point in the first place. Characters with abnormal bodies types are capable of countering it such as Heart who was simply too fat to hit his, acting similarly to rubber and forcing Kenshiro to knock all the fat away before he could properly hit the needed pressure points. Mash's density should act as a similar type of defense as Kenshiro would effectively need to overwhelm Mash's sheer muscle strength in order to move any of the pressure points.

At least, that's what I can recall of early FOTNS.

You're right, about density tho, i have to mention that Ken was able to trigger Kiba Daioh's pressure points. Kiba could transform his flesh into steel. Still did not counter Hokuto. Granted that Mash's body is not exactly the same.

 

[Silvervigilant]

So uh, how do we tell them that BOS Kenshiro might become Island level soon instead of Country level+

Damn, every time i find a good opponent for Ken he change tier.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

You're right, about density tho, i have to mention that Ken was able to trigger Kiba Daioh's pressure points. Kiba could transform his flesh into steel. Still did not counter Hokuto. Granted that Mash's body is not exactly the same.

Tbf, Kenshiro did overpower the steel so the same line of logic still applies as Kenshiro didn't use his normal finger touches to hit the pressure points.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

UPM Mash is supposed to be 6-A to high 6-A, BoS Kenshiro might be downgraded to 6-C, the fight was doomed from the start, damn.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

UPM Mash is supposed to be 6-A to high 6-A, BoS Kenshiro might be downgraded to 6-C, the fight was doomed from the start, damn.

Honestly I might just start re-vamping Mashle profiles since the Lupin stuff keeps taking so long (Staff do not want to touch the most recent one).

Even if some things like statistics or translations aren't done, having them up to date with all powers and abilities is a good minimum to have

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Honestly I might just start re-vamping Mashle profiles since the Lupin stuff keeps taking so long (Staff do not want to touch the most recent one).

Even if some things like statistics or translations aren't done, having them up to date with all powers and abilities is a good minimum to have

I can help by giving out info on what needs to be updated, it's about all I can do with my computer being shit. The big profiles that need updates for their stats are Mash, Dot, and Lance anyways.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I can help by giving out info on what needs to be updated, it's about all I can do with my computer being shit. The big profiles that need updates for their stats are Mash, Dot, and Lance anyways.

Nah, if I do shit then I do it god damn right.

Here's an example of how I revise, characters are gonna get their proper sound files, images, and actually readable powers/ability sections

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Oh yeah, 10000% also gonna make actual profiles for characters

#JusticeForFinn

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Nah, if I do shit then I do it god damn right.

Here's an example of how I revise, characters are gonna get their proper sound files, images, and actually readable powers/ability sections

Damn, it's beautiful. The dedication is real. And I meant that the only profiles that need stat updates are those 3, others are updated in that regard. But, thank you for stepping up, it's very much appreciated.

Oh yeah, 10000% also gonna make actual profiles for characters

#JusticeForFinn

The magia lupus only have Abel and Abyss for profiles, the low tiers are barren

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Damn, it's beautiful. The dedication is real. And I meant that the only profiles that need stat updates are those 3, others are updated in that regard. But, thank you for stepping up, it's very much appreciated.

Fair enough then, I got work related Christmas parties to attend rn but once I'm avaliable I'll begin improving everything

The magia lupus only have Abel and Abyss for profiles, the low tiers are barren

TBF, most of those guys have little to work with individually..... a team profile however...

 

[Silvervigilant]

Tbf, Kenshiro did overpower the steel so the same line of logic still applies as Kenshiro didn't use his normal finger touches to hit the pressure points.

He did not overpower completely tho, if he did, he would have destroyed Kiba's face, those punches and elbows where aimed at Kiba's pressure points. And while Ken hit him hard, pressures points can be trigged just by a mere gentle touch.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Nah, if I do shit then I do it god damn right.

Here's an example of how I revise, characters are gonna get their proper sound files, images, and actually readable powers/ability sections

Very good job

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

He did not overpower completely tho, if he did, he would have destroyed Kiba's face, those punches and elbows where aimed at Kiba's pressure points. And while Ken hit him hard, pressures points can be trigged just by a mere gentle touch.

While that is true, he clearly dented and caused permanent damage to the steel. The damage itself was just worthless since Kiba can simply un-bend his metal body.

Which likely means Kenshiro needed to cause the dents to effect him in such a manner, as it's normally in character for Kenshiro to do simple jabs and call it a day while his opponent thinks their unharmed.

I'm not saying he can't similarly cause dents in Mash's skin, however due to him not having any signs of a difference it's not going to be a first move meaning.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Also, switching to Mash or stomp, because one hit from Mash is going to kill Ken because the difference between 6-C and High 6-B is insane (might be a stomp now honestly)

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Very good job

Thank you very much, the profiles are a lot of work which isn't helped by the fact that I struggle to even get 2 mods willing to approve things on it

 

[Silvervigilant]

While that is true, he clearly dented and caused permanent damage to the steel. The damage itself was just worthless since Kiba can simply un-bend his metal body.

Which likely means Kenshiro needed to cause the dents to effect him in such a manner, as it's normally in character for Kenshiro to do simple jabs and call it a day while his opponent thinks their unharmed.

I'm not saying he can't similarly cause dents in Mash's skin, however due to him not having any signs of a difference it's not going to be a first move meaning.

Yeah that or Ken just wanna to hit Kiba hard especially given how angry he was at him, I would like to mention that Ken has deal with physically unnatural humans before such as Devil Rebirth who was a genetically altered human, and Madara. But he also had problems with Souther who pressure points were all reversed and Mr Heart whose fat can absorb stuff.

Still i believe that Ken will have trouble with Mash's body but nothing out of the realm of what he already dealt with.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Also, switching to Mash or stomp, because one hit from Mash is going to kill Ken because the difference between 6-C and High 6-B is insane (might be a stomp now honestly)

Yeah now the difference is too much

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Still i believe that Ken will have trouble with Mash's body but nothing out of the realm of what he already dealt with.

Agreed, but that initial confusion is a major deciding factor. Though since Kenshiro is getting hard nerfed the argument is basically over

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Yeah, this should be closed. Plus Ken doesn’t even have (or doesn’t use) Nanto in the beginning so yeah.

Hear me out, Kenshiro VS Akuma next (let me cook)