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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

The term is self-explanatory, no?

"Refinement" is the measurement of one's proficiency over Barrier Techniques (Ch. 58, pg. 14; Ch. 129, pg. 16; Ch. 206, pg. 7; Ch. 250, pg. 14; Ch. 262, pg. 5), one's visualization and materialization of their Innate Domain (Ch. 119, pg. 2; Ch. 170, pg. 17), and one's efficiency (Ch. 258, pg. 10)—the core components of a Domain Expansion.
These are different ways of manipulating a domain.
Kenny mentions during Gojo vs Sukuna that everyone aside from Gojo and anyone he touches are affected by UV, so this didn't change
Or Gojo just didn't need to selectively target Sukuna. Also, Yuta basically implies his specific targeting came from Gojo's swapping. Then there's Dagon also being able to target specific people in his domain. No reason Gojo can't also do so.
 
What I took from all that is that is that whatever domain "refinement" entails, it isn't some linear scale with no set-limit considering the over 1000-years-alive Kenjaku implies that Yuki engaging in a domain clash with him was a better solution that the one used, even though he rivals Tengen in barrier techniques
What he says is more that it would've been entertaining had she done it not really a better solution. He probably would've enjoyed seeing her surehit or seeing her refinement. He is the type to be intrigued by unknown ct like Takaba's.
 
I cant remember any domain with passive effect other than Unlimited void and Malevolent Kitchen
Dagon released his surehit, Naoya's didn't activate for several seconds, Yorozu's moves her sphere.
Also Hakari's domain. The rules of the game being transferred to the opponent's head

And I think Arkenis just said this
Yorozu seemed to have prevented her sure-hit effect from activating

What makes Unlimited Void particularly lethal is that it takes into effect the exact moment it's activated
 
Or Gojo just didn't need to selectively target Sukuna.
But he needed that in Shibuya, the Prison Realm didn’t do anything to change that because the only thing he got from it was the basketball Domain.
Also, Yuta basically implies his specific targeting came from Gojo's swapping.
Not really, it’s Sukuna who says that. Gojo cannot teach something he isn’t able to do.
 
Not really, it’s Sukuna who says that. Gojo cannot teach something he isn’t able to do.
That's also incorrect. Sukuna says that it's a highly sophisticated use of barriers, and wonders if Yuta was capable of it to begin with

"The hell have y'all been up to this past month?" and Yuta responds like "We cheated lmao"

Later on, Yuta outright says that switch training with Gojo elevated his barrier techniques. So yeah, Gojo's barrier knowledge is most likely why
 
That's also incorrect. Sukuna says that it's a highly sophisticated use of barriers, and wonders if Yuta was capable of it to begin with

"The hell have y'all been up to this past month?" and Yuta says "We cheated lmao"

Later on, Yuta outright says that switch training with Gojo elevated his barrier techniques. So yeah, Gojo's barrier knowledge
It can’t be Gojo’s barrier knowledge because he never changed this conditions. During Sukuna Vs Gojo, Kenjaku says that anything touching Gojo isn’t affected by UV.

Gojo has never shown to be able to select one target of his DE. Otherwise he would’ve won in Shibuya.

What’s incorrect is this headcanon of yours that try to associate three different scenes and statements and make up an explanation.
 
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It can’t be Gojo’s barrier knowledge because he never changed this conditions. During Sukuna Vs Gojo, Kenjaku says that anything touching Gojo isn’t affected by UV.

Gojo has never shown to be able to select one target of his DE. Otherwise he would’ve won in Shibuya.

What’s incorrect is this headcanon of youre that try to associate three different scenes and statements and make up an explanation.
Immediately upon the statement that Yuta is narrowing the target of his domain, his response to Sukuna asking them what they'd been doing for the past month is that "they cheated."

How did they cheat? Switch training. And who did Yuta specifically do switch training with? Gojo. What specific result did it have? It elevated his barrier techniques.

The first hint of switch training is mentioned during the same scene where Yuta is noted to be narrowing the target of his domain.

Just purely off this thought process of questions, this stems from the fact that Yuta did switch training with Gojo, which elevated his barrier techniques. I understand struggling to reconcile Unlimited Void with this idea, but these are in no way unrelated. And I don't think it's so egregious that it can't be explained, especially when the answer could totally be the complex nature of the domain's sure-hit effect.

I find it to be the most reasonable assumption that Yuta learned that from Gojo's barrier knowledge during switch training, given everything points to his advancement in barrier techniques from said switch training being the cause
 
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Immediately upon the statement that Yuta is narrowing the target of his domain, his response to Sukuna asking them what they'd been doing for the past month is that "they cheated."
And then we’re revealed that they all changed souls to engrave techniques on each other bodies. Yuji cheated by having Kusakabe engrave Simple Domain and barrier techniques on his body, and by having Yuta engrave RCT on his body.

Yuta did not get anything from Yuji, and with Gojo he swapped to train the use of Limitless because Gojo agreed to let him take his body. His barrier technique also increased because of Gojo. When Yujo clashes with Malevolent Shrine, it’s Yuta’s mastery there, these things do not stay in the body.

Never even once was stated that Gojo taught that to Yuta, it’s never stated or shown that Gojo even knows how to do it, because he was shown to not be able to.
How did they cheat? Switch training. And who did Yuta specifically do switch training with? Gojo. What specific result did it have? It elevated his barrier techniques.
Read above. You’re saying that Gojo taught him something he can’t do by himself.
Just purely off the thought process of questions, this stems from the fact that Yuta did switch training with Gojo, which elevated his barrier techniques. I understand struggling to reconcile Unlimited Void with this idea, but these are in no way unrelated. And I don't think it's so egregious that it can't be explained, especially when the answer could totally be the complex nature of the domain's sure-hit effect.
I didn’t say anything about any of this. Yuta has this sure-hit selection by default, something he learned alone or someone other than Gojo taught him that.

As it stands right now, Gojo can’t do it.
 
And then we’re revealed that they all changed souls to engrave techniques on each other bodies. Yuji cheated by having Kusakabe engrave Simple Domain and barrier techniques on his body, and by having Yuta engrave RCT on his body.

Yuta did not get anything from Yuji, and with Gojo he swapped to train the use of Limitless because Gojo agreed to let him take his body. His barrier technique also increased because of Gojo. When Yujo clashes with Malevolent Shrine, it’s Yuta’s mastery there, these things do not stay in the body.

Never even once was stated that Gojo taught that to Yuta, it’s never stated or shown that Gojo even knows how to do it, because he was shown to not be able to.

Read above. You’re saying that Gojo taught him something he can’t do by himself.

I didn’t say anything about any of this. Yuta has this sure-hit selection by default, something he learned alone or someone other than Gojo taught him that.

As it stands right now, Gojo can’t do it.
Except nothing points towards Yuta getting that from anyone except Gojo. In all likelyhood, Gojo probably engraved the ability in Yuta by using Mutual Love while in his body
 
Except nothing points towards Yuta getting that from anyone except Gojo. I think it's likely that Gojo engraved the ability by using Mutual Love while in Yuta's body
Gojo does not have this ability to select the target. It’s something he’s not able to do perform.

Why is this so hard to understand? Gojo was shown to not being able to do this. Kenjaku was there to back this up.

Then Gojo gets sealed. He comes back a hundred chapters after that, has a one month period to train and somehow he learned something that has no use to him against Sukuna?
 
Gojo does not have this ability to select the target, something he can’t do it.

Why is this so hard to understand? Gojo was shown to not being able to do this. Kenjaku was there to back this up.

Then Gojo gets sealed. He comes back a hundred chapters after that, has a one month period to train and somehow he learned something that has no use to him against Sukuna?
I just offered you possible explanations based on things that are outright stated. Gojo could have engraved it in Yuta's body while using Mutual Love during switch training

Yeah, it's rooted in assumptions, but it's based on occam's razor not unfounded in actual canon. Besides, Yuta outright says his barrier techniques were elevated because he did switch training with Gojo. There is nothing disputing that because it's the one thing we know for certain. Later on, he is narrowing his sure-hit effect and compressing his barrier. We don't know the exact details, but there are absolutely possible explanations
 
I just offered you possible explanations
based on things that are outright stated. Gojo could have engraved it in Yuta's body by using Mutual Love during switch training
The literal definition of headcanon. Gojo cannot engrave something he didn’t know at that point. Why do you think Gojo knew it and then engraved on Yuta’s body when Gojo himself isn’t able to do it?
Yeah, it's rooted in headcanon, but it's based on occam's razor. Besides, Yuta outright says his barrier techniques were elevated because he did switch training with Gojo. There is nothing disputing that
Not really occam’s razor, it’s not how it works. You’re working with the idea that someone taught this to Yuta. No one in the series was shown to do that. So saying someone taught him that is even more headcanon.

Yuta says his barrier technique increased because he was able to grasp the idea of basketball Domain and perform it, and with better mastery he was able to clash with Malevolent Shrine.

Now pay attention: Your headcanon consists in the idea that Gojo was unsealed, learned how to select the target by himself and then taught that to Yuta. But you don’t consider that Yuta could be able to do that by his own, and the fact that this ability has no use to Gojo. Your headcanon goes around circles and trying to justify that rather than think “yeah Yuta does that by himself”.
 
The literal definition of headcanon. Gojo cannot engrave something he didn’t know at that point. Why do you think Gojo knew it and then engraved on Yuta’s body when Gojo himself isn’t able to do it?

Not really occam’s razor, it’s not how it works. You’re working with the idea that someone taught this to Yuta. No one in the series was shown to do that. So saying someone taught him that is even more headcanon.

Yuta says his barrier technique increased because he was able to grasp the idea of basketball Domain and perform it, and with better mastery he was able to clash with Malevolent Shrine.

Now pay attention: Your headcanon consists in the idea that Gojo was unsealed, learned how to select the target by himself and then taught that to Yuta. But you don’t consider that Yuta could be able to do that by his own, and the fact that this ability has no use to Gojo. Your headcanon goes around circles and trying to justify that rather than think “yeah Yuta does that by himself”.
I just gave you the thought process?

Yuta is shown doing it, Sukuna asks how, and Yuta says they cheated. We learn later on that they "cheated" by doing switch training. Yuta does switch training with Yuji and Gojo, and he could only have elevated his barrier techniques from switch training with the latter specifically. Even if Yuta doesn't know what Sukuna is thinking about specifically, the audience is given this information that way for a reason. Ignoring the lack of exact details and the possible explanations I offered up, it's not headcanon, it's just common f*cking sense based on what we're told

I'm not gonna keep up this debate if you're just gonna repeatedly claim that it's headcanon rather and veering off in one way to a different answer rather than the one that the audience is lead to from the very first chapter that Yuta does it
 
I just gave you the thought process?

Yuta is shown doing it, Sukuna asks how, and Yuta says they cheated. We learn later on that they "cheated" by doing switch training. Yuta does switch training with Yuji and Gojo, and he could only have elevated his barrier techniques from switch training with the latter specifically. Ignoring the lack of exact details and the possible explanations I offered up, it's not headcanon, it's just common f*cking sense based on what we're told
The thing is that you’re trying to associate statements that don’t relate to each other. Yuta saying they cheated relates to a bunch of things like their reinforcement, soul punches and Yuji’s RCT.

Your thought process is: Gojo gets unsealed - Learns how to select a target of sure hit (despite this being a very useless skill to him in the context) - Teaches that to Yuta

Rather than thinking Yuta learned that by himself.
 
At best, Gojo didn't know he could do it due to how his sure-hit works but with Yuta's sure-hit being less complex it was noticeable for him and easier to apply.
 
The thing is that you’re trying to associate statements that don’t relate to each other. Yuta saying they cheated relates to a bunch of things like their reinforcement, soul punches and Yuji’s RCT.

Your thought process is: Gojo gets unsealed - Learns how to select a target of sure hit (despite this being a very useless skill to him in the context) - Teaches that to Yuta

Rather than thinking Yuta learned that by himself.
And it also relates to Yuta being able to narrow his domain's target. That's not just an assumption, that's literally the answer we're given
 
At best, Gojo didn't know he could do it due to how his sure-hit works but with Yuta's sure-hit being less complex it was noticeable for him and easier to apply.
I've offered up this as a possible explanation, but he immediately shoots it down as just headcanon. So I don't understand why he refuses to take Yuta's outright answer to a question for the audience to wonder about

Cognitive dissonance ig
 
It could be another example of Yuta being more blessed than Gojo I guess? Idk, just seems off Gojo's showing us he can control the size to a crazy extent and match Sukuna's domain, a barrier-less one, but Yuta's got a more sophisticated barrier technique application this specific.
 
It could be another example of Yuta being more blessed than Gojo I guess? Idk, just seems off Gojo's showing us he can control the size to a crazy extent and match Sukuna's domain, a barrier-less one, but Yuta's got a more sophisticated barrier technique application this specific.
In-universe, that isn't out of question. But out of universe, we're given this information and the answer is given immediately after. "We f*cking cheated lmao"

Also, using M3x's logic, that statement isn't related to Yuta being able to do it, while his switch training with Gojo is
 
I've offered up this as a possible explanation, but he immediately shoots it down as just headcanon. So I don't understand why he refuses to take Yuta's outright answer to a question for the audience to wonder about

Cognitive dissonance ig
Because it’s not even an answer dude, you’re trying to relate two different statements.

Yuta says his barrier mastery increased because he’s able to clash with Malevolent Shrine. It had nothing to do with selecting the target.

Again, so maybe your ignorant ass can understand: Gojo is not able to perform this trick. Gojo cannot select one target of his sure hit. Gojo does not have this ability.

Can you understand this now? Hello? Basic reading comprehension?

Why would Gojo learn this just so he can teach that to Yuta? Why couldn’t Yuta just practice that in one month with increased barrier techniques from Gojo?

If you say “Yuta learned this because his barrier mastery increased with Gojo” it would’ve been fine because it doesn’t ignore the fact that Gojo doesn’t know it and the fact that Gojo increased Yuta’s barrier mastery.

So get your ignorant ass back to reading please.
 
Ultimately I blame Gege for making domain refinement all over the place. Not to say its bad but it definitely is random he picks some characters doing stuff then not for others but makes a feat insane for another then just drops "oh yeah Hakari can switch his coordinates dozens of meters". Just like, why didn't we see these applications more in Gojo vs Sukuna, the pinnacle of domain battles lmao.
 
Because it’s not even an answer dude, you’re trying to relate two different statements.

Yuta says his barrier mastery increased because he’s able to clash with Malevolent Shrine. It had nothing to do with selecting the target.
First of all, they're two statements about switch training, so thinking that they're completely removed from each other's context is asinine. Second of all, how tf is it not an answer? It's asked how he's able to do it, and he immediately gives the answer, which is then elaborated on later to be switch training

Also, I'm referring to "We cheated" being the actual given answer as to how Yuta is able to narrow his domain's target in that message, so I don't even know why you're bringing this up here and now

We should just agree to disagree, because neither of is changing our stances based on what we each believe to be the most reasonable explanation
 
Two statements about switch training
And they don’t relate to each other because they’re about two different things.

One is about cheating in the sense of getting new abilities that otherwise would’ve take years to accomplish.

The other is about Gojo improving an already existing ability from Yuta.
Also, I'm referring to the answer as to how Yuta is able to narrow his domain's target in that message, so I don't even know why you're bringing this up here and now
It was never an answer. You’re acting all over the top thinking it is and saying this shit is not headcanon.
We should just agree to disagree, because neither of is changing our stances based on what we believe to be the most reasonable explanations
I should’ve done this ages ago because apparently a character teaching something he doesn’t know to the other apparently is not headcanon anymore.
 
I should’ve done this ages ago because apparently a character teaching something he doesn’t know to the other apparently is not headcanon anymore.
I mean Gojo can't teach period, the training was for them to develop the abilities like Yuji with Sukuna.

So while I think its unsure exactly if Gojo was why Yuta developed the barrier technique, its completely in line with what the training was meant for.
mUc5mft.png
 
I mean Gojo can't teach period, the training was for them to develop the abilities like Yuji with Sukuna.

So while I think its unsure exactly if Gojo was why Yuta developed the barrier technique, its completely in line with what the training was meant for.
mUc5mft.png
I’m not denying that. I’m denying the idea that Gojo taught him this specific ability, which he cannot do himself.

You can say that thanks to Gojo’s barrier training, Yuta was able to accomplish that trick himself.
 
 
Also I've got this for the domains so far
Also just like with the thread you linked above, what about tiers for this? Characters like Tengen and Kenjaku in the highest one, then Sukuna and Gojo, then Yuta, then idk who else. This would define who would win against who in a domain fight I think.
 
Also just like with the thread you linked above, what about tiers for this? Characters like Tengen and Kenjaku in the highest one, then Sukuna and Gojo, then Yuta, then idk who else. This would define who would win against who in a domain fight I think.
I want tiers removed. And barrier refinement is similarly too inconsistent to concretely say a group of characters can all do the same thing honestly. You pretty much just showed us by Gojo not having the barrier technique Yuta has, Sukuna thinking its very sophisticated, Hakari being the only one to show coordinates changing. Its all just very character based except for mainly Kenjaku and Tengen I'd say.
 
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