Jujutsu Kaisen: Yuta Okkotsu Revamp

[KingTempest]

Accounting for CT ≠ Accounting for Ultimate Form

 

[Maitreya12]

Accounting for CT ≠ Accounting for Ultimate Form

His CT is his ultimate form so it would in this case inherently.

Like literally intrinsically. If Gojo is accounting for Hakari’s CT then he’s accounting for jackpot Hakari because that’s the whole purpose and goal of his CT.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Maitreya Chapter 243 backs up for Kenjaku talking about CE storage
TCB

How?! What's okkotsu doing here? With his enormous amount of cursed energy, i should have noticed his every move...!!

Official Translation

How did this happen?!! okkotsu has immense cursed energy!! why didn't i notice?!

Scanpia

WHY!! It's okkotsu yuta with that insane amount of cursed energy!! How did i not notice it...!?

Ah whoops my mistake, I was thinking of the different statement of Kenjaku citing Yuta as the leader of the heavy hitters that would go after Sukuna if Gojo lost. And the fact that Yuta was chosen above else to immediately take care of Kenjaku after an opening was created and then hurry back as quickly as possible to help with the fight against Sukuna while Hakari fights Uruame further indicates the point that Yuta is in fact the second strongest after Gojo. Which is supported by other narrator statements as well.

Look I don't have problem with Base Yuta scaling above Base Hakari
But it's like Base Yuta >~ Base Hakari at best.
But jackpot Hakari > Yuta should be a thing.

Also the fact that Yuta was confident in taking care of Sukuna’s Shikigami which included Mahoraga while Gojo fought Sukuna further indicates Yuta is superior to Hakari since Hakari even with jackpot is going even with Uruame whose complete and utter fodder to characters on Gojo and Sukuna’s level.

Uraume was getting physically dominated her ice freezes because of hax based abilities. So, comparing her fight to Yuta's statement isn't really accurate. In that same panel where Yuta was ready to jump in. Gojo only suggested them to intervene when he becomes weaker than any one of them, which should be relative from Gojo's point of view. Hakari didn't have the Jackpot at that time.

Who says this is not accounting to jackpot Hakari? Where in the statement did you come to the conclusion that Gojo isn’t accounting for Hakari’s CT when discussing his strength? He makes no mention of Hakari without his CT or in base or whatever, so when he’s talking about Hakari’s level, he’s discussing all his capabilities as his wouldn’t make sense to exclude his abilities from his assessment.

Jackpot Hakari is something that has a low probability, like 1 in 229. If he gets killed before hitting the jackpot, he's done for. Gojo considering Hakari's strength based on the jackpot alone would be far fetched. Honestly, it doesn't make sense. Like above Sukuna fight Gojo suggested to jump in based on casual Hakari not Jackpot.

Casual Hakari was able to give a small scratches on Kashimo's face + his Body was durable enough to tank his hits though he got knocked out because of Kashimo's better martial arts skills to slap on his neck and Kashimo was faster so he can't really fight back here.

Also Hakari and Yuta are only people who took Blue induced punches during their training with Gojo. Knowing Hakari & Yuta equally traumatized by it. There's no superiority or inferiority here. I'll call this Base Hakari taking the punch, not Jackpot Hakari. It doesn't make sense for Jackpot Hakari to feel much pain when the dude got his head and torso ripped by Kashimo, which is worse than Gojo's punch. The only way Hakari would have experienced pain is in his base form. Gojo is confident enough to train him at the same level as Yuta. If Base Hakari isn't somewhat relative to Yuta, he wouldn't have used Blue Induced punches for training. Yuji has the best physics in the cast, yet Gojo never used them to train him. Also, as I mentioned earlier, Gojo came back from the prison realm and stayed with them for 35 days, has enough knowledge about current Hakari and Yuta. He entrusted both to carry him if he gets weaker than any one of them on an equal level.

My POV might change if Yuta showcases better feats but that's for future chapters to come. For now only statements available for both and both are relatively close. Jackpot Hakari > Yuta >~ Base Hakari.

---

Edit: Some more feats for Casual / Base Hakari.

• Could have one shoted Charles if it wasn't for his precognition
• Draws blood from Yuji with single Kick and tanked Yujis headbutt with zero damage
• Tanked the Explosion created by all of his Kashimo's CE. Look it's done by binding vow but should be noted that it's just done by his base CE which was in his hand alone. Not anything extra he shifted the energy with binding vow nothing extra was done.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Shouldn't Yuta and other high tier sorcerers scale above Uraume's 7-C for being stronger than her?

 

[Zabazab]

The narration outright calling Yuta second only to Gojo in the modern era feels pretty blatant imo. Yuta infamously puts his friends on a pedestal, and his own claim that Hakari is stronger is contested in the exact same scene.

I think Peak Yuta > Peak Hakari is pretty obviously the intention.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The narration outright calling Yuta second only to Gojo in the modern era feels pretty blatant imo. Yuta infamously puts his friends on a pedestal, and his own claim that Hakari is stronger is contested in the exact same scene.

I think Peak Yuta > Peak Hakari is pretty obviously the intention.

This is already addressed by KT previously. Unusual Abilities. Not by strength.
Narrative, Kenjaku talks about Yutas CE storage more often & his unusual Abilities because of copy technique and Even yuta himself kinda implied he is more effective against Maho and Agito it's not sure if he was actually going to fight them on head especially Hakari clearly indicates Gojo was still stronger than both of them(Hakari+Yuta) and Maho & Agito were literally fast and relative enough to keep up with Gojo. Yuta saying he can maho and Agito should considered the fact he has Uros and other copied Abilities which would give enough time for Gojo to finish off Sukuna. What I'm saying is all his statement comes for having abilities instead of strength.

Also I'm pretty sure Hakari would have given special grade if it wasn't for Jujutsu high kicking him out and hating his CT. They have seperate rules for that shit.

 

[Giannysmag]

Also I'm pretty sure Hakari would have given special grade if it wasn't for Jujutsu high kicking him out and hating his CT. They have seperate rules for that shit.

Butting into the thread to say that this likely wouldnt be the case. To be a special grade you need to be able to take out a nation, which Kenjaku implies requires a huge AOE attack or an army. Hakari is a guy that punches hard and can become inmortal for a few minutes. Conservative higher ups or not, he doesnt meet the qualifications for special grade

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Butting into the thread to say that this likely wouldnt be the case. To be a special grade you need to be able to take out a nation, which Kenjaku implies requires a huge AOE attack or an army. Hakari is a guy that punches hard and can become inmortal for a few minutes. Conservative higher ups or not, he doesnt meet the qualifications for special grade

Yuki & Yuta laughs in the corner . Unfortunately it's talking about Gojo level and Geto Qualifies with his Curse Manipulation. Yuta and Yuki are considered Special Grade even though neither of them meets the qualifications. Heck, Yuki got the title without sharing her information with the higher ups. Kenjaku literally admitted that her information was nowhere to be found.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Just fu.cking remove Hakari from the AP justification and end the day. Theres a big room for Hakari VS Yuta and neither of them need to mention each other in their profiles. Yuta can scale just fine to Low 7-C without Hakari

 

[JnSteHar002]

Butting into the thread to say that this likely wouldnt be the case. To be a special grade you need to be able to take out a nation, which Kenjaku implies requires a huge AOE attack or an army. Hakari is a guy that punches hard and can become inmortal for a few minutes. Conservative higher ups or not, he doesnt meet the qualifications for special grade

Yuki & Yuta laughs in the corner . Unfortunately it's talking about Gojo level and Geto Qualifies with his Curse Manipulation. Yuta and Yuki are considered Special Grade even though neither of them meets the qualifications. Heck, Yuki got the title without sharing her information with the higher ups. Kenjaku literally admitted that her information was nowhere to be found.

Also, what exactly do they mean by a nation? I assume that most of them would have no knowledge let alone any effective strategies to counter most sorcerers. I could see even a grade 4 taking out a small squad of trained, experienced soldiers mid-diff.

 

[Zabazab]

This is already addressed by KT previously. Unusual Abilities. Not by strength.

Frankly I don't trust Viz's TL in the slightest. In the same stretch of chapters they claim Rika is Yuta's Cursed Technique, which is wrong.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

In regards to statements:

Yuta as a character is an unreliable narrator about himself because he is a chronically depressed individual. He, when given the chance, will absolutely put his friends in a superior light than himself because he is kind to a fault.

This is the same person that said that he wanted to be strong like Maki and then proceeded to beat a special grade sorcerer not 5 minutes later.

He admired Inumaki for being a second grade sorcerer while he himself was already in special grade. He then complimented that same Inunaki for his incredibleness right after performing a better version of his own technique.

Thats why when looking at statement of Yuta saying Hakari is stronger and then Maki rebuking that statement of Yuta’s immediately after, I trust Maki’s assessment more because she doesn’t have that kind of humbleness that Yuta does to put his friends in always a better light than himself.

I agree with this sentiment, especially the part about Yuta's vs Maki's appraisals.

In addition, Yuta just has the more impressive portrayal/feats. Barging into the Fatal Four Way match and instantly ending one of them, fighting Kuro with bare CE/RCT, and eventually winning the triple threat match with Uro and Ryo.

Another heavily underappreciated moment is Yuta absolutely submitting Naoya with aura alone. This is the same man who casually stepped to Maki who just squadwiped his whole clan.

Yuta overall has the better ratio of quality/quantity regarding his feats/portrayal so I'm not sure how one could argue Hakari just jumps up to unbeatable levels, especially with Uraume surviving several of his hits/tagging him multiple times.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Frankly I don't trust Viz's TL in the slightest. In the same stretch of chapters they claim Rika is Yuta's Cursed Technique, which is wrong.

Not just that one statement. Kenjaku in Shibuya mentioned about abilities nothing regarding strength. Yuta was weaker than Gojo and suggested to handle Maho and Agito which literally indicates his fighting style is not all based on Strength.

Just fu.cking remove Hakari from the AP justification and end the day. Theres a big room for Hakari VS Yuta and neither of them need to mention each other in their profiles. Yuta can scale just fine to Low 7-C without Hakari

Anyway this is better^

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I have no intention of removing it from the profile. They made it disgustingly clear that Yuta is the second strongest modern day sorcerer and there is no exception to that, sorry.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Ima just ctrl C + ctrl V your sandbox

But fr, don't act like that. You refusing to remove it will just waste the time of everyone

 

[KingTempest]

Frankly I don't trust Viz's TL in the slightest. In the same stretch of chapters they claim Rika is Yuta's Cursed Technique, which is wrong.

That is not wrong in the slightest

 

[KingTempest]

I have no intention of removing it from the profile. They made it disgustingly clear that Yuta is the second strongest modern day sorcerer and there is no exception to that, sorry.

You have yet to find anything that solidly says "Yuta is the second strongest modern day sorcerer"

 

[SunDaGamer]

I'm not even gonna bother with the Hakari scaling debate.
The profile still needs some tweaking elsewhere:

• Accelerated Development is already covered under CE Manip for Sorcerers so it shouldn't have to be listed again
• Extrasensory Perception is for senses beyond the conventional 5 senses so Yuta sharing sight with Rika isn't ESP
• Yuta doesn't have Water powers
• Yuta's abilities from copied techniques should be listed under a "Copied Techniques" tabber
• It should be noted that Yuta needs a condition to copy techniques after JJK 0
• Remove High-Low healing from the Culling Game key, there's no reason why Yuta's RCT would've gotten worse after JJK 0
• the last bullet point in the Culling Game key's abilities is already included in CE Manip
• Yuta's stamina section should mention that he fought Dhruv and Kurorushi then got into a free for all against Uro and Ryu back-to-back, having to expend a lot of his cursed energy on RCT after being hit by the latter three's big moves.
• His intelligence section should mention how he's regarded as a prodigy, learning RCT within a few months which most sorcerers are incapable of and of the few that are, it's even rarer for one to be able to heal others like Yuta can
• Rika's Full Manifestation is what's summoned when Yuta's in his 5 minute mode, Rika's one eye form is more like an Awakening during that manifestation
• Remove the "highest" stuff, it's an abomination
• Yuta's range section needs to specify what stuff has the range ratings, I'd list it as: Standard Melee Range physically, Extended Melee Range with Katana, Tens of Meters with Cursed Energy Blast and Sky Manipulation, Tens to Hundreds of Meters with Cursed Speech (Apparently the human voice can be heard intelligbly from 180 meters away in ideal conditions and Yuta can also use Cursed Speech with a megaphone)

 

[Zabazab]

Yuta was weaker than Gojo and suggested to handle Maho and Agito which literally indicates his fighting style is not all based on Strength.

This isn't that crazy considering the fact that Yuta can deflect blows from Ryu, who's output is the greatest in history. In terms of just CE-enhanced blows, Ryu's would be the strongest. Of course CTs can have greater efficiency of CE usage and thus greater AP than Ryu, but the point stands in this instance.

That is not wrong in the slightest

I can't read Japanese, is this the official fanbook?

It's contradicted by the manga itself which states Yuta's Cursed Technique is Copy, while Rika is what was left to him by Rika Orimoto, which acts as the external storage of Yuta's copied Cursed Techniques.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ima just ctrl C + ctrl V your sandbox

But fr, don't act like that. You refusing to remove it will just waste the time of everyone

No, it won’t. The amount of people who agree that Yuta > JP Hakari is still vastly more than the inverse. It’s not even really close, lol, I have no idea how it’s even contentious. Every single point has been addressed from “it doesn’t account for his JP form”, to “only in unusual abilities”, etc. Yuta has far bigger narrative portrayal.

That is not wrong in the slightest

It actually is, the Japanese rendition of the scene states that Rika is just an external storage of CE, and the very same chapter later goes on to say his true CT is Copy. Attempting to use the fanbook as a counter also ignores its very first pages, saying that it only accommodates things up to Volume 15.

• Accelerated Development is already covered under CE Manip for Sorcerers so it shouldn't have to be listed again
• Extrasensory Perception is for senses beyond the conventional 5 senses so Yuta sharing sight with Rika isn't ESP
• Yuta doesn't have Water powers
• Yuta's abilities from copied techniques should be listed under a "Copied Techniques" tabber
• It should be noted that Yuta needs a condition to copy techniques after JJK 0
• Remove High-Low healing from the Culling Game key, there's no reason why Yuta's RCT would've gotten worse after JJK 0
• the last bullet point in the Culling Game key's abilities is already included in CE Manip
• Yuta's stamina section should mention that he fought Dhruv and Kurorushi then got into a free for all against Uro and Ryu back-to-back, having to expend a lot of his cursed energy on RCT after being hit by the latter three's big moves.
• His intelligence section should mention how he's regarded as a prodigy, learning RCT within a few months which most sorcerers are incapable of and of the few that are, it's even rarer for one to be able to heal others like Yuta can
• Rika's Full Manifestation is what's summoned when Yuta's in his 5 minute mode, Rika's one eye form is more like an Awakening during that manifestation
• Remove the "highest" stuff, it's an abomination
• Yuta's range section needs to specify what stuff has the range ratings, I'd list it as: Standard Melee Range physically, Extended Melee Range with Katana, Tens of Meters with Cursed Energy Blast and Sky Manipulation, Tens to Hundreds of Meters with Cursed Speech (Apparently the human voice can be heard intelligbly from 180 meters away in ideal conditions and Yuta can also use Cursed Speech with a megaphone)

Will address later.

 

[KingTempest]

I can't read Japanese, is this the official fanbook?

Yes

It actually is, the Japanese rendition of the scene states that Rika is just an external storage of CE, and the very same chapter later goes on to say his true CT is Copy. Attempting to use the fanbook as a counter also ignores its very first pages, saying that it only accommodates things up to Volume 15.

It's contradicted by the manga itself which states Yuta's Cursed Technique is Copy, while Rika is what was left to him by Rika Orimoto, which acts as the external storage of Yuta's copied Cursed Techniques.

The manga doesn't say that, a character thinks that. On top of that, Copy is accessed through Rika. So regardless Rika is still tied to his CT, making it not wrong

 

[Lonkitt]

I can’t personally weigh in on how reliable Maki’s claim of “that’s not true” is, but given the supposed intention of that line being written in there, the fact that Yuta is humble, and writer’s statements, then I favour the writer saying Yuta is the second strongest

There’s just more evidence pointing to Yuta being the official second strongest ATM

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This isn't that crazy considering the fact that Yuta can deflect blows from Ryu, who's output is the greatest in history. In terms of just CE-enhanced blows, Ryu's would be the strongest. Of course CTs can have greater efficiency of CE usage and thus greater AP than Ryu, but the point stands in this instance.

You are at this point Contradicting

Output ≠ actual strength.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

The manga doesn't say that, a character thinks that. On top of that, Copy is accessed through Rika. So regardless Rika is still tied to his CT, making it not wrong

No, the narrator in the Japanese outright says Rika is just external CE. An external supply of CT’s.

 

[Zabazab]

Yes

Then as stated above it doesn't apply past Volume 15.

The manga doesn't say that, a character thinks that. On top of that, Copy is accessed through Rika. So regardless Rika is still tied to his CT, making it not wrong

No the narration in Chapter 178 says so. Yuki later backs this up.

Yuta needs Rika to access Copy's collection (since otherwise his brain would blow up) but his CT is still Copy, not Rika.

You are at this point Contradicting

No I'm not, actually. Ryu has greater output than Sukuna or Gojo, but obviously both of them are stronger. They just can't punch as hard as Ryu can (barring Blue-enhanced punch ig).

 

[KingTempest]

Mald

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ryu has greater output than Sukuna or Gojo, but obviously both of them are stronger. They just can't punch as hard as Ryu can (barring Blue-enhanced punch ig).

Mmm, I’m not sure if I agree with this. Remember, the statement only says in the CG. I’m a Yuta fan, but I’m not that big a fan.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When did you got retired?

I can’t personally weigh in on how reliable Maki’s claim of “that’s not true” is, but given the supposed intention of that line being written in there, the fact that Yuta is humble, and writer’s statements, then I favour the writer saying Yuta is the second strongest

There’s just more evidence pointing to Yuta being the official second strongest ATM

Not really I addressed these in here there are other statements puts both at similar level.
There is a difference between being humble and differentiating and specifically stating something. Let's say if Yuta was humble he would have just said Hakari Senpai is stronger than him. Instead goes on far as to say a specific version of his stronger than him. It's clearly far fetched to say Yuta was humble there.

Also you should check this Gojo consistently compared both of them relatively.

I yesterday sent this in discussion thread and I'm gonna post this here. Ignore the glazing by the guy. Just look at the scans. Gojo consistently considered Yuta and Hakari on same level and exceptional.


Also this not accounting to jackpot Hakari as there is nowhere Gojo mentioned Hakari is only exception due to his Technique.

If you need some explanation for those scans here.

they are viewed as relative by Gojo's POV. When considering Gojo's situation, Yuta needs to protect the others. Gojo is aware of the threat they'll face, and he had confidence in Hakari taking care of himself, which required Yuta's level of assistance. Moreover, Gojo explicitly mentioned jumping in on Sukuna if he becomes weaker than any one of them, indicating some relativity between them.

 

[KingTempest]

No I'm not, actually. Ryu has greater output than Sukuna or Gojo, but obviously both of them are stronger. They just can't punch as hard as Ryu can (barring Blue-enhanced punch ig).

This literally makes no sense whatsoever

If Ryu outputs the most energy, then Ryu is the strongest

Whether this refers to his regular strikes or his damn energy cannon, that's different

You can't pick and choose when a statement works. "Second in special abilities" means "second strongest" but "highest output" now doesn't mean "strongest".

 

[M3X_2.0]

I can’t personally weigh in on how reliable Maki’s claim of “that’s not true” is, but given the supposed intention of that line being written in there, the fact that Yuta is humble, and writer’s statements, then I favour the writer saying Yuta is the second strongest

There’s just more evidence pointing to Yuta being the official second strongest ATM

Sorry you’re not staff anymore so get outta here

 

[KingTempest]

Remember, the statement only says in the CG.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_tcb_187_016.png

In HISTORY

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ryu scaling to the fire arrow when

 

[Zabazab]

Mmm, I’m not sure if I agree with this. Remember, the statement only says in the CG. I’m a Yuta fan, but I’m not that big a fan.

I mean Ryu's blast carbonized Yuta's hand tbf. The "greatest output in history" statement comes from Chapter 187 btw.

This literally makes no sense whatsoever

I'm not sure what confused you, Cursed Techniques can have less CE output but result in more AP due to a number of factors like the CT's effect, the efficiency of CE use, etc.

Ryu has > output than say Yorozu, but her Technique can result in (literally infinitely) greater AP.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

In HISTORY

Tis a mistranslation, unfortunately.

(I fell to my knees getting this translated.)

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No I'm not, actually. Ryu has greater output than Sukuna or Gojo, but obviously both of them are stronger. They just can't punch as hard as Ryu can (barring Blue-enhanced punch ig).

Ryu wasn't stated to be Strongest when punching. What TF are you talking now? Can I see the scan for that?

 

[Zabazab]

Tis a mistranslation, unfortunately.

(I fell to my knees getting this translated.)

Agony...

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Tis a mistranslation, unfortunately.

(I fell to my knees getting this translated.)

Well, that shit fix a lot of things

 

[KingTempest]

Tis a mistranslation, unfortunately.

(I fell to my knees getting this translated.)

Yeah this is bullshit, get the raws, because they don't even mention a clan in the context of the conversation

 

[Zabazab]

Ryu wasn't stated to be Strongest when punching. What TF are you talking now? Can I see the scan for that?

Ryu is the only sorcerer with the same CE Output regardless of whether he's activating his Technique.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yeah this is bullshit, get the raws, because they don't even mention a clan in the context of the conversation

The raws are there