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Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade

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Arnoldstone18 said:
something about ^2.5 multiplier. Anyway, I’m neutral. I don’t really care.

Edit: i heard Itadori scales to 1.2 kilotons now so it’s around moon level with black flash based off raising Itadori’s strength by the power of 2.5. ^2.5 is gotten from author on Black Flash
Click to expand...
If you take Jogo’s domain calc and add the 2.5 it’s solar system 10^47 slightly above baseline lmao
 
Confluctor said:
Stick to whatever is consistent and makes more sense. If calcs are more consistent with overall feats, ignore author's statement. Remember when Murata put garou's speed at like supersonic or something thinking it was impressive
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Alright, for now at least we know whatever will be happening will be at Mach 3 or around that ballpark
This is the closest we've got to an actual mention of speed. If he sticks to this, then that'll be a problem going forward
 
Yemma670 said:
Alright, for now at least we know whatever will be happening will be at Mach 3 or around that ballpark
This is the closest we've got to an actual mention of speed. If he sticks to this, then that'll be a problem going forward
Click to expand...
No, that's not how any of this works.
 
I don't even see what's for debate when Gege has never at all been vague with speed. The art is just the art. With pixel scaling, the issue is that:
  • the author isn't drawing with a ruler 📏
  • sometimes there's other limitations like panel size
  • rule of cool. For a lot of street level characters who will never break the sound barrier in their life, stuff like catching, dodging, deflecting bullets is done to make them look cool.

Piercing Blood being a top tier attack in the verse is already proof of this even before the Projection Sorcery shenanigans.

A hypersonic character would never struggle to handle a supersonic attack to the point that they have to make plans, bait it out, and even a 50/50 gamble based on the direction they dodge just to evade a speed of sound attack.

JJK is the verse where throwing a car is considered impressive. While the hax is good, people legit tried to scale the verse up too early.

A lot of the mid-tiers scale to or below Yuji in terms of pure physicals so for the stuff that Yuji struggled with, they would also struggle with.

Yuji:
  • struggled with piercing blood
  • struggled with subsonic Naoya

A lot of characters are downright physically inferior to him so they would be even worse off against both Piercing Blood and Naoya.
 
Piercing Blood has already been discussed 2 times in different threads (One with 2 pages, the other with more than 10). The raw translation of PB says that it is "Faster than sound", and therefore cannot be used to establish something, since no exact number is given
 
Gitagon said:
I don't even see what's for debate when Gege has never at all been vague with speed.
Click to expand...

Which matters not if the subject in question is unreliable based on the world he created and the phenomena existing within it.
Gitagon said:
The art is just the art. With pixel scaling, the issue is that:
Click to expand...
This is about as poignant as me saying "existence is just existence." The art is the literal only representation outside of words that we have and depicts what happens.
Gitagon said:
  • the author isn't drawing with a ruler 📏
Click to expand...
Irrelevant unless you think Gege, as a professional artist, doesn't know about scale.
Gitagon said:
  • rule of cool. For a lot of street level characters who will never break the sound barrier in their life, stuff like catching, dodging, deflecting bullets is done to make them look cool.
Click to expand...
This makes no sense. You proved your own point wrong within this post. You're also determining that the street level character (btw AP and speed have no direct correlation) has to be capped at subsonic, which is more about your interpretation than anything objective.

Similarly, I can just say this same thing applies to Gege's statements. He just said mach 3 because it sounds fast.
Gitagon said:
Piercing Blood being a top tier attack in the verse is already proof of this even before the Projection Sorcery shenanigans.
Click to expand...
Faster than sound, which means no cap. Still doesn't address contradictory feats.
Gitagon said:
A hypersonic character would never struggle to handle a supersonic attack to the point that they have to make plans, bait it out, and even a 50/50 gamble based on the direction they dodge just to evade a speed of sound attack.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and given that characters ranging from mid to top tier have multiple feats of reacting to hypersonic entities, this should tell you what about Gege's statement?
Gitagon said:
JJK is the verse where throwing a car is considered impressive.
Click to expand...
Once again irrelevant.
Gitagon said:
While the hax is good, people legit tried to scale the verse up too early.
Click to expand...
Non sequitur.
Gitagon said:
A lot of the mid-tiers scale to or below Yuji in terms of pure physicals so for the stuff that Yuji struggled with, they would also struggle with.

Yuji:
  • struggled with piercing blood
  • struggled with subsonic Naoya
Click to expand...
Already addressed piercing blood. As for Naoya he has the advantage of having supersonic movement speed while others don't. I can react to a cheetah and other fast animals doesn't mean I won't get overwhelmed by their speed.
Gitagon said:
A lot of characters are downright physically inferior to him so they would be even worse off against both Piercing Blood and Naoya.
Click to expand...
See the differing aspects of speed stats.

I can once again just say that mid tier Maki is also < Yuji and can react to bullets.

Consistency shows that JjK is well above supersonic when it comes to combat and reaction speed.
 
Gitagon said:
rule of cool. For a lot of street level characters who will never break the sound barrier in their life, stuff like catching, dodging, deflecting bullets is done to make them look cool.
Click to expand...
Rule of cool doesn't invalidate feats. In fact, I'd just say that's how it's supposed to be, most of anything in manga, or games, or movies, are done with an intent to be "cool", unless we're talking about genres where action isn't exactly important.
If Dare Devil blocks a bullet, and then does it fifty more times. Yeah it's cool, but he can also just block bullets. Those 50 bullet deflects don't suddenly not happen or count.

Feats can be cool, and still be actual feats. And in cases where the feats can't really be interpreted any other way, even without pixel scaling, that's when you have to take a step back and think, does the author even know what he's talking about or is he just spouting shit because he thinks it makes sense even though it doesn't?

A hypersonic character would never struggle to handle a supersonic attack to the point that they have to make plans, bait it out, and even a 50/50 gamble based on the direction they dodge just to evade a speed of sound attack.
Click to expand...

Not inherently, it depends on the distance (a Hypersonic getting tagged by a mach 1 attack is easily possible if the attacks comes from only only a few inches away for example), it also depends, what they're doing, is it a blindside, are they taken off guard? From behind? Busy dealing with other things at the same time? Etc. And any combination of them. Hell you could be mach 10,000 and get tagged by a normal human just because you were preoccupied or looking away.


I really don't think this is as simple as everyone is making it out to be. At both extremes tbh.
 
Gitagon said:
JJK is the verse where throwing a car is considered impressive
Click to expand...
Ik this is not a AP thread, but

Car level
0128-016.png
 
Lol finally found the thread
It seems straight forward to downgrade instantly but lol.."what about the other feats" would arise
In reference to Hakari i don't think I'm the only one that noticed the Author did not once make Reference to speed in relation to lightning speed
It seemed he didn't Apply Lighting for it's speed but other reasons so that feat can slightly be overlooked with context to Mach 3 statement

Then the other is the bullet feat being fundamentally above Mach 3 which I have no impute on

The Manga has several speed statement of subsonic-soinc Which top Tiers in the verse are relative to then a Mach 3 statement which a top tier isn't is speed blitz by so the constitency still exists

But the main controversy would be the application of Black Flash which jjk fans here would deem unjust if Ur gets overlooked and the speed statement isn't..lol
 
Damage3245 said:
Wouldn't the option that requires less assumptions tend to be better?

A fan-calc, while trying to be as reliable as possible, still has to make some assumptions for it to work.

The manga telling us "This character, Maki, couldn't react properly to a Mach 3 attack" is a lot more direct and has a lot less assumptions involved.
Click to expand...
WHATG?!12?1/!?@?#@? WHAT ABOUT MUH FAN CALC DOOOOD :cry: :cry::cry:
 
Not sure what my stance is now after reading some more arguments, but I gotta ask about the Hakari feat since it was used as an example real quick: Are we sure that's lightning that he dodged? I looked through the evidence and saw nothing that differentiates it from regular electricity.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Not sure what my stance is now after reading some more arguments, but I gotta ask about the Hakari feat since it was used as an example real quick: Are we sure that's lightning that he dodged? I looked through the evidence and saw nothing that differentiates it from regular electricity.
Click to expand...
Yes, Gege specifically states he can use a return stroke mechanic to hit opponents. It also explcitly wualified for several of the sites light ing standard such as causing electrolysis in water, producing a steam explosion in water, and being conducted through metal.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Not sure what my stance is now after reading some more arguments, but I gotta ask about the Hakari feat since it was used as an example real quick: Are we sure that's lightning that he dodged? I looked through the evidence and saw nothing that differentiates it from regular electricity.
Click to expand...
The evidence for it being lightning

1)Its called lightning.

2) It function like cloud-to-ground where it attracts to a positive charge. As lightning is the negative charges in the cloud being attracted to the positive in the ground.

3) it has features of lightning/electricity such numbness/paralysis, electrolysis, electrification.
 
This is much clearer evidence than what I'd seen before, wow

Should be fine then. I think I'm something of a stickler for statements over feats but cases like this are definitely interesting. Especially since we get lightning via the Dr. Stone science advisor and then a few chapters later get a Mach 3 statement. It becomes confusing trying to make sense of what Gege actually intended.

Consider me neutral for now.
 
Gege creates powers that need a double page to explain and calls on mathematicians to explain things to her, but unfortunately she is unable to use Google
 
unknown.png
unknown.png


Kashimo splits the charges of his cursed energy, which is naturally similar to electricity. He transfers the positive charge into his opponent through a physical blow, and discharges the negative charge stored in himself towards his opponent while cancelling the discharge to the ground. this attack is a bolt of lightning that rips through the atmosphere and never misses its mark, without the need for a domain expansion.”
Click to expand...
 
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