Kaguya Ōtsutsuki Revision (Naruto)

[Shadowbokunohero]

That would only work if the sharingan's Successor was the Rinnegan, it isn't. the Rinne Sharingan is. the reason Indra didn't awake the Rinnegan was because he didn't inherit every part of the Sage which is why when you combine Asura and Indra's DNA, the Senju and the Uchiha you will awaken the Rinnegan, which is what Madara did. the sharingan is Diluted Version.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

He uses the Rinnegan whenever he uses any absorbed ninjutsu.

He didnt absorb wind jutsu Prior

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

anyway g2g

 

[Damage3245]

@Shadow; I'm pretty sure Momoshiki showed off all five nature transforms prior to that episode.

As for the whole Sharingan / Rinnegan bit; we're still not really at the core of the issue which is assuming that the Rinne Sharingan can use all of the abilities of its derived variants.

After all I don't think Nagato (with the Rinnegan) ever displayed the abilities of the Sharingan in combat?

 

[AstralKing7]

Rinnegan literally lets u see chakra through the body as well as see through visual genjutsu. Madara even can use Susanno with the rinnegan. These are literally abilities only of the sharingan

 

[Damage3245]

Seeing chakra could just be an ability of the Rinnegan itself.

I know that Madara can use his MS techniques while his Rinnegan is active. But his case is different to Kaguya.

Kaguya awakened her Rinne Sharingan directly. She didn't go through a progression of Sharingan > Rinnegan > Rinne Sharingan. So we don't have examples of her using the earlier eye's abilities to say she can use them with the later eye variants.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The justifications to give Kaguya the abilities of the Six Paths sound a lot like Fallacy by Association.

An example:

1) 'All Rinnegan users can use the Six Paths'

2) Kaguya's eyes are related to the Rinnegan (but are not the Rinnegan itself).

3) Therefore Kaguya can use the Six Paths.

I still agree with Damage. There isn't an actual undeniable instance of Kaguya using the Paths.

 

[BlackeJan]

My goodness at this point everyone is saying the same thing and no one is gonna budge so find a way to resolve this or wengo no where

I tbh still disagree since it's the Rinnegan just more godly like. This is like saying just cause the Konohamaru omg knows the Rasengan, he'll never learn how to do a FRS

 

[AstralKing7]

Seeing chakra could just be an ability of the Rinnegan itself.

I know that Madara can use his MS techniques while his Rinnegan is active. But his case is different to Kaguya.

Kaguya awakened her Rinne Sharingan directly. She didn't go through a progression of Sharingan > Rinnegan > Rinne Sharingan. So we don't have examples of her using the earlier eye's abilities to say she can use them with the later eye variants.

Sighs damage. With your logic a lot of things aren't making sense. Urashiki is in the same boat as Kaguya with that logic then which would also make Kaguya as well as Momoshiki. All of those characters awakened rinnegan without the need of a Sharingan. Urashiki has shown rinnegan abilities as well as Momoshiki who didn't have a sharingan

 

[Damage3245]

@BlackeJan; it's now like just because Konohamaru had shown he can use the Rasengan we shouldn't assume he can also use the Rasenshuriken until he does it.

@AstralKing7; both Urashiki and Momoshiki just have the Rinnegan, so there doesn't appear to be an issue for them showing some Rinnegan abilities.

Kaguya on the other hand doesn't have the Rinnegan itself.

 

[TataHakai]

@Tata; if the IT was a pure Rinnegan technique than why would the users need to awaken a Rinne Sharingan first before activating it? Even if we do say it is a Rinnegan technique it may be the only Rinnegan technique Kaguya can use.

They don't need rinne sharingan to activate it, in fact Madara showed Obito the genjutsu before he died

They need RS to use it on the moon and use it on a planetary scale

 

[Damage3245]

@Tata, if I remember correctly Madara just used a basic Sharingan genjutsu on Obito. Not the actual Infinite Tsukuyomi.

At that time Madara had no Rinnegan and we know the Sharingan can create genjutsu.

 

[TataHakai]

Here's Madara's explanation of the jutsu and him using it before he achieved RS

 

[Damage3245]

While I have my doubts regarding that actually being the Infinite Tsukuyomi technique, that would seem to lean away from it being a Rinnegan-exclusive technique if he could cast it with a basic Sharingan.

And we know from Hagoromo's explanation that Kaguya already has the powers of the Sharingan. It is the Six Paths ability alone that I want to remove from her profile; not her other ocular abilities.

 

[TataHakai]

Well he said it's the power of the gedou mazou

which we know can only be summoned via a rinnegan, my best guess would be that the gedou mazou and the rinnegan have similar abilities? Kishi didn't give us much of an explanation

 

[Damage3245]

@Tata; I think by 'power of the Gedo Mazou' he means he was drawing chakra / life force from it due to not having enough of his own. Not that he was drawing any specific technique from it.

He did extend his lifespan by hooking himself up to the Gedo Mazou too.

 

[Omimi]

While I have my doubts regarding that actually being the Infinite Tsukuyomi technique,

u have doubts regarding what madara said = imao

he said he used initial version of Infinite Tsukuyomi without RS

but u have doubts

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah. I'd need to reread the scene with context but to me it looks like Madara is using a Genjutsu as an example for Obito, but the Infinite Tsukuyomi is a specific application of Genjutsu that has different effects to what we see there.

I also think the databook might say something about the Infinite Tsukuyomi needing the Rinne Sharingan but I can't remember what it said exactly so I'll need to verify that.

 

[Omimi]

he clearly state that he used initial version of Infinite Tsukuyomi

u cant have doubts on

what user of Infinite Tsukuyomi said

your nitpicking is reaching to max lvl

if anyone start to nitpick like that with every evidence i am sure we can even downgrade tier 0 to tier 1,2,................11

 

[Damage3245]

It's not as simple as that I think; there is always a degree of interpretation.

Anyway, would you agree based on that, that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is not a technique that requires the Rinnegan to active?

 

[Omimi]

Infinite Tsukuyomi is Rinnegan jutsu so yes Rinnegan is needed

i know what u are going to say

that he didnt have Rinnegan that time

ones Rinnegan/ems awaken

user can use its ability without the Rinnegan/ems but affect is weaker

edo madara and edo nagato both had fake Rinnegan yet they still used its ability

alive eye less madara use Black Receiver

blind itachi use susano

 

[Damage3245]

If the user doesn't need the Rinnegan to use Rinnegan abilities then why did Madara need to get his Rinnegan back from Zetsu before using Limbo?

Why did Madara need to switch from his EMS to Rinnegan in order to use the Preta Path?

Madara's usage of Susano'o without his EMS I don't think was ever explained, but the simplest explanation is what once the user unlocks the Susano'o then they don't necessarily need the EMS in order to activate it.

EDIT: Also, Hagoromo's statement is that Kaguya used the powers of the Sharingan to cast Genjutsu on the entire world. If she used the Rinnegan to do it, he would have said 'She possessed the Rinnegan in addition to the Byakugan and user her ocular powers... etc.'

I think that is enough evidence to show that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is not a Rinnegan technique.

 

[Omimi]

did even u read the manga if not stop creating this this crt b4 reading the manga

the way u respond. its look like u never read it

without Rinnegan its affect is weaker or may not able to use all jutsu

i am done with this BS

unfollowing

 

[AstralKing7]

@BlackeJan; it's now like just because Konohamaru had shown he can use the Rasengan we shouldn't assume he can also use the Rasenshuriken until he does it.

@AstralKing7; both Urashiki and Momoshiki just have the Rinnegan, so there doesn't appear to be an issue for them showing some Rinnegan abilities.

Kaguya on the other hand doesn't have the Rinnegan itself.

Urashiki doesn't have a rinnegan he has a 6 tone rinnegan like Sasuke which wasn't awakened normally. As well as Momoshiki who awakened his rinnegan the same as Kaguya which is why it's in the middle of his head

 

[AstralKing7]

If the user doesn't need the Rinnegan to use Rinnegan abilities then why did Madara need to get his Rinnegan back from Zetsu before using Limbo?

Why did Madara need to switch from his EMS to Rinnegan in order to use the Preta Path?

Madara's usage of Susano'o without his EMS I don't think was ever explained, but the simplest explanation is what once the user unlocks the Susano'o then they don't necessarily need the EMS in order to activate it.

EDIT: Also, Hagoromo's statement is that Kaguya used the powers of the Sharingan to cast Genjutsu on the entire world. If she used the Rinnegan to do it, he would have said 'She possessed the Rinnegan in addition to the Byakugan and user her ocular powers... etc.'

I think that is enough evidence to show that the Infinite Tsukuyomi is not a Rinnegan technique.

Damage omimi only said IT not any other ability can be used without rinnegan

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; so far as we know a Six Tomoe Rinnegan is still just a Rinnegan.

And whether the Infinite Tsukuyomi can be used without a Rinnegan or not, Hagoromo's statement implies that its power is sourced from the Sharingan, not the Rinnegan.

As such her using the Infinite Tsukuyomi does not imply that she can use other Rinnegan abilities.

 

[AstralKing7]

Who is telling you these things...?

The point of the 6 tome rinnegan is to be a rinnegan that retains the abilities of the MS

Also 6 tome rinnegan does evolve from the Sharingan at all.

Dude u do realize IT is a rinnegan jutsu right??? The rinnegan was literally stated to have jutsus as well in the data book. The jutsus aren't referenced as sharingan genjutsus. Your pushing it with the sharingan stuff. The point of the rinnegan being an evolution is the fact that it can use all of the abilities of its earlier stages

 

[Damage3245]

> The point of the 6 tome rinnegan is to be a rinnegan that retains the abilities of the MS

> The point of the rinnegan being an evolution is the fact that it can use all of the abilities of its earlier stages

Taking the latter statement into account, doesn't that mean that the Six Tomoe Rinnegan is nothing special compared to an ordinary Rinnegan?

> Dude u do realize IT is a rinnegan jutsu right???

I'm in the camp that believes the Infinite is a Rinne Sharingan jutsu; not a pure Rinnegan jutsu. As such using it does not mean 'The user also has access to any other Rinnegan jutsu'.

Can you provide a link to the databook page that mentions this?

 

[Omimi]

@AstralKing7let him do what ever he want it wont be removed anyway


we have shown enough evidence for why we disagree but Damage3245 think mangafact is not enough for his opinion so...........

disagree:

M3X , Rocker1189 ,AstralKing7, Jvando, BlackeJan, Dzhindzholia, Omimi , Ricsi-viragosi , TataHakai , Monkey Dunno , MostPowerfull ,SnowFlame556 and shadow and 1997KD =14

agree:

Xulrev, Damage3245, DbzDB2, SinsofMan, Paul Frank, Callsign Castle,Ronnijuro,imade

=8

has not interest:

Hst master

unkown:

Sigurd Snake in The Eye,Js250476,Spinoirr =3

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; I thought you had unfollowed this thread?

Anyway, the matter isn't settled yet. Posting an incorrect list of votes isn't going to change anything.

The side supporting keeping the abilities on her profile have basically been boiled down to extremely little evidence:

- The databook entry stating all users of the Rinnegan have the Six Paths jutsu.

- The claim that Kaguya has the Rinnegan.

The problem is that the notion that Kaguya has the Rinnegan is based on assumptions rather than direct proof.

 

[Omimi]

its correct list of votes

am not going reply to u thats all

but i have to post correct list of votes

 

[Omimi]

@TataHakai

can u count the vote

Damage3245 think i counted wrong

after this we have make a rules about this by requesting Ant and staff

we have debunk this many times so its start to become annoying

 

[Damage3245]

If we cannot get the issue resolved on this thread - and clearly there are people besides me who think there is an issue with the accuracy of the profile - then we may need an additional thread which presents both sides evidence clearly and let a deciding authority come to a conclusion based on both sides arguments.

Clearly this won't work out by trying to change each other's interpretations.

 

[SinsofMan]

I dont think this needs to be written down with a rule unless we get like, another thread with it and everyone is against it. Both times, it was fairly controversial.

 

[Damage3245]

SinsofMan is right. If there was an huge majority of people in favour of these abilities, and a comprehensive amount of evidence in support of it that'd be one thing.

But the very thing we're arguing about is how much evidence is necessary before something can be justified to add to the profile.

 

[Damage3245]

Since we have made a lot of progress on the thread - but not actually arrived at a conclusion yet - I think we should take a step back.

I'm going to write up a detailed summary to better explain my points (since this discussion has covered a lot of different topics) and I will bring that summary forwards to present it for evaluation.

 

[SinsofMan]

Go ahead, I also would like you to a count considering it is hard to keep up with who is who.

It might also be beneficial to notify Kep or a few others about this thread.

 

[Omimi]

1.Human Path used by Gedō Mazō. Gedō Mazō is jubi/kaguya body

https://**********.com/manga/Naruto/0447-010.png

2.Outer Pathemonic Statue Chains used by Gedō Mazō Gedō

3.Black_Receiver is also one of rinngan jutsu by Gedō Mazō

4.Preta_Path use by kaguya

5.Deva Path use by kaguya but some dont agree

 

[Damage3245]

I should have my summary posted tonight. If you want I could include that in it ^ but I'm not sure where to fit it in.

 

[Paul_Frank]

that's literally the gedo mazo though. Also thats a jutsu from the outer path, its the same one that allows the tailed beasts to be sealed inside