Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[M3X_2.0]

Also I've got this for the domains so far

Also just like with the thread you linked above, what about tiers for this? Characters like Tengen and Kenjaku in the highest one, then Sukuna and Gojo, then Yuta, then idk who else. This would define who would win against who in a domain fight I think.

 

[Arkenis]

Also just like with the thread you linked above, what about tiers for this? Characters like Tengen and Kenjaku in the highest one, then Sukuna and Gojo, then Yuta, then idk who else. This would define who would win against who in a domain fight I think.

I want tiers removed. And barrier refinement is similarly too inconsistent to concretely say a group of characters can all do the same thing honestly. You pretty much just showed us by Gojo not having the barrier technique Yuta has, Sukuna thinking its very sophisticated, Hakari being the only one to show coordinates changing. Its all just very character based except for mainly Kenjaku and Tengen I'd say.

 

[Arkenis]

Also could u get some mods to see that crt? Its pretty old but I just need a couple more mods

 

[Yasuda_144]

Alright, think I got solid scaling now.

Arkenis/sandboxMCBJJK

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't actually recall any statements if FRS Stacked being a 2x multiplier. It seems kinda out of place in a manga that otherwise hypes up even 1.2x boosts as being a big deal, given it's never been portrayed as a particularly crazy technique.

 

[Arkenis]

I don't actually recall any statements if FRS Stacked being a 2x multiplier.

STACKED. It is literally frs being stacked.

 

[Yasuda_144]

"Stacked" just means the amp is being applied twice. Like if it's a 1.2x amp, then Stacked would be about a 1.44x amp (1.2 squared).

 

[M3X_2.0]

What lmao

 

[Arkenis]

"Stacked" just means the amp is being applied twice. Like if it's a 1.2x amp, then Stacked would be about a 1.44x amp (1.2 squared).

What???

 

[Yasuda_144]

For the sake of argument, let's say that Flowing Red Scale enhances your physical strength by a given amount (I picked 20% as an arbitrary figure because Gege's really obsessed with that percentage for some reason and it's probably what he's say the boost is if asked)

FRS Stacked applies that same boost to a body that's already boosted, in this example 120% to what's already 120% of your physical strength, which would add up to 144%. Admittedly this isn't exactly stated in the manga but I dunno what else "stacking" a technique that increases your stats would even mean. Who knows, Gege probably just thought the word "stacked" sounds cool.

 

[Giannysmag]

Who knows, Gege probably just thought the word "stacked" sounds cool.

It's literally just this lol

 

[M3X_2.0]

Let’s say base Choso has 10tons of AP

FRS amps his 2x, so he gets 20tons

He is stacking FRS so it’s just the 2x boost again on top of the 20tons AP

That’s the logic.

 

[Yasuda_144]

It would be a 2x boost if it directly multiplied physical strength like Kaioken or something, but it explicitly doesn't do that. It works like real life blood doping only exaggerated in effect. "Base" Flowing Red Scale doesn't have any statements regarding how potent it is.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It was an example.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Yeah, but that example doesn't prove that Stacked is a 2x boost, because it doesn't multiply strength directly, it multiplies the effectiveness of an amp that itself isn't quantifiable

 

[M3X_2.0]

I’m not interested in proving anything. I was explaining the logic behind Arkenis’ thought process.

 

[Arkenis]

Then it would look like this.

• Flowing Red Scale would make Kamo 24.4 Tons of tnt
• Flowing Red Scale Stacked would make Kamo 36.6 Tons of tnt
• Flowing Red Scale would make Choso 69.46 Tons of tnt. Choso scaling above Mechmaru's cannon in base and then having FS.
• Flowing Red Scale Stacked would make Choso 104.19 Tons of tnt. Choso scaling above Mechmaru's cannon in base and then having FSS.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Save the 8-A JJK, Mechamaru…

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah, but that example doesn't prove that Stacked is a 2x boost, because it doesn't multiply strength directly, it multiplies the effectiveness of an amp that itself isn't quantifiable

Megumi says Kamo gets a whole another level stronger when he does it. Whats the absurdity or jump in assuming its multiplication?

 

[Yasuda_144]

Nanami going from 80-90% to 110-120% of his output was also portrayed as a "a whole other level" of strength. Kamo didn't even stomp Megumi in physicals, when on the other hand a 2x boost made Mahito able to treat Yuji like an ant. Also, it's not necessarily matter of it being too large of an amp, it's a matter of the mechanic of the amp itself not probably resulting in that level of increase.

 

[Arkenis]

Nanami going from 80-90% to 110-120% of his output was also portrayed as a "a whole other level" of strength.

Kamo's is stated, Nanami's isn't.

 

[Yasuda_144]

When is it ever states Flowing Red Scale doubles your physical strength like it's the Kaioken? And again, a 2x difference in physicals in JJK means the weaker opponent can't even damage the stronger one

 

[Yasuda_144]

Hell, the difference between Totality (severely maims people like Reggie Star who's comparable to Megumi physically with ease) and a single Divine Dog (basically the Ten Shadows equivalent of a Raticate) is described as just being the combined power of two Divine Dogs, ie a 2x amp.

JJK consistently treats 2x power differences as massive, and it also consistently treats "small" power increases as significant (the constant repeating of the 120% figure)

 

[Arkenis]

When is it ever states Flowing Red Scale doubles your physical strength like it's the Kaioken? And again, a 2x difference in physicals in JJK means the weaker opponent can't even damage the stronger one

Didn't say double. I'm going with the bare minimum another level would be 2x. A 2x diff isn't always the same just because it's 2x. 10*2 is 20 but 40*2 is 80, the hit is gonna be stronger compared to the weaker 20 for the characters, also characters have diff durability so an attack could just be weaker even with the amp.

 

[Arkenis]

JJK consistently treats 2x power differences as massive, and it also consistently treats "small" power increases as significant (the constant repeating of the 120% figure)

It really doesn't. The main example is Red, which is 2x the output of Blue. Nanami's ot doesn't actually seem like any massive amp, when he fought Mahito he was always able to break his body parts, and when in ot he does it again.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Didn't say double. I'm going with the bare minimum another level would be 2x. A 2x diff isn't always the same just because it's 2x. 10*2 is 20 but 40*2 is 80, the hit is gonna be stronger compared to the weaker 20 for the characters, also characters have diff durability so an attack could just be weaker even with the amp.

It doesn't work that way though. "Another level" and "2x stronger" are completely different statements. Hell, in real life terms having like 15-20% more muscle mass than your opponent qualifies as "another level" of strength.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Didn't Megumi also said that Kamo wasn't using his all after sometime

 

[Yasuda_144]

It really doesn't. The main example is Red, which is 2x the output of Blue. Nanami's ot doesn't actually seem like any massive amp, when he fought Mahito he was always able to break his body parts, and when in ot he does it again.

Red inflicts devestating damage to Sukuna, who can withstand Blue with much more ease. A 2x power increase made Mahito completely no-sell Yuji's attacks and allowed him to make him cough up blood with casual strikes. A 2x increase allows Totality to borderline one shot somebody who's capable of dealing with Megumi's other shikigami. By contrast Kamo isn't overwhelmed by Megumi in hand to hand combat, neither does FRS allow him to overwhelm him once activated.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Didn't Megumi also said that Kamo wasn't using his all after sometime

He says that in reference to seeing Piercing Blood in use.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

He says that in reference to seeing Piercing Blood in use.

Yeah, it can still be used as a support argument since Kamo def wasn't trying to kill Megumi

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Red inflicts devestating damage to Sukuna, who can withstand Blue with much more ease.

Red is stated to have a output greater than 2x. Not only that, but Red scales to Divine Flames currently, making it more than 4x stronger

A 2x power increase made Mahito completely no-sell Yuji's attacks and allowed him to make him cough up blood with casual strikes.

He was just surprisely more durable. Itadori could tank his attacks and even fight him for awhile (He was weakened by Gege words and could have done better, but the difference is probably not much)

A 2x increase allows Totality to borderline one shot somebody who's capable of dealing with Megumi's other shikigami.

You mean Reggie? Reggie didn't damaged many Shikigamis other than some rabbits and the Divine Dog itself
If you mean Finger Bearer, it was a amp of the domain + piercing damage + shikigami+ offguard attack

 

[Arkenis]

It doesn't work that way though. "Another level" and "2x stronger" are completely different statements. Hell, in real life terms having like 15-20% more muscle mass than your opponent qualifies as "another level" of strength.

We aren't in the real world. Another level is another level, not 15-20%.

A 2x power increase made Mahito completely no-sell Yuji's attacks and allowed him to make him cough up blood with casual strikes.

So?

By contrast Kamo isn't overwhelmed by Megumi in hand to hand combat, neither does FRS allow him to overwhelm him once activated.

It does though. Upon using it he breaks Megumi's weapons. He unironically overwhelmed Megumi and would've kept on.

A 2x increase allows Totality to borderline one shot somebody who's capable of dealing with Megumi's other shikigami.

Okay this is ignoring context, Divine dog snuck the finger beaer with that attack.

 

[Arkenis]

think

Ask Aberdeen to calc the size, its in 213

 

[Yasuda_144]

We aren't in the real world. Another level is another level, not 15-20%

I'm just pointing out that the vast majority of powerscalers severely underestimate low impactful "small" power gaps are, whereas if anything, Gege "120% Potential" Akutami overhypes them in several instances.

Also, there's absolutely no precedent in the least on the entire wiki for "another level" arbitrarily being given a 2x multiplier out of nowhere. Not a bit.

 

[Yasuda_144]

Also, I wasn't taking about the Finger Bearer, I was talking about Reggie Star, the guy who can take Max Elephant (itself significantly stronger than most of Megumi's other shikigami) falling directly on his ass and come out with only a fractured tibula. By contrast, excepting the beginning of the fight where Megumi was explicitly holding back, Totality straight up shreds his body like it's made of tissue paper.

 

[Arkenis]

Also, I wasn't taking about the Finger Bearer, I was talking about Reggie Star, the guy who can take Max Elephant (itself significantly stronger than most of Megumi's other shikigami) falling directly on his ass and come out with only a fractured tibula. By contrast, excepting the beginning of the fight where Megumi was explicitly holding back, Totality straight up shreds his body like it's made of tissue paper.

But these feats are different? Divine dog snuck Reggie after he fought Megumi and was injured already,

 

[Yasuda_144]

As another note, I don't get why FRS Stacked Choso scales above Yuji when they were almost completely even, hell if anything Yuji had a slight advantage in terms of raw strength. I also don't know the exact reasoning of base Choso scaling above 1 Year Mechamaru. It's not implausible, but iirc the only statements are that 5 Year Mechamaru is on par with a Special Grade Sorcerer and Mahito has a feat of taking a 1 Year Blast without much damage (them being completely useless altogether is cause of Idle Transfiguration regen, so he doesn't necessarily upscale by a large amount).

 

[Arkenis]

As another note, I don't get why FRS Stacked Choso scales above Yuji when they were almost completely even, hell if anything Yuji had a slight advantage in terms of raw strength. I also don't know the exact reasoning of base Choso scaling above 1 Year Mechamaru. It's not implausible, but iirc the only statements are that 5 Year Mechamaru is on par with a Special Grade Sorcerer and Mahito has a feat of taking a 1 Year Blast without much damage (them being completely useless altogether is cause of Idle Transfiguration regen, so he doesn't necessarily upscale by a large amount).

When did I say Choso was above Yuji? I said 1 year Mech not 5 year.

 

[Yasuda_144]

When did I say Choso was above Yuji? I said 1 year Mech not 5 year.

You put Shibuya Yuji in the 69.46 Ton category whereas Choso is 1.5x above that value. 1 Year Mechamaru doesn't have any direct scaling to base Choso either way. FRS Choso can trade blows with Yuji who's comparable to Mahito, but by your interpretation FRS is 2x Choso's base physicals.

 

[Arkenis]

You put Shibuya Yuji in the 69.46 Ton category whereas Choso is 1.5x above that value.

I’ll reread the fight but I remember Yuji being significantly weaker and getting his shoulder broken from a chop.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Then it would look like this.

• Flowing Red Scale would make Kamo 24.4 Tons of tnt
• Flowing Red Scale Stacked would make Kamo 36.6 Tons of tnt
• Flowing Red Scale would make Choso 69.46 Tons of tnt. Choso scaling above Mechmaru's cannon in base and then having FS.
• Flowing Red Scale Stacked would make Choso 104.19 Tons of tnt. Choso scaling above Mechmaru's cannon in base and then having FSS.

IIRC. I'm pretty sure Kamo doesn't have FRSS. He only has FRS