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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Gokukid2005 said:
That's what I'm saying?
He "teleported" to Sukuna quickly by compressing the space between them.
This was something we the viewer knew he could do but didn't have an explanation until this chapter in which he was unable to use his CT.
Then at the very end of the chapter he regains his CT and suddenly moves fast enough for Sukuna to point it out and you think it wasn't him using blue?
Click to expand...
No? You're arguing it was speed which is completely baseless. Gege retconned it long ago to being teleportation, NOT speed. It's why Hakari mentions "can't he get enough fast enough?" and Kusakabe goes ON to explicitly refuse what he said about what Blue's teleportation IS.


Kusakabe DOES refute that notion of blue's teleportation application being supposedly speed.
LITERALLY.

Hakari:「伏魔御廚子」の最大効果範囲が渋谷の更地と仮定しても五条さんのスピードならすぐに抜け出せる！！



Kusakabe: いや　アイツの瞬間移動は無下限呪術を使った空間と座標の圧縮だ




Hakari: "Even if Malevolent Shrine's max radius is about as wide as Shibuya, Gojo-san should move fast enough to get away!"
This is in reference to Blue. That's why Kusakabe talks about teleportation because he understands what Hakari was talking about, but decided to correct him.

Kusakabe: "Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless sorcery to compress space and coordinates."*
This is Gege's subtle way of retconning the previously undecided "hmm is it speed or teleportation" (He literally talked multiple times about how he thinks he half assed his explanation about limitless and was unsure. That's why somewhere around vol. 13 or 14 he decided to seek help: Which is where T-San comes in. And Gege proceeds to yoink the explanation he gave

0129-018.png

It does, because it's explained in a similar way to how Kusakabe explains it.

"Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless Cursed Technique (Blue) to compress space and coordinates."*

T-San: "You could cast the visible scale to a point at infinity... Like compressing space or viewing it with stereographic projection. For example, we're about one meter apart right now, but... If you were to view these two points from a great distance.."
"Gege: OH! They overlap!"
T-San:"It's like zooming out with a camera but taken to the extreme and applied to space, thereby bringing two points together (Attraction)"


That's why I'm telling you that you're wrong.


Gokukid2005 said:
Sukuna and especially Gojo are the last people you can expect to get CE control nerfs when they experience burnout.
But even if he did get said nerf, Sukuna was not only unaffected as he didn't have burnout but he also had a domain amp, yet he was still somehow caught off guard by the speed.
That just would not be possible seeing how closely they are stats wise and the only explanation would be Gojo using blue to zip over to him like he's done multiple times.
Click to expand...
😭 This is just nonsense. We still see the very same god tiers get cooked by a ct burnout. Arguing that they won't get that nerf is just nonsense when even they cannot use their CT. So YES they do get that nerf. It is BLATANTLY part of their brain that gets a burnout. You gonna argue losing limbs don't affect your output either now because they're the "last people you'd expect"? Prove it or drop it.

? That is very much possible. If I see you hold back twice on your attacks (Purple. Gojo did not use full incantation set for blue and red. He only used one part of it. If he used the others he would have gotten far beyond 200%, reaching "Unlimited Hollow Purple" and above the normal one which the latter in chapter 235 reached that through the full incantation. Even without that, gojo could have also casted a domain expansion after teleporting and win the fight RIGHT there. We already saw a instance where Sukuna couldn't keep up in the domain battle at chapter 229 due to being a tiny bit slower.

Second purple: Sukuna explicitly states that a gojo who is relative to him whilst they're both brain damaged can KILL him with the 100% purple at a close distance, and this was for a gojo that had a brain damage centered on his CT. Sukuna's brain damage was centered on the barrier technique part. This is stated in chapter 231, specifically the barrier part. For gojo's brain damage location, it was stated in chapter 230. Tells you more than enough that Gojo's CT was suffering far worse nerf. Infact his nerf in overall output might be worse than Sukuna's since even a CT burnout nerf screws you over in CE control, but I won't be going for that and will stick to the CT heavily nerfed one. And yet Sukuna thinks 100% purple at a close distance as they are right now is getting him finished with no exception made to the likes of DA being there or whatever else. But Sukuna somehow survived without fatal injuries from a far beyond 100% purple at a close distance + several black flash amp gojo, whereas Mahoraga who was relative to Sukuna in stats, or at the same ballpark, as implied by gojo, got completely erased alongside the wheel.
0234-016.png


I wonder why Sukuna got away like that....

The answer is he adjusted the target technique (We've seen him control purple twice anyways with basic size manipulation. Against toji, he fired purple and it was a small ball. After it hit toji it expanded in size as the context heavily implies. Even the volume release shows the same thing and so does the Anime. So very intentional. And it shows gojo can control purple even when creating it, or when firing it he can adjust or do something else to it mid fire. Just like he can do with blue and red as we blatantly see in the Gojo vs Sukuna fight. Neutral Infinity also has a target technique as stated by gojo in the 1 year time skip post toji fight [Chapter 76. It's in the nanami says tumblr translation blog which corrects things from Viz] and fanbook says the same thing for blue. The raws also say the same thing for blue IN chapter 235 when it talks about "target" and we've seen very blatant examples of how blue can pull only one person or the surrounding environment.

Gojo can also somewhat use red in multiple ways kinda if we compare them to many different examples of usage in the series to eachother and how they work.) against Sukuna. Whilst he did make the purple fire in all directions, he did also make the purple's target technique to target Sukuna more specifically, adjusting its power as the context heavily implies to us from what I've shown from the Manga. It's not really the first time someone can do this - Sukuna heavily implies in chapter 236 that he CAN also adjust his target technique to a person. Meaning the act of Gojo doing the same for purple isn't really anything new.

Now for other instances: Gojo in chapter 229 as Sukuna has lost the domain battle, says that he'll bring Sukuna closer to death. This tells us he doesn't want to kill Sukuna, which is obvious given, given that Gojo's and the Jujutsu High gang's mission IS to literally save Megumi. Killing Sukuna is detrimental to that as it would KILL megumi. We know this because we've been told multiple times that if you kill X person, the vessel also dies, and vice versa. Ik you're thinking of bringing up chapter 224 where gojo says "I'll kill you". But that's literally gojo JOKING as the context above from what I explained entails, especially given how gojo literally does joke "special training" "looks like him" etc + can't kill otherwise megumi dies.




Besides, we know gojo further to WHY gojo isn't serious there. Character wise, gojo has been shown twice to say something on the outside but think differently from the inside:

0221-017.png

0052-017.png


So this wouldn't be out of character anyways since we literally do see him think differently than what he said (Compare chapter 224 to chapter 229 gojo talking about killing/bringing closer to death)
Now what actually does explicitly prove that Gojo wasn't being truthful there - Is how nobody reacted and questioned gojo for saying this in chapter 224. BUT they DO actually doubt when a cheerful gojo says AGAIN he'll kill Sukuna.
0231-019.png


Shishiso TL:



Pretty much confirming that Gojo was lying. Tl;dr gojo never had any killing intent towards Sukuna and has shown multiple times to hold back as I've shown. Infact even in chapter 229, gojo does not use red or blue but opts to go ahead and give Sukuna a beating instead with his hands when Sukuna was incapacitated BY Unlimited Void's sure hits, despite being very much capable of spamming his CT as even teen gojo post awakening tells us as much.
0076-010.png

"Simultaneously activating Multiple Reds and Blues respectively is coming along as well" - Teen gojo.
We can even confirm this real quick.
0052-012.png

0052-013.png

Hands in his pockets and he's manifesting about like 4-6 blue casually towards a fodder with his hands in his pockets.
0232-003.png

0232-004.png

CT-brain damage nerf Gojo can do this.

0233-018.png

Does a quick red against mf's that are at the very worst close to Sukuna's physicals (Mahoraga confirmed to be on the ballpark as Sukuna anyways. Feats even support this) despite suffering from CT-nerfed brain damage.

0234-015.png

0234-016.png

0234-017.png

That very same gojo with CT nerf but with one arm just newly gone from being World Slashed, (which is a very significant output nerf. See Naobito and Hana. Their CT got nerfed as well) literally and very quickly pulled off a maximum blue output after being ganged up on by both Mahoraga and Sukuna, and the latter two, despite the CE spark, could not move up in time and intercept and stop gojo from finishing off Agito. Oh by the way, gojo in this nerfed state can pull up maximum blue output punches.

Now that I've established even further as to why gojo IS holding back the first round (Can't speak much for the second round since he's far more nerfed, so he's very much trying here this time. Though he very explicitly did nerf his second hollow purple, meaning he held back in his finishing move.)

Let's go back to their first round:
Gojo does not at any point use red against Sukuna himself in the first round (Chapter 224-230) bar the first domain battle. And IN the instance he did use it, that was:
1. Gojo was already wounded everywhere and hadn't been using rct for couple of moments despite the big blood loss. His one eye is also damaged from the slash.
0226-018.png


2. Sukuna was domain amped whereas Gojo was not.
3. It's stated that domains have a buff and debuff effect. We even see such instance with a simple domain, which is inferior to DA (Domain Amplification). Kusakabe uses SD and explains as to how his output is higher now and Sukuna's techniques are weaker inside his "domain"


The order of scaling goes: DE Buff and Debuff effect > DA buff and debuff > SD buff and debuff.
You could also argue that the debuff mentioned, IS perhaps also correlating to stats, and not just CT, given how a domain buff DOES also encompass stats. And your own CT DOES get stronger inside your domain. So the opposite of a domain buff, which would be Domain debuff, could affect the enemy's stats and CT. But shrug. Up to you.
https://x.com/lightningclare/status/1774530609144361178


Here is the scan in question.
This is why Gojo used red.

But he never ever uses it again. Only when Mahoraga pops up does he go on to use it. It's not that Gojo can't use it is mid battle - because we see him literally do that TWICE. does it quickly against Agito & Mahoraga + Sukuna teaming up against him in chapter 233.
Does it against Sukuna again in chapter 232. Those two instances are under a CT brain damage nerf.
In chapter 226: He did it whilst being damaged with even his right eye being somewhat damaged, non domain amped, DE debuffed whilst being inside Sukuna's DE, with his CT nerfed and he perhaps might also be further stats nerfed by being inside his domain. It's just that Gojo holds back. The other domain battles further confirms this as Sukuna in chapter 232, despite using DA against Gojo in their other domain battles, heavily implies that this is his first time using DA to take on red, meaning that Gojo never used it again. And yet:

Gojo with just one punch near the end of their domain battle in chapter 228 does this:
0228-010.png


Piercing through his chest with a punch.
In chapter 229 before their last domain battle he does this:
0229-008.png

The panel after this:

0229-009.png

This is not red (I've went over this before. But you can see the difference. This isn't a burnt face but a face with the skin and more torn apart) Heavily implied to be gojo tearing his face with his hands.

0229-013.png

This is a callback to chapter 228, heavily implying that Gojo did indeed do it with one punch at that time, and he does it again in chapter 229.


Doesn't go for red or a maximum output blue to finish him off. Infact he could even go for a quick purple too given how good he is at it.

Hell, in chapter 235, near the end, we see as to how slow both Sukuna and Mahoraga becomes as blue and red are about to merge. They're not even able to quickly move further away as blue and red is about to merge, neither is Sukuna going back to the shadows or desummoning Mahoraga so that the latter doesn't get killed by the incoming purple. But no. It shows that Gojo is quick at the merging process of blue and red, despite it being his first time doing a roundabout way of firing purple + unleashing it in all directions and this was with gojo, as I've said so many times now, under CT-Brain damage nerf.
So he could have gone for a purple right after Sukuna's DE collapsed and fire it away, which could potentially even catch Mahoraga in process as the latter ONLY manifested when it completed the adaptation. Or red that is stronger than the quick fire version, which would kill Mahoraga anyways as gojo fires it away and it hits Mahoraga in the process. But despite all of these options, which would kill Sukuna if he did, he went for bringing Sukuna closer to death in order to incapacitate him (alongside the information overload that will get Sukuna incapacitated enough)

So no. Your explanation for why it is blue that Gojo used, is blatantly wrong. The fact that Yuta as I've stated, DID not comment or react on Gojo using his CT, Blue, as you've claimed, BUT does REACT when Gojo goes to lean back and start pointing his finger towards Sukuna, tells me more than enough that Gojo did not use blue. Infact there's even a blatant speed feat there.

First off: I've already said gojo is nerfed there in many ways in chapter 226. He did lose the ct burnout nerf but he's still affected by other ""debuffs"". So let's get into the feat:
Gojo's output spikes up and he gets faster, surprising even Sukuna as he latches onto him. Whilst doing this, Gojo prepares his red, and then goes on to lean back, brings his finger forward to point it at Sukuna, whilst his left arm latches into his right arm, aka Yusuke's spirit gun signature. Then he says red and fires it..
 
Last edited:
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
No? You're arguing it was speed which is completely baseless. Gege retconned it long ago to being teleportation, NOT speed. It's why Hakari mentions "can't he get enough fast enough?" and Kusakabe goes ON to explicitly refuse what he said about what Blue's teleportation IS.


Kusakabe DOES refute that notion of blue's teleportation application being supposedly speed.
LITERALLY.

Hakari:「伏魔御廚子」の最大効果範囲が渋谷の更地と仮定しても五条さんのスピードならすぐに抜け出せる！！



Kusakabe: いや　アイツの瞬間移動は無下限呪術を使った空間と座標の圧縮だ




Hakari: "Even if Malevolent Shrine's max radius is about as wide as Shibuya, Gojo-san should move fast enough to get away!"
This is in reference to Blue. That's why Kusakabe talks about teleportation because he understands what Hakari was talking about, but decided to correct him.

Kusakabe: "Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless sorcery to compress space and coordinates."*
This is Gege's subtle way of retconning the previously undecided "hmm is it speed or teleportation" (He literally talked multiple times about how he thinks he half assed his explanation about limitless and was unsure. That's why somewhere around vol. 13 or 14 he decided to seek help: Which is where T-San comes in. And Gege proceeds to yoink the explanation he gave

0129-018.png

It does, because it's explained in a similar way to how Kusakabe explains it.

"Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless Cursed Technique (Blue) to compress space and coordinates."*

T-San: "You could cast the visible scale to a point at infinity... Like compressing space or viewing it with stereographic projection. For example, we're about one meter apart right now, but... If you were to view these two points from a great distance.."
"Gege: OH! They overlap!"
T-San:"It's like zooming out with a camera but taken to the extreme and applied to space, thereby bringing two points together (Attraction)"


That's why I'm telling you that you're wrong.



😭 This is just nonsense. We still see the very same god tiers get cooked by a ct burnout. Arguing that they won't get that nerf is just nonsense when even they cannot use their CT. So YES they do get that nerf. It is BLATANTLY part of their brain that gets a burnout. You gonna argue losing limbs don't affect your output either now because they're the "last people you'd expect"? Prove it or drop it.

? That is very much possible. If I see you hold back twice on your attacks (Purple. Gojo did not use full incantation set for blue and red. He only used one part of it. If he used the others he would have gotten far beyond 200%, reaching "Unlimited Hollow Purple" and above the normal one which the latter in chapter 235 reached that through the full incantation. Even without that, gojo could have also casted a domain expansion after teleporting and win the fight RIGHT there. We already saw a instance where Sukuna couldn't keep up in the domain battle at chapter 229 due to being a tiny bit slower.

Second purple: Sukuna explicitly states that a gojo who is relative to him whilst they're both brain damaged can KILL him with the 100% purple at a close distance, and this was for a gojo that had a brain damage centered on his CT. Sukuna's brain damage was centered on the barrier technique part. This is stated in chapter 231, specifically the barrier part. For gojo's brain damage location, it was stated in chapter 230. Tells you more than enough that Gojo's CT was suffering far worse nerf. Infact his nerf in overall output might be worse than Sukuna's since even a CT burnout nerf screws you over in CE control, but I won't be going for that and will stick to the CT heavily nerfed one. And yet Sukuna thinks 100% purple at a close distance as they are right now is getting him finished with no exception made to the likes of DA being there or whatever else. But Sukuna somehow survived without fatal injuries from a far beyond 100% purple at a close distance + several black flash amp gojo, whereas Mahoraga who was relative to Sukuna in stats, or at the same ballpark, as implied by gojo, got completely erased alongside the wheel.
0234-016.png


I wonder why Sukuna got away like that....

The answer is he adjusted the target technique (We've seen him control purple twice anyways with basic size manipulation. Against toji, he fired purple and it was a small ball. After it hit toji it expanded in size as the context heavily implies. Even the volume release shows the same thing and so does the Anime. So very intentional. And it shows gojo can control purple even when creating it, or when firing it he can adjust or do something else to it mid fire. Just like he can do with blue and red as we blatantly see in the Gojo vs Sukuna fight. Neutral Infinity also has a target technique as stated by gojo in the 1 year time skip post toji fight [Chapter 76. It's in the nanami says tumblr translation blog which corrects things from Viz] and fanbook says the same thing for blue. The raws also say the same thing for blue IN chapter 235 when it talks about "target" and we've seen very blatant examples of how blue can pull only one person or the surrounding environment.

Gojo can also somewhat use red in multiple ways kinda if we compare them to many different examples of usage in the series to eachother and how they work.) against Sukuna. Whilst he did make the purple fire in all directions, he did also make the purple's target technique to target Sukuna more specifically, adjusting its power as the context heavily implies to us from what I've shown from the Manga. It's not really the first time someone can do this - Sukuna heavily implies in chapter 236 that he CAN also adjust his target technique to a person. Meaning the act of Gojo doing the same for purple isn't really anything new.

Now for other instances: Gojo in chapter 229 as Sukuna has lost the domain battle, says that he'll bring Sukuna closer to death. This tells us he doesn't want to kill Sukuna, which is obvious given, given that Gojo's and the Jujutsu High gang's mission IS to literally save Megumi. Killing Sukuna is detrimental to that as it would KILL megumi. We know this because we've been told multiple times that if you kill X person, the vessel also dies, and vice versa. Ik you're thinking of bringing up chapter 224 where gojo says "I'll kill you". But that's literally gojo JOKING as the context above from what I explained entails, especially given how gojo literally does joke "special training" "looks like him" etc + can't kill otherwise megumi dies.




Besides, we know gojo further to WHY gojo isn't serious there. Character wise, gojo has been shown twice to say something on the outside but think differently from the inside:

0221-017.png

0052-017.png


So this wouldn't be out of character anyways since we literally do see him think differently than what he said (Compare chapter 224 to chapter 229 gojo talking about killing/bringing closer to death)
Now what actually does explicitly prove that Gojo wasn't being truthful there - Is how nobody reacted and questioned gojo for saying this in chapter 224. BUT they DO actually doubt when a cheerful gojo says AGAIN he'll kill Sukuna.
0231-019.png


Shishiso TL:



Pretty much confirming that Gojo was lying. Tl;dr gojo never had any killing intent towards Sukuna and has shown multiple times to hold back as I've shown. Infact even in chapter 229, gojo does not use red or blue but opts to go ahead and give Sukuna a beating instead with his hands when Sukuna was incapacitated BY Unlimited Void's sure hits, despite being very much capable of spamming his CT as even teen gojo post awakening tells us as much.
0076-010.png

"Simultaneously activating Multiple Reds and Blues respectively is coming along as well" - Teen gojo.
We can even confirm this real quick.
0052-012.png

0052-013.png

Hands in his pockets and he's manifesting about like 4-6 blue casually towards a fodder with his hands in his pockets.
0232-003.png

0232-004.png

CT-brain damage nerf Gojo can do this.

0233-018.png

Does a quick red against mf's that are at the very worst close to Sukuna's physicals (Mahoraga confirmed to be on the ballpark as Sukuna anyways. Feats even support this) despite suffering from CT-nerfed brain damage.

0234-015.png

0234-016.png

0234-017.png

That very same gojo with CT nerf but with one arm just newly gone from being World Slashed, (which is a very significant output nerf. See Naobito and Hana. Their CT got nerfed as well) literally and very quickly pulled off a maximum blue output after being ganged up on by both Mahoraga and Sukuna, and the latter two, despite the CE spark, could not move up in time and intercept and stop gojo from finishing off Agito. Oh by the way, gojo in this nerfed state can pull up maximum blue output punches.

Now that I've established even further as to why gojo IS holding back the first round (Can't speak much for the second round since he's far more nerfed, so he's very much trying here this time. Though he very explicitly did nerf his second hollow purple, meaning he held back in his finishing move.)

Let's go back to their first round:
Gojo does not at any point use red against Sukuna himself in the first round (Chapter 224-230) bar the first domain battle. And IN the instance he did use it, that was:
1. Gojo was already wounded everywhere and hadn't been using rct for couple of moments despite the big blood loss. His one eye is also damaged from the slash.
0226-018.png


2. Sukuna was domain amped whereas Gojo was not.
3. It's stated that domains have a buff and debuff effect. We even see such instance with a simple domain, which is inferior to DA (Domain Amplification). Kusakabe uses SD and explains as to how his output is higher now and Sukuna's techniques are weaker inside his "domain"


The order of scaling goes: DE Buff and Debuff effect > DA buff and debuff > SD buff and debuff.
You could also argue that the debuff mentioned, IS perhaps also correlating to stats, and not just CT, given how a domain buff DOES also encompass stats. And your own CT DOES get stronger inside your domain. So the opposite of a domain buff, which would be Domain debuff, could affect the enemy's stats and CT. But shrug. Up to you.
https://x.com/lightningclare/status/1774530609144361178


Here is the scan in question.
This is why Gojo used red.

But he never ever uses it again. Only when Mahoraga pops up does he go on to use it. It's not that Gojo can't use it is mid battle - because we see him literally do that TWICE. does it quickly against Agito & Mahoraga + Sukuna teaming up against him in chapter 233.
Does it against Sukuna again in chapter 232. Those two instances are under a CT brain damage nerf.
In chapter 226: He did it whilst being damaged with even his right eye being somewhat damaged, non domain amped, DE debuffed whilst being inside Sukuna's DE, with his CT nerfed and he perhaps might also be further stats nerfed by being inside his domain. It's just that Gojo holds back. The other domain battles further confirms this as Sukuna in chapter 232, despite using DA against Gojo in their other domain battles, heavily implies that this is his first time using DA to take on red, meaning that Gojo never used it again. And yet:

Gojo with just one punch near the end of their domain battle in chapter 228 does this:
0228-010.png


Piercing through his chest with a punch.
In chapter 229 before their last domain battle he does this:
0229-008.png

The panel after this:

0229-009.png

This is not red (I've went over this before. But you can see the difference. This isn't a burnt face but a face with the skin and more torn apart) Heavily implied to be gojo tearing his face with his hands.

0229-013.png

This is a callback to chapter 228, heavily implying that Gojo did indeed do it with one punch at that time, and he does it again in chapter 229.


Doesn't go for red or a maximum output blue to finish him off. Infact he could even go for a quick purple too given how good he is at it.

Hell, in chapter 235, near the end, we see as to how slow both Sukuna and Mahoraga becomes as blue and red are about to merge. They're not even able to quickly move further away as blue and red is about to merge, neither is Sukuna going back to the shadows or desummoning Mahoraga so that the latter doesn't get killed by the incoming purple. But no. It shows that Gojo is quick at the merging process of blue and red, despite it being his first time doing a roundabout way of firing purple + unleashing it in all directions and this was with gojo, as I've said so many times now, under CT-Brain damage nerf.
So he could have gone for a purple right after Sukuna's DE collapsed and fire it away, which could potentially even catch Mahoraga in process as the latter ONLY manifested when it completed the adaptation. Or red that is stronger than the quick fire version, which would kill Mahoraga anyways as gojo fires it away and it hits Mahoraga in the process. But despite all of these options, which would kill Sukuna if he did, he went for bringing Sukuna closer to death in order to incapacitate him (alongside the information overload that will get Sukuna incapacitated enough)

So no. Your explanation for why it is blue that Gojo used, is blatantly wrong. The fact that Yuta as I've stated, DID not comment or react on Gojo using his CT, Blue, as you've claimed, BUT does REACT when Gojo goes to lean back and start pointing his finger towards Sukuna, tells me more than enough that Gojo did not use blue. Infact there's even a blatant speed feat there.

First off: I've already said gojo is nerfed there in many ways in chapter 226. He did lose the ct burnout nerf but he's still affected by other ""debuffs"". So let's get into the feat:
Gojo's output spikes up and he gets faster, surprising even Sukuna as he latches onto him. Whilst doing this, Gojo prepares his red, and then goes on to lean back, brings his finger forward to point it at Sukuna, whilst his left arm latches into his right arm, aka Yusuke's spirit gun signature. Then he says red and fires it..
Click to expand...

Having this many full sized images back to back should be considered a war crime
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Snip.
Click to expand...
. (Continuing in another post because there is a max limit of 20 images post)

0226-016.png

0226-017.png

0226-018.png


Why is this a speed feat? Simple:
We're told that big moves and the like has a CE spike, which red falls under the category of. Sukuna has detailed information about Gojo's abilities, from both Megumi's and Yuji's memories, has seen several of his abilities before like Purple in GW arc, blue and the like. He also has Kenjaku who has also explained others abilities to him, like Yuta, or even Gojo's. So he knows what he can do in the general outline. He also had a body-contact with gojo there, as in, when gojo was "hugging him". Which means dude had a very close up experience in feeling the CE spike/ignition.



It's also why even Mahito, who hasn't ever witnessed or seen gojo's domain expansion, goes "Are you for real?" when he senses the big CE spike, of the incoming domain expansion.
So in order of events: Gojo speeded up and surprised Sukuna with his speed, perhaps being a blitz. Sukuna thinks about it, gojo's CE spike up is revealed to him from a very very close point meaning gojo is going to use his CT. Gojo leans back and points his finger and his left hand latches onto his right arm whilst he lets go off his legs latching around Sukuna so that he won't be carried away along with Sukuna when he fires red, Sukuna as we see in the panel before gojo fires his red, IS trying to seemingly raise his hands up, but is obviously very slow as we see that he did not do it in time as gojo fires the red and Sukuna gets the red blasted at his face.

In conclusion: They're not relative. You could show instances where they are "relative". But that doesn't matter when I've completely established from the overall context of the manga that Gojo did indeed hold back both CT wise and physically for the most of the fight. Only occasionally does he strike stronger to where he can put holes in Sukuna or tear apart his face, or nearly blitz (OR blatantly blitz) Sukuna. As for the second round, both are weakened with gojo actually being nerfed far worse than Sukuna is. Most especially CT wise. The fact that Sukuna has never ever been able to do a single damage to gojo with any of his punches or kicks whereas Gojo CAN, tells me more than enough.

Sukuna's domain expansion which includes the strongest version of his dismantle and cleave needs to slash at Gojo so many times (Hundreds or thousands) to make the wounds look impressive, but one slash or few alone looks roughly comparable to a paper cut 😭, which also explains why Sukuna never used his own dismantle and cleave inside his domain where gojo didn't have his infinity due to CT burnout nerf. And I don't mean the sure hit, I'm talking about his CT which is also amped in his own domain. Yet he never used it whilst gojo was nerfed and also without his infinity anyways.

Gokukid2005 said:
Well for starters Sukuna does comment on his speed.
No one ever outright says its blue cause they don't know and neither did we until we got an explanation for his movement in 226 and one for his strength in 231.
However they always note that it's not just Gojo's base stats.
Click to expand...
Well for starters that part is retconned by Gege who tells you no that shit ain't speed, in chapter 226.
They do? Use context. Kusakabe tells you. What compresses space? Blue. Who also tells you this? Gege.
The Jogo example isn't gojo using his blue to speed himself up. That's just him being that fast.
The Sukuna part in chapter 226 is the same Sukuna who knows and has witnessed and gotten explanation from Kenjaku on Gojo's abilities. And again, you're ignoring the focal point as to how not even Yuta called it out as it being his CT. Even Sukuna didn't. So that argument goes out of the window.

Gokukid2005 said:
I saw your explanation I just don't agree with it when we clearly see his hands clasped right here.
Seeing it before or after the fact makes no difference because:
  1. We know he can teleport
  2. We know he uses that handsign when he teleports
  3. We and Toji see him vanish and he reappears with his hands clasped
The most logical thing to assume is that he teleported a short distance away like he's done countless times and all he had to work on was getting better at long distances.
Click to expand...
And I literally addressed that. You clearly didn't read it then. So I'll have to reiterate it so you can understand and actually come up with something new.
Every instance of Gojo using blue to teleport WHEN on panel shows gojo clasping his hands, before disappearing. Even in short distances or long distances. In GW arc. Volume 0 movie. Gojo vs Sukuna fight beginning of the story, both ANIME and Manga. But that very same gojo who dodged Toji's attack did not do this despite it being a consistent point.

0074-014.png

0074-015.png

Why are we not seeing gojo go for clasping his hands before teleporting away despite him being ON the panel? Every instance of where gojo is on the focus we see him clasp his hands and teleport. And here we have the closest one yet but no showing. Only Gojo moving in the panel from the blurred lines indicating that he ACTUALLY moved rather than teleported, which actually supports what I've been saying honestly.
(just decided to check volume 0 movie, s1 and s2. Any instances of teleportation actually has a "sound effect" to it. Jogo vs Gojo fight Episode 7 in S1: starting from 7:20, then around 7:40, seemingly teleporting behind Jogo and going in for the kick after. There's sound.
Season 1, episode 20 (GW arc, gojo teleports next to the "rack rack" guy) 18:40. Sound effect again for teleportation. Even season 1 episode 2 where gojo and Sukuna fight has those sound effects
Volume 0 movie: 1:16:57 another teleportation sound effect. 1:17:09 teleportation sound effect again.


The only one that doesn't is HI arc gojo in episode 4, 14:30. The very same anime that he supervised and also watched where he would post his comments for each episode. Yet for some reason the same mappa that talks about respecting canon and all that would remove gojo teleporting, y'know, him USING his CT, which I don't think Mappa has ever done anything like that where it removes the scene where a character uses X CT technique.☹️
Yeah if all anime instances has sound effect for teleportation and gojo clasping his hands before teleporting but not HI arc gojo in the anime, then I literally don't see why you'd think gojo used the teleportation application here when he has never ever USED it throughout the entire HI arc, no comment or anything is made about it even by Toji, let alone the narrator, and the former literally talked about and listed what abilities gojo had and what he could do but not a single damn mention about teleportation. That makes the most logical sense to you gang?
0075-002.png

0075-003.png

0075-004.png


Yall are literally hanging on one instance of Gojo "appearing" away from Toji, clasping his hands. Whereas the anime shows otherwise (Not even a teleportation sound effect either) and every other instance of Gojo teleporting whilst being the focus of the panel, shows him CLASP it before teleporting. But not here.
We even see how in the manga, kenjaku lists out what gojo can do and what gege shows you is gojo teleporting from GW arc. Not the "supposedly" most recent example like the one from HI arc.


0084-012.png


Decided to check if there were even some enviromental effect from gojo using teleportation when he's ON panel and yeah there is.
0052-011.png

Since his full body is displayed, there is that "smoke" effect after teleporting. But we don't see that for HI arc gojo who's full body is visible completely. There's roughly around 20 chapters separating this instance to chapter 74. So I don't see why HI arc gojo wouldn't have that effect either, but he doesn't because he didn't teleport.

Infact now that I look about it. If you go-ahead and compare every single showing of teleportation, gojo literally is clasping his hands together. Yet if you look at the HI arc example which you and a few others are showing - We do not see that. Please take a look and zoom in. We do not see two hands clasped. What we do however see is Gojo's left hand balled into a fist, with the other hand clasping over it. We call it "fist-in-palm gesture" (You can search it up to get a better idea)


Just zoomed in and rotated. The most unfortunate thing tho is how the paneling is ass and the hair is in the way. But if you yourself, clench your fist and clasp your other hand over it, you can see why it can be interpreted as both ways -
1. clasped hands
2. Fist in palm gesture (or something like that)

But tbh. That scene which I believe many here can agree on, is a bit ambigious given how it looks unclear to what he's actually doing. You can literally argue he does either of these I mentioned.

Yapping is over.
 
I changed the images sizes. Are they aight now for yall? The only thing I can't really do anything about seems to be the imgur links unfortunately. So you'll have to put up with that.
 
Just wanna ask a question to everyone here: Please do me a favor for a second and search up, "Fist-in-palm gesture". Look up at the various images. Once done, come back to this and look at the image here (imgur link). Then look at your own hands and clench one of your hands, preferably the left hand, into a fist. And then clasp the other hand over it. Once done, keep it that way and then look at the image, and compare it to what you're doing with your hands.
And then what I want to ask of yall is this: (ignore everything else aside from the panel. Only what gojo is doing with his hands precisely)
- Do you think that scene is up to interpretation at THE very least (even if you disagree with it not being clasped hands as I claimed) on what gojo did with his hands being either option #1 or #2 due to how it looks a bit ambiguous?
Or do you think it is absolutely the first option.




.
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
snip
Click to expand...
Half of what you typed out is completely unrelated or just long rants from very tiny sections of what I've said.
I don't care if he's teleporting or if he's just moving really really fast.
He's using blue to do whatever it is and that is my point.
I quite frankly do not care enough to go back and forth with these walls of text on a topic I find rather simple.
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
No? You're arguing it was speed which is completely baseless. Gege retconned it long ago to being teleportation, NOT speed. It's why Hakari mentions "can't he get enough fast enough?" and Kusakabe goes ON to explicitly refuse what he said about what Blue's teleportation IS.


Kusakabe DOES refute that notion of blue's teleportation application being supposedly speed.
LITERALLY.

Hakari:「伏魔御廚子」の最大効果範囲が渋谷の更地と仮定しても五条さんのスピードならすぐに抜け出せる！！



Kusakabe: いや　アイツの瞬間移動は無下限呪術を使った空間と座標の圧縮だ




Hakari: "Even if Malevolent Shrine's max radius is about as wide as Shibuya, Gojo-san should move fast enough to get away!"
This is in reference to Blue. That's why Kusakabe talks about teleportation because he understands what Hakari was talking about, but decided to correct him.

Kusakabe: "Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless sorcery to compress space and coordinates."*
This is Gege's subtle way of retconning the previously undecided "hmm is it speed or teleportation" (He literally talked multiple times about how he thinks he half assed his explanation about limitless and was unsure. That's why somewhere around vol. 13 or 14 he decided to seek help: Which is where T-San comes in. And Gege proceeds to yoink the explanation he gave

0129-018.png

It does, because it's explained in a similar way to how Kusakabe explains it.

"Not at all. He teleports by using Limitless Cursed Technique (Blue) to compress space and coordinates."*

T-San: "You could cast the visible scale to a point at infinity... Like compressing space or viewing it with stereographic projection. For example, we're about one meter apart right now, but... If you were to view these two points from a great distance.."
"Gege: OH! They overlap!"
T-San:"It's like zooming out with a camera but taken to the extreme and applied to space, thereby bringing two points together (Attraction)"


That's why I'm telling you that you're wrong.



😭 This is just nonsense. We still see the very same god tiers get cooked by a ct burnout. Arguing that they won't get that nerf is just nonsense when even they cannot use their CT. So YES they do get that nerf. It is BLATANTLY part of their brain that gets a burnout. You gonna argue losing limbs don't affect your output either now because they're the "last people you'd expect"? Prove it or drop it.

? That is very much possible. If I see you hold back twice on your attacks (Purple. Gojo did not use full incantation set for blue and red. He only used one part of it. If he used the others he would have gotten far beyond 200%, reaching "Unlimited Hollow Purple" and above the normal one which the latter in chapter 235 reached that through the full incantation. Even without that, gojo could have also casted a domain expansion after teleporting and win the fight RIGHT there. We already saw a instance where Sukuna couldn't keep up in the domain battle at chapter 229 due to being a tiny bit slower.

Second purple: Sukuna explicitly states that a gojo who is relative to him whilst they're both brain damaged can KILL him with the 100% purple at a close distance, and this was for a gojo that had a brain damage centered on his CT. Sukuna's brain damage was centered on the barrier technique part. This is stated in chapter 231, specifically the barrier part. For gojo's brain damage location, it was stated in chapter 230. Tells you more than enough that Gojo's CT was suffering far worse nerf. Infact his nerf in overall output might be worse than Sukuna's since even a CT burnout nerf screws you over in CE control, but I won't be going for that and will stick to the CT heavily nerfed one. And yet Sukuna thinks 100% purple at a close distance as they are right now is getting him finished with no exception made to the likes of DA being there or whatever else. But Sukuna somehow survived without fatal injuries from a far beyond 100% purple at a close distance + several black flash amp gojo, whereas Mahoraga who was relative to Sukuna in stats, or at the same ballpark, as implied by gojo, got completely erased alongside the wheel.
0234-016.png


I wonder why Sukuna got away like that....

The answer is he adjusted the target technique (We've seen him control purple twice anyways with basic size manipulation. Against toji, he fired purple and it was a small ball. After it hit toji it expanded in size as the context heavily implies. Even the volume release shows the same thing and so does the Anime. So very intentional. And it shows gojo can control purple even when creating it, or when firing it he can adjust or do something else to it mid fire. Just like he can do with blue and red as we blatantly see in the Gojo vs Sukuna fight. Neutral Infinity also has a target technique as stated by gojo in the 1 year time skip post toji fight [Chapter 76. It's in the nanami says tumblr translation blog which corrects things from Viz] and fanbook says the same thing for blue. The raws also say the same thing for blue IN chapter 235 when it talks about "target" and we've seen very blatant examples of how blue can pull only one person or the surrounding environment.

Gojo can also somewhat use red in multiple ways kinda if we compare them to many different examples of usage in the series to eachother and how they work.) against Sukuna. Whilst he did make the purple fire in all directions, he did also make the purple's target technique to target Sukuna more specifically, adjusting its power as the context heavily implies to us from what I've shown from the Manga. It's not really the first time someone can do this - Sukuna heavily implies in chapter 236 that he CAN also adjust his target technique to a person. Meaning the act of Gojo doing the same for purple isn't really anything new.

Now for other instances: Gojo in chapter 229 as Sukuna has lost the domain battle, says that he'll bring Sukuna closer to death. This tells us he doesn't want to kill Sukuna, which is obvious given, given that Gojo's and the Jujutsu High gang's mission IS to literally save Megumi. Killing Sukuna is detrimental to that as it would KILL megumi. We know this because we've been told multiple times that if you kill X person, the vessel also dies, and vice versa. Ik you're thinking of bringing up chapter 224 where gojo says "I'll kill you". But that's literally gojo JOKING as the context above from what I explained entails, especially given how gojo literally does joke "special training" "looks like him" etc + can't kill otherwise megumi dies.




Besides, we know gojo further to WHY gojo isn't serious there. Character wise, gojo has been shown twice to say something on the outside but think differently from the inside:

0221-017.png

0052-017.png


So this wouldn't be out of character anyways since we literally do see him think differently than what he said (Compare chapter 224 to chapter 229 gojo talking about killing/bringing closer to death)
Now what actually does explicitly prove that Gojo wasn't being truthful there - Is how nobody reacted and questioned gojo for saying this in chapter 224. BUT they DO actually doubt when a cheerful gojo says AGAIN he'll kill Sukuna.
0231-019.png


Shishiso TL:



Pretty much confirming that Gojo was lying. Tl;dr gojo never had any killing intent towards Sukuna and has shown multiple times to hold back as I've shown. Infact even in chapter 229, gojo does not use red or blue but opts to go ahead and give Sukuna a beating instead with his hands when Sukuna was incapacitated BY Unlimited Void's sure hits, despite being very much capable of spamming his CT as even teen gojo post awakening tells us as much.
0076-010.png

"Simultaneously activating Multiple Reds and Blues respectively is coming along as well" - Teen gojo.
We can even confirm this real quick.
0052-012.png

0052-013.png

Hands in his pockets and he's manifesting about like 4-6 blue casually towards a fodder with his hands in his pockets.
0232-003.png

0232-004.png

CT-brain damage nerf Gojo can do this.

0233-018.png

Does a quick red against mf's that are at the very worst close to Sukuna's physicals (Mahoraga confirmed to be on the ballpark as Sukuna anyways. Feats even support this) despite suffering from CT-nerfed brain damage.

0234-015.png

0234-016.png

0234-017.png

That very same gojo with CT nerf but with one arm just newly gone from being World Slashed, (which is a very significant output nerf. See Naobito and Hana. Their CT got nerfed as well) literally and very quickly pulled off a maximum blue output after being ganged up on by both Mahoraga and Sukuna, and the latter two, despite the CE spark, could not move up in time and intercept and stop gojo from finishing off Agito. Oh by the way, gojo in this nerfed state can pull up maximum blue output punches.

Now that I've established even further as to why gojo IS holding back the first round (Can't speak much for the second round since he's far more nerfed, so he's very much trying here this time. Though he very explicitly did nerf his second hollow purple, meaning he held back in his finishing move.)

Let's go back to their first round:
Gojo does not at any point use red against Sukuna himself in the first round (Chapter 224-230) bar the first domain battle. And IN the instance he did use it, that was:
1. Gojo was already wounded everywhere and hadn't been using rct for couple of moments despite the big blood loss. His one eye is also damaged from the slash.
0226-018.png


2. Sukuna was domain amped whereas Gojo was not.
3. It's stated that domains have a buff and debuff effect. We even see such instance with a simple domain, which is inferior to DA (Domain Amplification). Kusakabe uses SD and explains as to how his output is higher now and Sukuna's techniques are weaker inside his "domain"


The order of scaling goes: DE Buff and Debuff effect > DA buff and debuff > SD buff and debuff.
You could also argue that the debuff mentioned, IS perhaps also correlating to stats, and not just CT, given how a domain buff DOES also encompass stats. And your own CT DOES get stronger inside your domain. So the opposite of a domain buff, which would be Domain debuff, could affect the enemy's stats and CT. But shrug. Up to you.
https://x.com/lightningclare/status/1774530609144361178


Here is the scan in question.
This is why Gojo used red.

But he never ever uses it again. Only when Mahoraga pops up does he go on to use it. It's not that Gojo can't use it is mid battle - because we see him literally do that TWICE. does it quickly against Agito & Mahoraga + Sukuna teaming up against him in chapter 233.
Does it against Sukuna again in chapter 232. Those two instances are under a CT brain damage nerf.
In chapter 226: He did it whilst being damaged with even his right eye being somewhat damaged, non domain amped, DE debuffed whilst being inside Sukuna's DE, with his CT nerfed and he perhaps might also be further stats nerfed by being inside his domain. It's just that Gojo holds back. The other domain battles further confirms this as Sukuna in chapter 232, despite using DA against Gojo in their other domain battles, heavily implies that this is his first time using DA to take on red, meaning that Gojo never used it again. And yet:

Gojo with just one punch near the end of their domain battle in chapter 228 does this:
0228-010.png


Piercing through his chest with a punch.
In chapter 229 before their last domain battle he does this:
0229-008.png

The panel after this:

0229-009.png

This is not red (I've went over this before. But you can see the difference. This isn't a burnt face but a face with the skin and more torn apart) Heavily implied to be gojo tearing his face with his hands.

0229-013.png

This is a callback to chapter 228, heavily implying that Gojo did indeed do it with one punch at that time, and he does it again in chapter 229.


Doesn't go for red or a maximum output blue to finish him off. Infact he could even go for a quick purple too given how good he is at it.

Hell, in chapter 235, near the end, we see as to how slow both Sukuna and Mahoraga becomes as blue and red are about to merge. They're not even able to quickly move further away as blue and red is about to merge, neither is Sukuna going back to the shadows or desummoning Mahoraga so that the latter doesn't get killed by the incoming purple. But no. It shows that Gojo is quick at the merging process of blue and red, despite it being his first time doing a roundabout way of firing purple + unleashing it in all directions and this was with gojo, as I've said so many times now, under CT-Brain damage nerf.
So he could have gone for a purple right after Sukuna's DE collapsed and fire it away, which could potentially even catch Mahoraga in process as the latter ONLY manifested when it completed the adaptation. Or red that is stronger than the quick fire version, which would kill Mahoraga anyways as gojo fires it away and it hits Mahoraga in the process. But despite all of these options, which would kill Sukuna if he did, he went for bringing Sukuna closer to death in order to incapacitate him (alongside the information overload that will get Sukuna incapacitated enough)

So no. Your explanation for why it is blue that Gojo used, is blatantly wrong. The fact that Yuta as I've stated, DID not comment or react on Gojo using his CT, Blue, as you've claimed, BUT does REACT when Gojo goes to lean back and start pointing his finger towards Sukuna, tells me more than enough that Gojo did not use blue. Infact there's even a blatant speed feat there.

First off: I've already said gojo is nerfed there in many ways in chapter 226. He did lose the ct burnout nerf but he's still affected by other ""debuffs"". So let's get into the feat:
Gojo's output spikes up and he gets faster, surprising even Sukuna as he latches onto him. Whilst doing this, Gojo prepares his red, and then goes on to lean back, brings his finger forward to point it at Sukuna, whilst his left arm latches into his right arm, aka Yusuke's spirit gun signature. Then he says red and fires it..
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the "a lot of nonsensical yapping to create a big wall of text, making the debate stop quickly due to how boring is to keep going", I heven't seen one of these since the covid era
images
 
Gokukid2005 said:
Half of what you typed out is completely unrelated or just long rants from very tiny sections of what I've said.
I don't care if he's teleporting or if he's just moving really really fast.
He's using blue to do whatever it is and that is my point.
I quite frankly do not care enough to go back and forth with these walls of text on a topic I find rather simple.
Click to expand...
No. Everything I've been writing is debunking (Or if you don't like that word: Countering your argument) your idea of relativity between gojo and Sukuna by piling up more and more evidence to strengthen my interpretation.
You not caring on what he does with blue would actually just go against your own argument though? You're reliant on the mentions of speed.
And it being teleportation debunks the very idea of him using it as speed as I've evidenced. Gege doesn't think that anymore. There is no blue that Gojo uses to pull himself in.
Ok. That's fine.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
JJK calcs try not to extrapolate with unreasonable reactions timeframes challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Click to expand...
Basing it off Maki is just so annoying too. I would've been like "hell yeah! won't get accepted but alr" if he used Hakari being mhs.
 
Ryu is like, heavy hitter level in stats. Which would still put him in the same ball park as Maki which Yuta and Hakari are in too. Might not have the exact value of mach 3 or whatever but that doesn't really matter lol. They're at the same ballpark at the end of the day. King Crimson and Star Platinum situation in a way with the first class statement
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Ryu is like, heavy hitter level in stats. Which would still put him in the same ball park as Maki which Yuta and Hakari are in too. Might not have the exact value of mach 3 or whatever but that doesn't really matter lol. They're at the same ballpark at the end of the day. King Crimson and Star Platinum situation in a way with the first class statement
Click to expand...
It matters when doing a calc. And heavy hitters is not/shouldn't be thought of as "they all scale rel", especially not for speed. I think its clear heavy hitters is in reference to their defining attributes and what makes even trying to freely move about an issue for Kenjaku, not they all can hit really hard.
 
Arkenis said:
It matters when doing a calc.
Click to expand...
That's cool. But I don't really care for it tho. That's my point. I'm just saying they're relative.


Arkenis said:
And heavy hitters is not/shouldn't be thought of as "they all scale rel", especially not for speed.
Click to expand...
? Yeah they should? There's nothing implying they blitz one another or one shot one another with physical stats. Hakari is like > Yuta in stats but the difference isn't that large. Maki is a stats merchant so she's probably >= Yuta prior to their 1 month training. Kenjaku doesn't know how good they are at the moment. But he can judge that they're comparable) or so before this. So Yuta should honestly be > her but nothing that much significant. Yuta fought a way less nerfed Sukuna, although granted this was a 3vs1 indie Yuta's domain + his domain stats amp whereas Maki is fighting a post JL + multiple soul punches (The point of these is to rouse Megumi from the bath which makes him lose more control over his body and more nerfed CE output) + soul damage heart wound Sukuna with one limb missing and another damaged. So honestly, it's quite clear they're in the same ballpark (which doesn't mean equal mind you) with Hakari up there too. Maki can't really get the 1 month training benefits either. All in all - I really don't see how they're not relative at all. Maki could be at the peak of heavy hitters with the other two at the top, or reverse the order. At the end of the day they're in the same tier.


Arkenis said:
not they all can hit really hard.
Click to expand...
Also. The defining trait for you to be good IS literally your ce reinforcement being high as well bro, (not just your abilities because those mean jack if you can't punch good or go fast good enough) or well your stats in other words. There is nothing that proves that Maki is blitz level or one shot level above Yuta and Hakari and vice versa. They wouldn't be in the same tier if that was so. This is even similar to the Gojo-Geto situation. They're fellow strongest, but it's not like Geto is far below gojo in stats, especially given the context.

This isn't even a Naoya situation where he is way too fast for his own level, and he does that with his CT. None of the heavy hitters have this trait.
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Yuta prior to their 1 month training.
Click to expand...
Prove he got faster besides just bringing up vague forms of scaling or telling me "he reacted to Sukuna"
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Yuta fought a way less nerfed Sukuna, although granted this was a 3vs1 indie Yuta's domain + his domain stats amp whereas Maki is fighting a post JL + multiple soul punches (The point of these is to rouse Megumi from the bath which makes him lose more control over his body and more nerfed CE output) + soul damage heart wound Sukuna with one limb missing and another damaged.
Click to expand...
And you already did it.

TheGunsFinalWrath said:
There's nothing implying they blitz one another or one shot one another with physical stats.
Click to expand...
Never said they'd blitz one another.

TheGunsFinalWrath said:
So honestly, it's quite clear they're in the same ballpark (which doesn't mean equal mind you) with Hakari up there too. Maki can't really get the 1 month training benefits either. All in all - I really don't see how they're not relative at all. Maki could be at the peak of heavy hitters with the other two at the top, or reverse the order. At the end of the day they're in the same tier.
Click to expand...
Yeah same tier of power if we're talking about city block level or whatever but not speed. Maki's reactions are better than others due to her senses.

TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Maki can't really get the 1 month training benefits either.
Click to expand...
Their month of training still won't put them at Maki's reaction speed, because hers is based off something they don't have.

TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Also. The defining trait for you to be good IS literally your ce reinforcement being high as well bro,
Click to expand...
Yeah in overall context sure but here Kenjaku singles out the three most broken people on the highs side beside Gojo. Also Maki doesn't have ce so this doesn't make sense since we're referring to a statement about all three.
 
Arkenis said:
Prove he got faster besides just bringing up vague forms of scaling or telling me "he reacted to Sukuna"
Click to expand...
?

Read chapter 245. It's stated that everybody in the Jujutsu gang got stronger. Yuta also did body swap training with gojo, as we're told in chapter 261 or something. Did you forget all of this??

Arkenis said:
And you already did it.
Click to expand...
Did what? Showing you that they're still in the same tier? What about it?
You can still have Maki above in stats btw. But nothing remotely implies they're speed blitz or one shot level, OF any kind.


Arkenis said:
Never said they'd blitz one another.
Click to expand...
Then they're in the same tier. End of topic.


Arkenis said:
Yeah same tier of power if we're talking about city block level or whatever but not speed. Maki's reactions are better than others due to her senses.
Click to expand...
Same tier in speed. That's really it. She can have reaction speed higher but nothing a level above these two lol. You'd need to prove it if you think she does.


Arkenis said:
Their month of training still won't put them at Maki's reaction speed, because hers is based off something they don't have.
Click to expand...
Still heavy hitter level. Got better. You can as I said, have Maki above then in stats but never outside their level, that's fine.
Also what does she have? All she has is better senses really. Which is why I'm fine with having her > these two in stats because she's clearly a physical oriented fighter. A stats merchant.
Yuta is CT/abilities merchant. Hakari is mainly regeneration merchant + inf stamina alongside higher than normal stats.


Arkenis said:
Yeah in overall context sure but here Kenjaku singles out the three most broken people on the highs side beside Gojo. Also Maki doesn't have ce so this doesn't make sense since we're referring to a statement about all three.
Click to expand...
I mean yeah. Very obviously all three excel at something that the other doesn't. But it's not like they're transcendent of eachother. Maki basically got free mini rct, can't be sensed by "CE sensing", her skill as a physical fighter primarily, and her stats.

I mean. I didn't mean Maki has CE. Maybe I should have been more clear, tho I did say "in other words stats" ig.
 
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