Kaguya Ōtsutsuki Revision (Naruto)

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Also since the boruto anime is considered secondary canon, momoshiki has displayed Six Path jutsu. Same with Sasuke.

 

[Damage3245]

By anime are you including the fuller of her backstory?

I meant in the anime version of the manga scenes.

Also, to my knowledge Momoshiki hasn't displayed Six Paths jutsu.

@Omimi; you can call me ignorant all you like but it doesn't change my points.

 

[Omimi]

Kaguya has never explicitly used one of the Six Paths abilities in the manga or anime.

• she use pp and almighty push.

Kaguya has never been stated by any character to use a Six Paths ability. The databook does not state that using the Rinne Sharingan grants the Six Paths abilities.

• Kaguya has been stated by sasuke to have rinnegan and kishi said all rinagan user can use all 7 path.

There has been multiple circumstances where using a Six Paths ability would have benefited her, but it never crossed her mind.

• she use pp and almighty push.

The statement for the Rinnegan user = Six Paths abilities user does not apply to Kaguya, because she does not have the Rinnegan itself.

• it does cuz she has rinnegan sasuke said so

Other users of the Rinnegan (Momoshiki) have also never displayed Six Paths abilities.

• sasuke,madara and hagoromos rinnegan did not came from him its cam kaguyas Rinne Sharingan so its not same

Sasuke's statement doesn't indicate she can use any other Rinnegan ability; it is also questionable because the Infinite Tsukuyomi is not a pure Rinnegan technique in the first place.

• Sasuke's statement indicate she has Rinnegan and kishi said all rinagan user has all 7 path.
• Infinite Tsukuyomi is pure Rinnegan technique sasuke said so

done u prove nothing

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

In the anime he uses almighty push.

 

[AstralKing7]

@AstralKing7; the burden of proof is usually on the side making the claim.

In this case the claim being 'Kaguya used the Preta Path'.

I did mention a few reasons up above for it is likely she did not use the Preta Path. Those being (in brief):

Visual effect doesn't matter. The effect that's usually there wasn't there for Sasuke so it doesn't matter.

Why in the hell would Kaguya risk getting up close to Naruto and Sasuke physically and risk being touched. She used zetsu to paralyze them to stop them from moving so it's safer to absorb their chakra. All of this can literally be inferred and makes more sense than just assuming something else


It didn't have to be stated when we got freaking common sense and the author knows that readers are capable of have interpretation skills. Assuming she has another absorption skill is absolutely faulty when it was never explained as well as the fact that it's even more assumption to believe she has more absorption abilities we don't know about that never got explained

 

[Damage3245]

In the anime he uses almighty push.

From what I've read online, that was a blast of wind, not a blast of gravity.

@Omimi; I've already explained multiple times that she hasn't used Preta Path or Almighty Push.

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; visual effects are kind of important for determining if it is similar to other abilities.

They were already paralyzed before Zetsu touched them.

'Common sense' isn't a viable answer. Not all people are going to have the exact same interpretation of a scene.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Damage So I rewatched that fight and the evidence points toward it being an almighty push. When he uses that move the eyes on his hand turn red, which mean hes using a jutsu.

 

[Damage3245]

Don't his Rinnegan eyes turn red when he is releasing a jutsu he has absorbed?

Also, no other Rinnegan user changes their eye colour when using the Six Paths.

And visually it does look like he is releasing wind rather than an invisible wave of gravity.

 

[Omimi]

I've also explained multiple times with visual evidence similer affect to Preta Path or Almighty Push. that she has used Preta Path and Almighty Push.

she used it i dont care about your opinion over visual evidence

she has rinnegan and absorb amatarasu


all rinngan user has all 7 path and thats similer to pp

its similer to how madara absorb amatarasu


we can clearly see something invisible is pushing backward and destroying all narutos clone and in narutoverse only allmighty push has same affect

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; the thing destroying the Naruto clones is the Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack. The anime version of that scene makes it clearer.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That is how almighty push has been shown to look like throughout the anime, so im pretty confident he was using it.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi; the thing destroying the Naruto clones is the Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack. The anime version of that scene makes it clearer.

no its not

we dont see any chakra arms

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; you don't see chakra arms on the panel because the attack was offscreen in the manga. You only see the after-effects which is the Naruto clones being sent flying back (first panel) and being destroyed (second panel).

You then see Kaguya with her arm stretched out, just like how she does for the Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack (third panel).

 

[Omimi]

attack was definitely on screen

visual affect suggest it was all mighty push

and there 0 visual evidence that suggest its Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack there was no chakra arms and it definitely was not offscreen

there was only invisible things that pushed narutos clone backward and destroyed them all

all mighty push user also need to stretched their arm out so............

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; my point is it is equally plausible to be the Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack, and when we look at the anime version which shows the scene in greater detail it shows that she did use the Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack and not the Almighty Push.

If we had seen Kaguya raised her arm first, then the Naruto clones were blown back by an invisible effect then you'd have a point. But the scene in the manga just starts midway with the clones being blown back.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Disagree for the Same reason I did on the Other Thread.

Reference: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2665066

 

[Omimi]

if it was Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack then chakra arms would have shown to hit all clones

but that never happen

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; on the other thread you mention that Sasuke has the Rinne Sharingan instead of the Rinnegan, but this isn't accurate.

Sasuke only has the Rinnegan.

You state on the other thread that Kaguya having the abilities is simply an assumption. The underlying logic behind that assumption however doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Omimi]

Kaguya has been stated by sasuke to have rinnegan and kishi said all rinagan user can use all 7 path.

that is enough to debunk your thread

i have no chose but to repeat visual evidence over and over to debunk you

I've also explained multiple times with visual evidence similer affect to Preta Path or Almighty Push. that she has used Preta Path and Almighty Push.
she used it i dont care about your opinion over visual evidence

she has rinnegan and absorb amatarasu



all rinngan user has all 7 path
and thats similer to pp
its similer to how madara absorb amatarasu


we can clearly see something invisible is pushing backward and destroying all narutos clone
and in narutoverse only allmighty push has same affect


and there 0 visual evidence that suggest its Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack there was no chakra arms and it definitely was not offscreen

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; except we know for a fact that Kaguya has the Rinne Sharingan, not the Rinnegan.

Sasuke's statement does not say 'Kaguya has all the abilities of the Rinnegan'.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

You state on the other thread that Kaguya having the abilities is simply an assumption.

abductive reasoning.

both require assumptions but mine requires the least amount based on established lore and consistency.

the one that requires the least amount of assumptions is usually the correct one.

Occam's razor.

on the other 'thread', you mention that Sasuke has the Rinne Sharingan instead of the Rinnegan, but this isn't accurate.

Sasuke only has the Rinnega

I countered this aswell in the Thread. we both Mutually agreed to disagree on our stances on it.

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the databook itself state that Sasuke has the Rinnegan? And doesn't Madara state that he has awakened the Rinnegan?

I can't find a single source saying Sasuke has the Rinne Sharingan.

Can you actually state the list of assumptions that you use to say that Kaguya has full access to the Six Paths abilities?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Anyway just like in that thread, I'ts perfectly fine if you disagree.

So my Opinions are in that thread for anyone that cares, take it as you will.

ill take my leave now from the thread.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi; except we know for a fact that Kaguya has the Rinne Sharingan, not the Rinnegan.
Sasuke's statement does not say 'Kaguya has all the abilities of the Rinnegan'.

except we know for a fact that Kaguya has both Rinnegan and Sharingan in her 3rd eye via hagoromo and sasuke statement

he dont need to cuz

Sasuke's statement says that Kaguya has Rinnegan and kishi said all rinnegan user can use all 7 path.

we are both simply repeating something over and over

so its become meaningless argument

just agree to disagree and we are done

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; you shouldn't just abandon the discussion like that. It makes you appear close-minded if you're not even willing to discuss it.

If you're not willing to present evidence, just saying 'I disagree' doesn't contribute anything to the thread.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Shadow; correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the databook itself state that Sasuke has the Rinnegan? And doesn't Madara state that he has awakened the Rinnegan?
I can't find a single source saying Sasuke has the Rinne Sharingan.

Meets the criteria for it in appearance and function, it's only referred to as Sasuke's Rinnegan in the databook which acts more like a Blanket statement.

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; the Rinne Sharingan has nine tomoe, not six. So it doesn't match up to it in appearance.

And in terms of function, it lets Sasuke use completely different techniques to what Kaguya has displayed.

 

[Damage3245]

except we know for a fact that Kaguya has both Rinnegan and Sharingan in her 3rd eye via hagoromo and sasuke statement

he dont need to cuz

Sasuke's statement says that Kaguya has Rinnegan and kishi said all rinnegan user can use all 7 path.

we are both simply repeating something over and over

so its become meaningless argument

just agree to disagree and we are done

Would you mind posting Hagoromo's statement?

 

[Omimi]

disagree:

M3X , Rocker1189 ,AstralKing7, Jvando, BlackeJan, Dzhindzholia, Omimi , Ricsi-viragosi , TataHakai , Monkey Dunno , MostPowerfull ,SnowFlame556 and shadow =13

agree:

Xulrev, Damage3245, DbzDB2, SinsofMan, Paul Frank, Callsign Castle,Ronnijuro,imade

=8

has not interest:

Hst master

unkown:

Sigurd Snake in The Eye,Js250476,Spinoirr =3

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Damage

Because it's something we did Discuss and the points we are arguing are the same as in that Thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2665066

none of us convinced each other and my own Opinion hasnt changed since, so i think linking the old thread is far more efficient than debating the same points.

even more so when my Apathy for debating the HST is rather High.

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; your list of votes is not accurate. Stop reposting it and actually focus on the discussion.

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; if you're not willing to discuss it, then how could you even be convinced anyway?

I believe if we look at the list of assumptions for each side, the side in favor of removing these abilities has far less assumptions.

 

[Omimi]

Would you mind posting Hagoromo's statement?

his statement is about Sharingan

u do understand i was saying that she has both eyes no?


Sharingan from hagoromo statement


Rinnegan from sasuke statement

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Damage

Okay ill debate it here then, I think it's only fair, I might have apathy for the debate itself but you are debating in good faith and i dont want to insult you by not answering.

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; I was never disputing the basic Sharingan abilities that Kaguya has. So that statement from Hagoromo doesn't matter.

The Rinnegan statement from Sasuke doesn't mean 'Kaguya has the Rinnegan'. I don't know how else to tell you this.

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; thank you. I'll be away from my PC for an hour roughly. But when I get back I'd like to try and tackle this together and explore each point.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

no prob ill likely be only able to post it a bit later aswell

 

[SinsofMan]

Well okay Omimi, apparently spamming an inaccurate list is your way of debating.

But first, lets go through the list fairly. While it is true characters have been known to absorb Chakra, nothing of this neither proves or disproves that this ability of the Rinnegan. More evidence is needed, not an assumption that is based on headcanon.

Second, Literally every scan posted above is proof the Rinnegan can do these abilities, but not the Rinne Sharingan. Even the Naruto Wiki does not back up this claim that the Rinne Sharingan can use these abilities, just that the two abilities is descendant from this Dojutsu. https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Rinne_Sharingan#Abilities

Now you could say take the wiki with a grain a salt, and I am willing to do that. But none of this is proven. Unless you want to use a non sequiter and assume that Rinne Sharingan can use both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan abilities. Which, as far as we know, the Rinne Sharingan can only use the IT. And this can only be countered by the Rinnegan. Not that, this proves Kaguya can use the paths of she wanted. Not that, this proves Kaguya has the abilities of the Rinnegan or even the Sharingan.

No, this is based on assumptions. Assumptions that are not backed up by enough evidence.


Even if, and this is a big if, the above was correct that she can use the Almighty Push, this only proves she can use the Deva Path.

I am technically fine with the above if we resorted to Occamd Razer, call it a day and say close this thread but just one last point.

The Mangekyo Sharingan has been shown to use different abilities depending on the user, such as when Kakashi and Obito used Kamui instead of Amaterasu. We already know that abilities in naruto, even Kekkei Genkai Dojutsu can appear in other with varying proficiency and even different abilities. Admitedly, this is food for thought, not a complete debunk. I have seen multiple times in Naruto when character says "This has/hasnt been before!" And then get proven wrong by the plot.

I think it might just be correct to just list for Kaguya the following. Thanks to the Rinne Sharingan, she can likely have both Sharingan and Rinnegan abilities.

Which is the most fair compromise I can come up with. Because honestly, even if you assume that she had these abilities, she very clearly does not use them. In character for her seems to be IT, or Teleporting, or BFR, or well anything else.

I think my compromise makes sense and is the most fair.

 

[Damage3245]

A compromise I could agree to is making a note at the bottom of Kaguya's profile stating that there it is possible that Kaguya could have other ocular abilities but there is no explicit evidence for them.