Just an honest question. (DBS - Goku and Jiren)

[LordGinSama]

Scary as in weird. Not as in power.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also guys, keep in mind that Goku and Company can indeed destroy Space-Time, even in base form. See Vegeta blowing up the RoSaT (I know it is Planet-sized, but the important thing to note is that he destroyed space-time in that feat).

 

[Aeyu]

Oh, well then, no, it doesn't sound scary as long as the logic behind the upgrades are sound enough. (Remember, Jiren is still > Goku to an unknown point)

 

[Aeyu]

Also guys, keep in mind that Goku and Company can indeed destroy Space-Time, even in base form. See Vegeta blowing up the RoSaT (I know it is Planet-sized, but the important thing to note is that he destroyed space-time in that feat).

So then affecting an infinite plane could be extended to a higher end High 3-A, logically?

 

[Skytheblue]

This is way to vague to literally upgrade Goku and Jiren infinitely higher.

 

[Therefir]

This is way to vague to literally upgrade Goku and Jiren infinitely higher.

Not really, they shake the whole world of void, who is infinite in size.

 

[Dienomite22]

Wait I thought the Void has no time or space so how would shaking or threatening to destroy the Void be a low 2-C feat?

 

[Aeyu]

This is way to vague to literally upgrade Goku and Jiren infinitely higher.

Not really, they shake the whole world of void, who is infinite in size.

I posted scans, which are above.

 

[Skytheblue]

Wait I thought the Void has no time or space so how would shaking or threatening to destroy the Void be a low 2-C feat?

Lmfao no.

If the Void has no time and space, how the hell was Hit using his time skip ability the whole time?

That was obviously just a hyperbole. The ToP lasts for 48 minutes in a world without time? I don't even think 3D characters can function normally in a place without time and space. The characters are clearly obeying the laws of physics and all that, in a place where time and space doesn't exist? Nah dude.

 

[Skytheblue]

And btw, how the hell does Krillin even have the ability to sense an infinite amount of power? How did he sense that the entire infinite Void is shaking? He's only High 4-C.

 

[Dienomite22]

So it does have a Time and Space, so how does shaking the Void or threatening to destroy the void be a Low 2-C feat?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Goku didn't destroy the void, all he did was shake it, however shaking a universe usually gives like what? Galaxy level results at best i think, but if you are literally shaking infinite space, infinite is infinite, to be able to do that in the first place you would have to be infinite, High 3-A is legit i think.

 

[Aeyu]

Wait I thought the Void has no time or space so how would shaking or threatening to destroy the Void be a low 2-C feat?

Lmfao no.
If the Void has no time and space, how the hell was Hit using his time skip ability the whole time?

That was obviously just a hyperbole. The ToP lasts for 48 minutes in a world without time? I don't even think 3D characters can function normally in a place without time and space. The characters are clearly obeying the laws of physics and all that, in a place where time and space doesn't exist? Nah dude.

I don't think it's that it has no time, it's more like the RoSaT, where time functions differently while in the WoV.

Krillin is also not the one who states that, it's the Elder Kaioshin. Krillin is just on the screen looking down at the fight when it's stated.

 

[Therefir]

Wait I thought the Void has no time or space so how would shaking or threatening to destroy the Void be a low 2-C feat?

Lmfao no.
If the Void has no time and space, how the hell was Hit using his time skip ability the whole time?

That was obviously just a hyperbole. The ToP lasts for 48 minutes in a world without time? I don't even think 3D characters can function normally in a place without time and space. The characters are clearly obeying the laws of physics and all that, in a place where time and space doesn't exist? Nah dude.

We can just argue that the time in the plataform is like in our world, but the rest of the world of void have no time or space, so low 2-C is still possibly.

 

[Aeyu]

Wait I thought the Void has no time or space so how would shaking or threatening to destroy the Void be a low 2-C feat?

Lmfao no.
If the Void has no time and space, how the hell was Hit using his time skip ability the whole time?

That was obviously just a hyperbole. The ToP lasts for 48 minutes in a world without time? I don't even think 3D characters can function normally in a place without time and space. The characters are clearly obeying the laws of physics and all that, in a place where time and space doesn't exist? Nah dude.

We can just argue that the time in the plataform is like in our world, but the rest of the world of void have no time or space, so low 2-C is still possibly.

Time just functions differently. There is still obviously some form of time, since the center pillar moves according to said time.

 

[Skytheblue]

They're not Low 2-C. Stop it.

Guys.... just think about it.

If Goku is High 3-A, literally NOBODY will ever be able to match Goku for even 0.0000001 seconds (unless they're also High 3-A). Even if Goku is holding back or using ki control or whatever, a fraction of infinity is still infinity.

And if Goku and Jiren were to be upgraded to High 3-A, then the Gods of Destruction won't scale because Beerus does not possess infinite power. He had to use 10% of his strength to defeat an enraged Vegeta and SSJ God Goku (who is only 3-A) was able to match a held back Beerus.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Therefir But if the Void did lack Time and Space how does shaking it counts as Low 2-C when becoming Low 2-C requires time to be destroyed or created on a universal scale?

 

[Therefir]

They're not Low 2-C. Stop it.
Guys.... just think about it.

If Goku is High 3-A, literally NOBODY will ever be able to match Goku for even 0.0000001 seconds (unless they're also High 3-A). Even if Goku is holding back or using ki control or whatever, a fraction of infinite is still infinite.

The Asriel reason all over again.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

They're not Low 2-C. Stop it.
Guys.... just think about it.

If Goku is High 3-A, literally NOBODY will ever be able to match Goku for even 0.0000001 seconds (unless they're also High 3-A). Even if Goku is holding back or using ki control or whatever, a fraction of infinite is still infinite.

Being infinite doesn't mean you can't deliberately restrict yourself to a finite amount of power.

 

[Aeyu]

They're not Low 2-C. Stop it.
Guys.... just think about it.

If Goku is High 3-A, literally NOBODY will ever be able to match Goku for even 0.0000001 seconds (unless they're also High 3-A). Even if Goku is holding back or using ki control or whatever, a fraction of infinite is still infinite.

Affecting the entire structure of an infinite realm is definitely a High 3-A feat, though. And it was both characters who are capable of such a feat. Also, neither Dyspo or Toppo (both incredibly strong 3-A characters in their own right) were able to even slightly affect Goku in his new form. Additionally, Belmod stated that no one, no matter who they were, could beat Jiren, and was extremely confident that Jiren could defeat every single other character in the arena. Plus, Whis stated that the rumor about a mortal stronger than Gods of Destruction was true in regard to Jiren's power. I think there is definitely enough here to argue for a High 3-A rating.

 

[Skytheblue]

Being infinite doesn't mean you can't deliberately restrict yourself to a finite amount of power.

I don't think that's possible unless you have some sort of ability that allows you to do that.

 

[Aeyu]

They're not Low 2-C. Stop it.
Guys.... just think about it.

If Goku is High 3-A, literally NOBODY will ever be able to match Goku for even 0.0000001 seconds (unless they're also High 3-A). Even if Goku is holding back or using ki control or whatever, a fraction of infinite is still infinite.

Being infinite doesn't mean you can't deliberately restrict yourself to a finite amount of power.

This, as well. Additionally, AP does not equal durability, which is something to keep in mind, although the durability would also likely increase dramatically.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You are literally just saying that Goku can't be Tier 2 cause he'll be the weakest Tier 2.

 

[Ryukama]

Not giving much of an opinion here yet. But I'm wondering something. Isn't the World of Void supposed to be made of literally nothing except the arena? So would shaking such a thing even be a quantifiable feat?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Saying he can't be tier 2 cause he would be the weakest isn't a good argument, neither is saying characters can't restrict themselves despite having infinite power, this is fiction.

Also this feat doesn't make him tier 2, he didn't destroy the void, all he did was shake it, it's a High 3-A feat.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I don't think that's possible unless you have some sort of ability that allows you to do that.

If that were the case, then no High 3-A would be able to live a normal life. E.g. drinks a glass of water, and the universe blows up. Opens a door, and rips it off with such force that the universe blows up. Takes a shit and... well you get my point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not giving much of an opinion here yet. But I'm wondering something. Isn't the World of Void supposed to be made of literally nothing except the arena? So would shaking such a thing even be a quantifiable feat?

No, it's stated to be an infinite void beyond the Arena. It goes on forever and is disconnected from the multiverse.

 

[Ryukama]

So the World of Void isn't filled with a bunch of nothingness? I thought I recalled you saying that a while ago.

If they actually shook the entirety of an infinite area, then I guess High 3-A for them and the gods would be okay.

 

[Skytheblue]

Not giving much of an opinion here yet. But I'm wondering something. Isn't the World of Void supposed to be made of literally nothing except the arena? So would shaking such a thing even be a quantifiable feat?

Yes exactly.

This feat is not quantifiable. It doesn't even make sense. The place that they're in is just the arena and nothing else. It's not High 3-A. Goku and Jiren shook an infinite amount of nothing. That's not High 3-A.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>shook an infinite amount

Even if it was nothing they still shook an infinite amount of it.

 

[Therefir]

' 'Doesn't even make sence' ' This is dragon ball, and even if the place is made of nothing, they shake the whole world of void, who is infinite in size.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I might get some flack for this, but I feel like even if this feat is technically valid, it's sort of outlierish. Goku and many others having quantitatively infinite power is really a bit hard to believe, and I feel like in order for this to be established, there should be multiple feats demonstrating infinite power on a somewhat consistent basis.

 

[Skytheblue]

An infinite amount of zero is still zero. You can add zero to zero for all of eternity and you would still just have zero.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

They shook an outerverse. 1-A Goku and Jiren upgrade ovo

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

The world of the void is empty, but it's still infinite in size.

The fact they can shake the entire thing is still infinite, even if it's essentially a zero. At the very least it's sure as hell an upgrade in range.

 

[Therefir]

I might get some flack for this, but I feel like even if this feat is technically valid, it's sort of outlierish. Goku and many others having quantitatively infinite power is really a bit hard to believe, and I feel like in order for this to be established, there should be multiple feats demonstrating infinite power on a somewhat consistent basis.

I don't think this is a outlier, writers of dragon ball super don't make a difference between 3-A and High 3-A.

 

[Aeyu]

Not giving much of an opinion here yet. But I'm wondering something. Isn't the World of Void supposed to be made of literally nothing except the arena? So would shaking such a thing even be a quantifiable feat?

Yes exactly.
This feat is not quantifiable. It doesn't even make sense. The place that they're in is just the arena and nothing else. It's not High 3-A. Goku and Jiren shook an infinite amount of nothing. That's not High 3-A.

It was still an infinite plane that they affected, "nothing," or not. Space is mostly empty, but affecting the universe doesn't become high end 3-B.

 

[Aeyu]

I might get some flack for this, but I feel like even if this feat is technically valid, it's sort of outlierish. Goku and many others having quantitatively infinite power is really a bit hard to believe, and I feel like in order for this to be established, there should be multiple feats demonstrating infinite power on a somewhat consistent basis.

Also, it's not outlier-esque if it was established twice, stated multiple times, and the characters were shown to have a power that is possibly greater than all GoDs, as well as them now being vastly superior to all known 3-A characters otherwise. (Goku deflected Dyspo and Toppo without any effort whatsoever, and it can be assumed that they were at at least close to full power)

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Also, it's not outlier-esque if it was established twice, stated multiple times, and the characters were shown to have a power that is possibly greater than all GoDs, as well as them now being vastly superior to all known 3-A characters otherwise. (Goku deflected Dyspo and Toppo without any effort whatsoever, and it can be assumed that they were at at least close to full power)

I'm saying the feat it self is outlierish, not the statement that the WoV is infinite.

 

[Aeyu]

So the World of Void isn't filled with a bunch of nothingness? I thought I recalled you saying that a while ago.
If they actually shook the entirety of an infinite area, then I guess High 3-A for them and the gods would be okay.

This, affecting the entirety of an infinite area (as referenced by the scans more than once) is definitely at least a High 3-A feat. And I would argue that it's not literally *nothing* as much as empty space. Scale this from being stronger than Gods of Destruction, and it starts to sound completely plausible.