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kamen rider discussion thread 3

Wait, I don't really get the problem.

Also, I'm just here because I'm wondering whether the part about Kuroto overworking himself to death should even be included in his stamina. Seems like it's more of a gag occurrence.
 
The problem is that Oma Zi-O has all the powers of every Rider, but he can't have Ghost's ghost physiology if Gemn's data physiology contradicts him.

Essentially, Oma Zi-O can't have immunity to soul manipulation via lacking a soul and be a ghost at the same time.

Ok so I had a chat with Wokistan and he says that it's ok to have both if Ghost is treated as not literally a soul.
 
Genm being data is "Dan Kuroto" power.

Oma Zi-O only have "Rider Power", not the power of the one who transforms.

Please do not mixed them up, or his profile will be a mess.

Same goes to Decade in your blog that he shouldn't have multiple personalities due to Imagin. He once transforms into Den-O and there are no Imagin at all. Oh and Fangire powers, he is not a fangire, how can he have that? And don't say that because Kiva's power, because he's not a half Fangire like Wataru.
 
ohma have a rider's personal power as well. one of the power listed in the statement from toei hero max were phillip's ability to browse the true gaia memory and takumi's power as an orphnoch, both of which aren't something derived from their respective rider power. on-screen event also had kenzaki's joker attribute being inserted into the blade ridewatch as well

this could mean one of two things. either ohma simply has the power that other riders possess due to the virtue of their unique physiology as a set of abilities without affecting his own physiology, or ohma possesses their unique trait as well (by virtue of ridewatch inheriting all their history and power) but he can render those traits dormant and just choose what to activate/use at his own leisure
 
It's just a PIS that wanted other Main Riders to lose their power for the sake of the plot.

Example, if he really got all of personal powers, the he would have Decade's acausality, but no he don't, and got erased in the final episode.
 
I'd say the erasure is more PIS than the personal attributes, considering that having all the personal attributes is more consistent than just one instance of Oma not having them.
 
No. Just, no.

The powers that does not appears in the story cannot be more consistent than an actual ending that Oma got erased.

We have a limit of wanking some character you know?
 
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sure. surely you know better than the actual producer of the show right?
 
I do not.

But I know that we do have this term.

Word of God: Often abbreviated as "WOG" or "WoG." Author, or editorial, statements about a certain franchise, and/or its characters. However, take note that if this heavily contradicts, rather than complements, reliable in-story statements or feats, we tend to disregard them.

We do not upgrade Alien X while we have the word of god all over the places.

We do not upgrade Cthulhu despite one of the creator said that Beyond Angle Space in the game is like in the Lovecraftian Novel.
 
and nothing really contradicts anything. you crying that the blade arc was done out of plot convenience so that toei can finally give kenzaki and hajime their happy ending wouldn't change the fact that it happened.

we have wog stating that ohma have them all. we have an on-screen event showcasing such thing happened. so far you've done nothing to refute that ohma have all the riders' power and traits other than crying that it's wank
 
Yes we have the WOG stating that Oma have them all.

Word of God: Often abbreviated as "WOG" or "WoG." Author, or editorial, statements about a certain franchise, and/or its characters. However, take note that if this heavily contradicts, rather than complements, reliable in-story statements or feats, we tend to disregard them.

You seems to be very agressive when it comes to Oma don't you?

I never refuse that Oma have all Rider's power (becasue it's really show us in the series). I just said that he doesn't have personal attributes.
 
and i've shown evidences as to why he has it. joker attribute got absorbed into the ridewatch. den-o as a rider is only accessible to a singluarity point, which is what ryotaro is, up until near the series' finale where that very trait is now also abdicated for the taros. momotaros post den-o ridewatch literally cannot transform to the point sougo had to summon a den-o from a past timeline for current momotaros to possess so he can fight the mass of imagins. and wog stating that ohma zi-o indeed possesses not only the power of a rider but also their individual traits (orphnoch and true gaia memory's respectively). what is this thing that contradict anything that you were talking about?

using the interaction between sougo and ohma isn't a valid point as specific to that case only, that's an exception rather than the rule. quite practically every instances wherein ohma was affected in the flow of causality was from an action that sougo himself took. neither sougo nor ohma was affected when an external force quite literally retconned his existence away from the timeline. never mind that sougo could get an acausality for the exact same reason as tsukasa did considering what happened and what he went through in the show

so far, you've done quite practically nothing to refute the argument that ohma zi-o do possess not only the power, but also the unique traits of every single rider there is as stated by shinichi shirakura. your counter-argument on this issue isn't even a strongly grounded one. repeating yourself by posting the same text without any more supporting argument won't make you any more correct
 
Ohma Zi-O does not possess the abilities that are completely alienated from the Riders powers specifically.

Genm's Data resets.

Decade's destroyer/dimensional powers.

Gaim's Golden Fruit.

Blade's Joker undead.

Etc.

Only the powers associated with the "Kamen Rider"

Not external stuff for the users themselves.
 
blade's joker attribute is something that's rather explicitly inserted into the ridewatch and we got to see it on-screen. momotaros was no longer a den-o after his ridewatches were made. shirakura's comment that i posted above quite explicitly meantioned agito's infinitely evolving potential due to the seed, takumi's status as orphnoch, and phillip's state of being the true gaia memory's avatar amongst other thing

in so far, none of the side that oppose ohma having all of them had provided actual evidences for why he wouldn't have it. substantiate your claim with supporting evidences, it has only been me who have provided evidences supporting my argument thus far

i couldn't care less about your personal conjecture when what i'm using in my argument is actual evidences from the show and/or wog by the producer himself
 
The thing is though. Even if the rade watch took away the joker undead powers. ZI-O was never shown using those powers whenever using the rider watch. heck none of the rider watchs have shown letting ZI-O using personal powers of the riders.

Which could mean that the rider watch just took away the joker powers do to the fact that it erases the events of that Rider's show. Making it so Blade was never a joker in the first place.
 
that's entirely beside the point. what was argued is whether ohma has the individual power of every rider not how often/whether he ever used it. we know based on all extant evidences so far that ohma zi-o possesses the power and history of every riders, which include something like blade's joker attribute or the taros' unique roles of being den-o, and takumi's orphnoch status and phillip's avatar of true gaia memory status according to the databook. whether ohma used it on the show or not is of no matter. arguing that someone didn't have something because they never use them when it's pointed out that they have it doesn't really work unless you actually prove it to be so. by that train of thought, zi-o doesn't even have rider armor barring from build, ex-aid, fourze, gaim, w, kuuga, ghost, wizard, and decade (alongside all of its derivation) simply because sougo never use the rest of his ridewatch on the show, ignoring the fact that sougo does indeed possess all 20 ridewatches. this is exactly that same case, just replace the ridewatches (the evidences) with the event from the show and wog, while the rider armor (the argument) is replaced with other riders' individual power

bob never using x, y, z is not necessarily equal to bob not having x, y, z. especially when all evidences point towards that bob does possess x, y, z. arguing for the contrary would shift the burden of proof unto you to substantiate your claim with actual evidences. which no one ever did so far.

in fact, this wiki actually have quite a few character who fall under the same category. some examples

rimuru tempest from regarding my reincarnation as a slime possess the power of all his subordinates, yet he barely if never actually use any one of them in the story but we still include them all because we know for a fact that rimuru does have them even though he barely uses any of it

reinhard heydrich from dies irae possess quite literally everything that his einherjar possess. skills, memories, experiences, even power. we barely see him utilizes any of those and we still include them on his page because that's something that he factually possess

yhwach from bleach possess all the power of sternritter due to how his soul partition work. someone who lacks something was given a piece of yhwach's own soul, and when they die yhwach would gain pretty much their everything. this made yhwach who were originally nothing more than a crippled baby to a fully functional being. we also never saw him use any of the schrift but we still include them because it's still something that yhwach would have

soul king also from bleach have organs that would later on become a being known as mimihagi, gerard, pernida. we still include the power of those 3 unto soul king's page because those 3 powers are something that the soul king would have regardless of his actual showing of utilizing such power because we factually know that he possesses them by virtue of those 3 being a part of his existence

and those are only a few examples from a series that i'm somewhat familiar about. i'm sure there's a plenty of other examples where such thing happens but you get my point

and your second paragraph also wouldn't work for narrative reasoning because by that point in the series, the timejackers already switch their strategy by not making another rider watches by stealing a riders' power in the past. the timejackers by that point had resort to making another rider watches in the present, hence why it was possible for both rider of the same existence to exist simultaneously.

your point that the joker attribute was something that retcon the event of blade is also moot for the same reason. the retcon of a rider show's event only happened within the first half of the series where the timejackers was still making their watches by stealing the power of past riders, it doesn't happen for the two parter where the creation of the watches were in the present. kenzaki's joker attribute getting inserted into his ridewatches didn't retcon the story/event of blade, that just signifies a finally happy ending for blade's story for both hajime and kenzaki. your entire second paragraph is practically nothing than your own conjecture

so, again, refute back with actual evidences. which none of you have provided so far
 
have any body read kamen rider own novel cause i read and found out some feat for kamen rider like agito evol to the point that he is equal to that of the lord of darkness and is immune to time manipulation

and in the S I C saga the battle between the survive dragonder and ouja 15 monster fusion mirror monster almost destroy the mirror world which is as big as a universe
 
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