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Just an honest question. (DBS - Goku and Jiren)

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Dienomite22 said:
So the how is shaking the Void(Universe with a Space and Time) = low 2-C but Goku and Beeerus nearly destroying the universe =/= Low 2-C?
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Well the void is infinite, but I'm not arguing low 2-C.
 
Im not scalign it only on them fearing Goku/Jiren, that is more of extra proof they have gottent o a new level beyond any previous showing, the main reason is becouse it is stated Jirens power is diffrent from any foe they faced so far, and that it is in relation to his pure power which they are refering, which clarifies they are talking power wise when they say "diffrent". So my understanding is they are saying he is basically strogenr than any foe so far, and on a whole other level, like the gods of destruction, which would include Zamasu.

But theres no point in arguing it, i'm just saying what my interpritation for the statement is.
 
so then Goku is (3-A. High 3-A with Ultra Instinct)

Jiren is (High 3-A)

Daishinkan is (Likely High 3-A, possibly higher)

Angels are all (Likely High 3-A)

And GoDs are (At least 3-A, possibly High 3-A)

Does this sound like a good series of upgrades?
 
The reason for the "likely," is that they could potentially even be as high as Low 2-C, as well as the fact that we aren't sure of the full extent of their power.
 
hmm okay

so what if angels and Daishinkan get

(Likely at least High 3-A, possibly far higher)
 
Likely should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling, but this is not the case of the angels.
 
We don't know where the angels stack up compared to Ultra Instinct/Jiren though, since Whis' main advantage was his Self-Movement Mastery, hence the "Likely High 3-A".

However, Daishinkan is vastly stronger than Whis, meaning he's definitely > Goku and Jiren as well, hence why he gets a possibly higher. But we don't know how powerful he is for sure. He could even be as high as 2-C.
 
The Angels for sure should straight up get High 3-A or at least High 3-A. They should NOT get Likely High 3-A because that sort of implies that Jiren could be stronger than them.
 
We don't know if the Angels actually are stronger though, that's the thing. Likely High 3-A doesn't make them weaker in any sense, it's literally just more accurate until we see if Whis and co are in fact stronger. For all we know, Jiren might be able to fight someone like Whis.
 
The most logical reason to put Whis and angels at High 3-A isn't because "they're for sure stronger," rather than the fact that they use the same techniques as Goku and Jiren, and thus likely are relative to one another.
 
Obvious doesn't equate to anything, though. Goku and Jiren are capable of using a technique even Gods of Destruction can't use, which is the main advantage Angels have over GoDs. Whis even states this to Goku and Vegeta in relation to his limbs all moving of their own accord.
 
It's an ability they have, they're also a hilarious amount stronger than gods, whis can ohko Beerus casually.

If Goku and jiren were above the angels you can be sure whis would of said something or one of the other 11 angels there, but no, they were only compared to gods.
 
Jiren was only stated to have reached the God of destruction level or maybe slightly surpass it(which is questionable), and goku has only tapped to the power of self-movement, not exactly mastered it like the angels do. All of the angels have been proven many times to be on a complete higher level than the Gods of destruction, this further proves Jiren is nowhere near angels' level
 
Seems like admins and staff mostly agree on it, but we don't have any final word yet.

The form is confirmed to be called, "Ultra Instinct".

GoDs would only be 3-A, possibly High 3-A since we don't know if they can do what Jiren and Goku did.

Some might still think Low 2-C is a good idea, but I'm thinking that a High 3-A upgrade will be the more likely upgrade.
 
I think being conservative and going with High 3-A for the upgrade is a much better idea, jumping straight to Tier 2 is a bit early IMO.

Also Ultra Instinct is a badass name to me, better than Limit Breaker and DEFINITELY better than "Mastery of Self-Movement".

EDIT: Just thought of something, wouldn't this also probably go to Vegito Blue and Sword of Hope Trunks, since Vegito Blue was stated to be comparable to Beerus and Sword of Hope Trunks is above Vegito, I think a possibly High 3-A might be in order there too. I dunno about Merged Zamasu, he could go either way.
 
DeezNuts1102 said:
Jiren was only stated to have reached the God of destruction level or maybe slightly surpass it(which is questionable), and goku has only tapped to the power of self-movement, not exactly mastered it like the angels do. All of the angels have been proven many times to be on a complete higher level than the Gods of destruction, this further proves Jiren is nowhere near angels' level
Click to expand...
They are generally on a higher level than Gods of Destruction, yes. That doesn't mean that Jiren is nowhere near their level; that's not something which is stated at all. And even if Jiren/Goku's raw power is only slightly more than a GoD, they still are capable of using a technique which is something that GoDs usually never master (I'm guessing the 4 "top," universes might be the exceptions.)
 
Pikachu942 said:
I think being conservative and going with High 3-A for the upgrade is a much better idea, jumping straight to Tier 2 is a bit early IMO.
Also Ultra Instinct is a badass name to me, better than Limit Breaker and DEFINITELY better than "Mastery of Self-Movement".
Click to expand...
The form was obtained through breaking his limits, though, and Mastery of Self-Movement is a technique, not a form; the same thing (or similar to) what Jiren and the Angels use.
 
Wait for everyone to see it first, most staff members are inactive at this time of the day. Also, no to the possibly higher. The jump to the next tier is infinite
 
Kaltias said:
Wait for everyone to see it first, most staff members are inactive at this time of the day. Also, no to the possibly higher. The jump to the next tier is infinite
Click to expand...
So then angels/Daishinkan would just be High 3-A?
 
I don't know. DBS isn't my area of expertise, so i'll leave the decision to others
 
I can see arguments for both sides, we have people who seen and were there when infinite zamasu came a thing saying, yeah, jiren is the most powerful opponent I've ever seen (supreme kai) and whis seemed to imply he could take infinite zamasu, but it goes both ways.
 
I've stayed current with Super since its birth, but comparing Goku/Jiren to Infinite Zamasu is just not applicable. As I stated above, Goku's confidence in fighting him means relatively nothing, since he's pretty much the kind of guy who would rather go down fighting anyway.
 
>Implying Goku's word means anything

Not once, did I ever, bring up Goku saying that, I'm talking about Whis and Supreme Kai's statements and implications.
 
Metaphor nothing else.

Even gods of destruction 3 at the time apperently didn't make anything shake figures 2 person who are said to have the power necessary to become a god of destruction, but could easily be much weaker than they are as not all gods of destruction are equal in power.

We also don't even know how high your power has to be for you to become a God of destruction cause the 12 gods could easily be well above that lvl.
 
Still, I don't think (at least right now) that that will lend to AP considerations much, although in the future it could lead to more specification.
 
Universe level: Characters who can destroy all of the physical matter within an observable universe at full power. More specifically, usually via an explosion, omnidirectional energy blast, or a shockwave, that encompasses all of the stars and planets within a universe.

High Universe level: Characters who have an infinite degree of 3-dimensional power. Alternately 4-dimensional power that is shown as completely qualitatively superior to 3-Dimensional beings, but is less than universal in scale. Or that allows them to create large parts of a universal continuum. Take note that 4-D power should logically always be superior to countably infinite 3-D power, so characters within this tier are not necessarily comparable. Also take note that we consider most small-scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP.

Jiren >or = (Current) Ultra Instinct Goku > 100% Beerus > (Current ToP) SSJB Goku

100% Beerus > SSJG Goku (BoG) + Unknown % Beerus > Universe 7

Goku isn't 4th dimensional, so that's out. How does shaking a void outside of normal space and time work? The void technically has its own separate space and time.

This is confusing...

By the way, can we add the new photos of SSJB KKx20 and Ultra Instinct Goku?
 
On serious note gods doesn't scale because they made very big deal of Goku's new power and said they feat it, although possibly is fine

But really now, watch every become High 3-A in the next few episodes
 
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