Just an honest question. (DBS - Goku and Jiren)

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's not an outlier, what the hell. IT's just a higher-end feat for stronger characters. Gods have shown to be capable of easily destroy 2 universes. Fiction doesn't make infinite differentiations like we do.

 

[Aeyu]

Also, it's not outlier-esque if it was established twice, stated multiple times, and the characters were shown to have a power that is possibly greater than all GoDs, as well as them now being vastly superior to all known 3-A characters otherwise. (Goku deflected Dyspo and Toppo without any effort whatsoever, and it can be assumed that they were at at least close to full power)

I'm saying the feat it self is outlierish, not the statement that the WoV is infinite.

Except it's not inconsistent with what's been shown in any way, and as stated, was established more than once.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I'm just afraid that after this arc is over, nothing about them having infinite power will ever be implied again.

On the otherhand though, I've been meaning to make a thread about another possible Low 2-C feat that already happened. But I guess I'll just ask about it here. Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks survived attacks from Infinite Zamasu. Would that be Low 2-C durability?

 

[Kaltias]

A feat isn't an outlier just because it's much stronger than every other feat (which this feat isn't anyway because it's High 3-A and tier 2 DB is a thing). It's an outlier when it contradicts the other feats (if this was done by Krillin, for example)

 

[Aeyu]

I'm just afraid that after this arc is over, nothing about them having infinite power will ever be implied again.
On the otherhand though, I've been meaning to make a thread about another possible Low 2-C feat that already happened. But I guess I'll just ask about it here. Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks survived attacks from Infinite Zamasu. Would that be Low 2-C durability?

That may or may not be true, regardless, it doesn't change the fact that they definitely did affect the entirety of an infinite space. Personally, I think they may keep to that level, if it was already established as such.

 

[Aeyu]

A feat isn't an outlier just because it's much stronger than every other feat (which this feat isn't anyway because it's High 3-A and tier 2 DB is a thing). It's an outlier when it contradicts the other feats (if this was done by Krillin, for example)

also this

 

[Therefir]

I'm just afraid that after this arc is over, nothing about them having infinite power will ever be implied again.

Well, we have wait another 100 episodes in order to show better feats.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Well if Goku does get the upgrade, I think he should only be with his new form. SSB and SSBKKx20 should still remain 3-A.

 

[Therefir]

Well if Goku does get the upgrade, I think he should only be with his new form. SSB and SSBKKx20 should still remain 3-A.

Yes, and probably Hit with his reactive evolution.

 

[Skytheblue]

So if Jiren is High 3-A (aka infinite power), how the hell did his attacks not instantly disintegrate Kale and the other warriors who have finite durability? In fact, the freaking stage itself has finite durability yet Jiren is not doing infinite damage to it either.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

F I C T I O N

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

@Skytheblue

I kinda already answered that question.

 

[Aeyu]

Well if Goku does get the upgrade, I think he should only be with his new form. SSB and SSBKKx20 should still remain 3-A.

This is a given. All that would realistically happen is that he would receive a new key, which would probably look something like, "3-A. High 3-A with Ultra Instinct form," or something to that effect.

Additionally, in response to why Jiren didn't vaporize Kale, it's because he only uses enough power as to incapicitate his foes. Also, AOE is a thing. It's the same argument as, "If <insert character here> is 3-A why don't their attacks all wipe out the universe?"

 

[Kaltias]

Well iirc pretty much everyone in the ToP holds back because you can't kill the others or something like that. Also, that's like asking how people throw planet busting attacks everywhere since Saiyan saga without destroying Earth. And the answer is...

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I can't believe it's actually happening though. High 3-A Goku. Never thought I'd live to see the day. It makes me wonder what he'll be at by the end of Super, especially if this series goes one for several more years.

 

[Aeyu]

I can't believe it's actually happening though. High 3-A Goku. Never thought I'd live to see the day. It makes me wonder what he'll be at by the end of Super, especially if this series goes one for several more years.

And to think, it's actually backed by logic, feats and statements now instead of just hyperbole.

To be honest, I don't know, but I don't ever realistically see him going past Low 2-C unless he becomes a real god of some sort.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Just gonna say, shaking the void is very impressive, if you can shake the actual void itself and not jsut the stage i'd think that would require significant 4D power. ALso just gonna say technically their energy crossed and physically effected an infinite distance in a finite time :3

Also worth noting is supreme kai says Jiren's power felt like nothing they had ever faced before, and that it was just powerful pure and simple clarifying that he meant power wise, then Whis says suprised that he has reached god of destruction level, possibly higher, something Whis has never admited or said before for any foe they have faced, also it is stated that Goku possibly reached a state most "gods" have a hard time reaching, the obvious referance being to gods of destruction who were all amazed at his power and looked fearful of it even. Also TOIE admits Jiren is in the god of destruction range of power on his bio to. So it's safe to say he and Goku's new form are equal or slightly above god of destrruction level power.

Now this does raise one further final point, since Jiren's and Goku's power was said to be beyond any foe they have faced or felt yet, and on a brand new level, even enough to amaze Whis and scare the gods of destruction, I think it is likely they have surpassed Zamasu, who they had also fought and felt, and who seemed to be little threat to Beerus or Whis from their reactions to his power. So that would also strengthen them being tier 2 if they are above Zamasu.

 

[Aeyu]

Just gonna say, shaking the void is very impressive, if you can shake the actual void itself and not jsut the stage i'd think that would require significant 4D power. ALso just gonna say technically their energy crossed and physically effected an infinite distance in a finite time :3
Also worth noting is supreme kai says Jiren's power felt like nothing they had ever faced before, and that it was just powerful pure and simple clarifying that he meant power wise, then Whis says suprised that he has reached god of destruction level, possibly higher, something Whis has never admited or said before for any foe they have faced, also it is stated that Goku possibly reached a state most "gods" have a hard time reaching, the obvious referance being to gods of destruction who were all amazed at his power and looked fearful of it even. Also TOIE admits Jiren is in the god of destruction range of power on his bio to. So it's safe to say he and Goku's new form are equal or slightly above god of destrruction level power.

Now this does raise one further final point, since Jiren's and Goku's power was said to be beyond any foe they have faced or felt yet, and on a brand new level, even enough to amaze Whis and scare the gods of destruction, I think it is likely they have surpassed Zamasu, who they had also fought and felt, and who seemed to be little threat to Beerus or Whis from their reactions to his power. So that would also strengthen them being tier 2 if they are above Zamasu.

Even if it's agreed that Goku and Jiren are now Low 2-C, (which I think High 3-A is a lot more likely to happen at this point) I don't think either of them are at Infinite Zamasu's level.

 

[Dienomite22]

@SSJRyu1 How is shaking the Void 4D?

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well they do say Jirens power is diffrent from any they have ever felt, and that it is just pure power they are feeling, so that already implies he is above Zamasu tbh since his pure power is superior. Also looking at the reactions of the gods of destruction and whis to goku and jiren, compared to beerus and whis realatively uncaring reaction to Zamasu, i'd say it is likely jiren and Gokua re superior to him tbh, in fact probably the gods of destruction to tbh since they are in the same range as jiren adn Goku.

 

[Therefir]

@SSJRyu1 How is shaking the Void 4D?

The world of void is infinite and don't have space and time.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Dienomite If you can shake a space time continum itself that is 4D. You can;t shake a void without shaking it's space time since that is all it is, empty space time. And yes it does have space adn time since Hit can time skip and they clearly are effected by space and time in the tournament.

 

[Aeyu]

Well they do say Jirens power is diffrent from any they have ever felt, and that it is just pure power they are feeling, so that already implies he is above Zamasu tbh since his pure power is superior. Also looking at the reactions of the gods of destruction and whis to goku and jiren, compared to beerus and whis realatively uncaring reaction to Zamasu, i'd say it is likely jiren and Gokua re superior to him tbh, in fact probably the gods of destruction to tbh since they are in the same range as jiren adn Goku.

This is all a bit presumptuous. It's not stated that Jiren's a bigger threat than Zamasu, just that it's something different than they've ever experienced before.

 

[Aeyu]

@SSJRyu1 How is shaking the Void 4D?

The world of void is infinite and don't have space and time.

It just simply doesn't have space and time like we do. If it didn't have space, it couldn't be infinite in size, and if it didn't have time, the pillar in the center wouldn't move down with time.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Not sure, if they said he was stronger than literally anything else they faced before, including someone who was there with zamasu (supreme kau) and whis too who felt infinite zamasu and was thinking of going to stop him him then there's a bit of reasoning there.

 

[Aeyu]

Not sure, if they said he was stronger than literally anything else they faced before, including someone who was there with zamasu (supreme kau) and whis too who felt infinite zamasu and was thinking of going to stop him him then there's a bit of reasoning there.

It's still a bit presumptuous. It's not as usable in regards to AP as the other statements.

 

[Dienomite22]

@SSJRyu1 Where they affecting time in the Void?Them shaking the Void would just be like shaking the space in the Void and not its time unless stated or shown otherwise right?.

 

[Therefir]

But they only shake the world of void, they need to destroy it completely to become low 2-C.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Maybe, I'm not arguing for 2-C or anything. (They could stay the same as now, I'm fine with it)

But when we have Supreme Kai stating Jiren is above anything else he's seen before in power despite seeing and even being there when infinite zamasu happened and Whis was hyping Jiren up too, Whis knowing full well infinite zamasu exusted and was getting ready to step in when he felt him then there's stuff to go off of.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Aeyu The thing is they do continue that statemnt by clarifying it is his pure power that is completly diffrent, so it would mean stronger or more powerful imo. It really isn't a stretch considering just powering up, not even at full power they shook an infnite space time continuum itself, not just the matter in it.

Also again, even the gods of destruction are amazed and afraid of their power, and Whis is amazed to, yet Beerus and Whis saw Zamasu power as little threat and didn't even bother acting on it when it entered their timeline. So i mean it really is heavily implied Jiren and Goku are superior to any previous opponent, minus the angels and zeno.

Of course thats my take on it.

 

[Therefir]

So you are saying that gods can't scale from this feat?

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Dienomite They shook the world of void itself, which is essentially the fabric of space time for an infnite size universe. So yes it would be 4D to shake space time. But tbh the fact Jiren is heavily implied to be strogner than Zamasu is even greater proof since Zaamsu is already easily Low 2-C or more if im being frank.

 

[Aeyu]

@Aeyu The thing is they do continue that statemnt by clarifying it is his pure power that is completly diffrent, so it would mean stronger or more powerful imo. It really isn't a stretch considering just powering up, not even at full power they shook an infnite space time continuum itself, not just the matter in it.
Also again, even the gods of destruction are amazed and afraid of their power, and Whis is amazed to, yet Beerus and Whis saw Zamasu power as little threat and didn't even bother acting on it when it entered their timeline. So i mean it really is heavily implied Jiren and Goku are superior to any previous opponent, minus the angels and zeno.

Of course thats my take on it.

It's not implied that they affected the space-time as much as just the infinite space of the Void. Also, you can't scale characters just because of other characters being impressed at their power. Goku thinking he could take on Infinite Zamasu was less Goku being able to and more a device so that he would find he still had the Zen'o button. The GoDs are indeed afraid of their power and it is very heavily implied that both are past the level of GoDs, but there's no way to scale this to Infinite Zamasu.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

They probably scale, just to a lesser degree.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Gods of destruction should scale to it. Jiren is stated in their ballpark of power, and possibly strogner, so eh si not clear cut vastly superior or anything.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yeah, they scale, but to a lesser degree.

 

[Aeyu]

Then what would the GoDs be ranked at? 3-A, possibly higher?

 

[Therefir]

Then what would the GoDs be ranked at? 3-A, possibly higher?

3-A, possibly High 3-A

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

3-A, possibly High 3-A. (Or whatever this feat is).

 

[Dienomite22]

So the how is shaking the Void(Universe with a Space and Time) = low 2-C but Goku and Beeerus nearly destroying the universe =/= Low 2-C?Shaking the Void is High 3-A they weren't shaking the time within the Void