Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Rosa]

the JJK0 Gojo is weak meta makes no sense

No one calls Vol0 Gojo weak, the issue is there's simply no evidence that he's stagnated in power to upscale vol0 characters such as Miguel. We know after Gojo awakened he went on to continue training and getting stronger so there's no reason to assume he stopped specifically after vol0 (we even see him training Megumi and are told he'll often train with his students personally), we know he never stopped taking missions (some of which he lands black flashes during) which sorcerers get stronger from, we know he has insane potential to grow exponentially, and we know he never reached his limit because even his CT has room to grow (unlimited hollow was the first time he ever reinterpreted his CT to do so and it had room for improvement, not to mention the potential for a limitless maximum technique). So with all this in mind, there's just no basis to say vol0 Gojo = current Gojo, we should scale them off of their own feats.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

His output doesn't suck. His CE control does tho. Only reason he matched with Ryu is due to his abnormally high reserves that compensated for his ce control not being on Ryu level. If it was Ryu's level, Ryu is an instant goner.

His control over explicitly cannot suck, considering he can amp his weapons alongside his body with his monstrous CE and not have it break, which was the issue he had in Vol 0. He couldn’t input enough against Geto’s curse, and he input too much against Geto himself.

Ryu just had higher output, I don’t know why that’s such a contested topic.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

No one calls Vol0 Gojo weak, the issue is there's simply no evidence that he's stagnated in power to upscale vol0 characters such as Miguel. We know after Gojo awakened he went on to continue training and getting stronger so there's no reason to assume he stopped specifically after vol0 (we even see him training Megumi and are told he'll often train with his students personally), we know he never stopped taking missions (some of which he lands black flashes during) which sorcerers get stronger from, we know he has insane potential to grow exponentially, and we know he never reached his limit because even his CT has room to grow (unlimited hollow was the first time he ever reinterpreted his CT to do so and it had room for improvement, not to mention the potential for a limitless maximum technique). So with all this in mind, there's just no basis to say vol0 Gojo = current Gojo, we should scale them off of their own feats.

Ok now let’s consider what is constant between now and JJK0:

• Hakari still considered JJK0 Gojo unbeatable despite only last meeting him one year later, and he’s stronger than Sendai Yuta at his peak
• He still has all the same titles, and his reputation wasn’t built in a year, so he should still be the fastest sorcerer alive and faster than Naobito. This means JJK0 Gojo is at least supersonic via being faster than Naobito

So we get to a Gojo that tiers basically the same as the current Gojo, and barely any difference anyways. So why take it as this, then? Knowing JJK0 Gojo is supersonic, we can know he’d still be relevant vs Sukuna and knowing Maki caps at Toji level, he’d be an insane asset vs Current Sukuna

 

[M3X_2.0]

His output doesn't suck. His CE control does tho. Only reason he matched with Ryu is due to his abnormally high reserves that compensated for his ce control not being on Ryu level. If it was Ryu's level, Ryu is a instant goner.

Also your headcanon.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No one calls Vol0 Gojo weak, the issue is there's simply no evidence that he's stagnated in power to upscale vol0 characters such as Miguel. We know after Gojo awakened he went on to continue training and getting stronger so there's no reason to assume he stopped specifically after vol0 (we even see him training Megumi and are told he'll often train with his students personally), we know he never stopped taking missions (some of which he lands black flashes during) which sorcerers get stronger from, we know he has insane potential to grow exponentially, and we know he never reached his limit because even his CT has room to grow (unlimited hollow was the first time he ever reinterpreted his CT to do so and it had room for improvement, not to mention the potential for a limitless maximum technique). So with all this in mind, there's just no basis to say vol0 Gojo = current Gojo, we should scale them off of their own feats.

Preach

 

[Rosa]

Ok now let’s consider what is constant between now and JJK0:

• Hakari still considered JJK0 Gojo unbeatable despite only last meeting him one year later, and he’s stronger than Sendai Yuta at his peak
• He still has all the same titles, and his reputation wasn’t built in a year, so he should still be the fastest sorcerer alive and faster than Naobito. This means JJK0 Gojo is at least supersonic via being faster than Naobito

So we get to a Gojo that tiers basically the same as the current Gojo, and barely any difference anyways. So why take it as this, then? Knowing JJK0 Gojo is supersonic, we can know he’d still be relevant vs Sukuna and knowing Maki caps at Toji level, he’d be an insane asset vs Current Sukuna

Your logic here doesn't follow; you're asserting because both vol0 Gojo and current Gojo are above Hakari and Naobito they therefore must be "in the same tier" but in the same way saiyan saga Vegeta and current Vegeta are above Raditz that doesn't put them in the same tier.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Also something important is not scaling people like Geto to volume 0 Gojo or Rika to Volume 0 Gojo because it’s all erroneous logic, and he’s still far above everyone even in JJK0

 

[M3X_2.0]

Why do people want to make Yuta’s CE mastery inferior to what it really is?

“Oh his output sucks” when it was never stated to suck, it was never implied to suck and never shown to suck. “Oh but his Cleave didn’t do anything to Sukuna” yes because it’s ******* Sukuna.

“Oh his CE control sucks” when it was never stated to suck, it was never implied to suck and never shown to suck.

Y’all naturally have bad interpretation and reading comprehension, and when yall decide to take these interpretations as canon, that’s what happen.

“Hey look based on my shitty conclusions I made, we can conclude that Yuta’s CE output and control suck, even though the manga never acknowledges any of this and this is all from our head”

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Your logic here doesn't follow; you're asserting because both vol0 Gojo and current Gojo are above Hakari and Naobito they therefore must be "in the same tier" but in the same way saiyan saga Vegeta and current Vegeta are above Raditz that doesn't put them in the same tier.

It does because we know from Sukuna that supersonic speeds are relevant to Satoru in the Shinjuku Showdown, given he uses supersonic (Mach 1-5 speeds) to attack Satoru there

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hell we had a discussion back then because people were saying Yuta’s CE reserves being massive was retconned because he apparently ran out of CE quickly against Ryu and Uro.

That’s how insane mfers are here.

 

[Rosa]

Also something important is not scaling people like Geto to volume 0 Gojo or Rika to Volume 0 Gojo because it’s all erroneous logic, and he’s still far above everyone even in JJK0

There's an argument to be had about Rika's binding vow blast being superior to vol0 Gojo AP wise given Geto believed it to surpass CE itself despite being aware of Gojo's hollow purple, however this would have some inverse implications such as vol0 Gojo not just being weaker than current Gojo but also explicitly power cliffed due to Kenjaku's scaling later on which I'm really NOT sold on.

It does because we know from Sukuna that supersonic speeds are relevant to Satoru in the Shinjuku Showdown, given he uses supersonic (Mach 1-5 speeds) to attack Satoru there

Honestly you might just be a lost cause, I think it's insane that you've constructed all of these headcanon positions like "PB must ALWAYS be capped at the speed of sound due to Shibuya Choso's PB being stated faster than sound" and then you retroactively try to scale the inverse series that way - requiring you to posit additional headcanons to make it work, until eventually in order to even engage in conversation with you on these topics I need to first trail this long web of positions which are just never stated in the series at all. Like it's a huge red flag that you can't even engage in a conversation as simple as this without shoehorning in your "JJK caps at around PB speed" meta as your sole foundation and basis, it's fundamentally just agenda scaling where you can ONLY see JJK through your agenda.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

There's an argument to be had about Rika's binding vow blast being superior to vol0 Gojo AP wise given Geto believed it to surpass CE itself despite being aware of Gojo's hollow purple, however this would have some inverse implications such as vol0 Gojo not just being weaker than current Gojo but also explicitly power cliffed due to Kenjaku's scaling later on which I'm really NOT sold on.

Honestly you might just be a lost cause, I think it's insane that you've constructed all of these headcanon positions like "PB must ALWAYS be capped at the speed of sound due to Shibuya Choso's PB being stated faster than sound" and then you retroactively try to scale the inverse series that way - requiring you to posit additional headcanons to make it work, until eventually in order to even engage in conversation with you on these topics I need to first trail this long web of positions which are just never stated in the series at all. Like it's a huge red flag that you can't even engage in a conversation as simple as this without shoehorning in your "JJK caps at around PB speed" meta as your sole foundation and basis, it's fundamentally just agenda scaling where you can ONLY see JJK through your agenda.

Funny thing, the biggest headcanon people use here to downplay speed for Sukuna and Gojo is "Sukuna used PW because he thought it could blitz Gojo." I don't know how they came to this headcanon when it was never stated that Sukuna used that because of speed; the only time he used it against Gojo was because he wanted to make a surprise attack. The second time, he wanted to reach the red, which was far away, so he used it as a long-distance attack(also Mid air)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

It doesn't have to a big difference like 100X to be a big stat advantage. It's something that's easy to take for granted within the debate community, but even being only 2x greater can be a real problem. Like everyone fighting Sukuna right now, they can hurt him. But he's still able to easily outspeed and essentially one-shot all of them even at this level. Like he straight up would've killed Choso if he didn't have some form of RCT or someone to heal him offscreen with just his hands. And Gojo could block and tank strikes from a stronger Sukuna even without Infinity. Sukuna avoids PB like its a snail and he eats punches from Rika, Yuta, and Yuji like they're just sparring, all while getting weaker.

No matter how big the stat advantage is, Gojo clearly would bully everyone fighting Sukuna right now, even without using Blue or Red. Because weakened Sukuna isn't putting anywhere close to the same amount of work that peak sukuna nor Gojo can do

Tbf Yuta was actually doing some damage

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Honestly you might just be a lost cause, I think it's insane that you've constructed all of these headcanon positions like "PB must ALWAYS be capped at the speed of sound due to Shibuya Choso's PB being stated faster than sound" and then you retroactively try to scale the inverse series that way - requiring you to posit additional headcanons to make it work, until eventually in order to even engage in conversation with you on these topics I need to first trail this long web of positions which are just never stated in the series at all. Like it's a huge red flag that you can't even engage in a conversation as simple as this without shoehorning in your "JJK caps at around PB speed" meta as your sole foundation and basis, it's fundamentally just agenda scaling where you can ONLY see JJK through your agenda.

You don’t get it, do you

Piercing blood reaches a max limit of compression, to which you can’t go any further.

Choso has already reached that max limit, and his piercing blood isn’t drastically supersonic. It can be somewhat reacted to by subsonic characters. Sukuna uses the same technique which is functionally indentical and uses it to attack Satoru

 

[YukaSama4]

Pb speed is not a threat to either Gojo or Sukuna
Sukuna blitzed it against Choso and since then he kept blocking and dodging it everytime easily
Gojo recited a whole chant while Sukuna's pw was like less than a meter close to Red

 

[YukaSama4]

You don’t get it, do you

Piercing blood reaches a max limit of compression, to which you can’t go any further.

Choso has already reached that max limit, and his piercing blood isn’t drastically supersonic.

Where's this stated

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Where's this stated

It’s stated Choso uses convergence to its limit

 

[YukaSama4]

It’s stated Choso uses convergence to its limit

Bring that scan and show us where:
1) PB compression has a limit that only Choso reached
2) PB speed is only dependent on compression

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Bring that scan and show us where:
1) PB compression has a limit that only Choso reached
2) PB speed is only dependent on compression

1. It’s just stated directly Choso can use convergence to its limit
2. What the f*ck else is it dependent on? The reason PB is fast is you got a liquid shooting out in high pressures. It’s inspired by IRL water jets which reach supersonic speeds.

Choso can compress to the limit, so he shoots out max speed PBs.

Piercing blood isn’t a speed amp technique, it’s a compressing and releasing a liquid technique, which happens to also be faster than anyone in the verse except Gojo and Sukuna

 

[YukaSama4]

1. It’s just stated directly Choso can use convergence to its limit
2. What the f*ck else is it dependent on? The reason PB is fast is you got a liquid shooting out in high pressures. It’s inspired by IRL water jets which reach supersonic speeds.

Choso can compress to the limit, so he shoots out max speed PBs

Can you bring that scan and prove this from the scan

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

1. It’s just stated directly Choso can use convergence to its limit
2. What the f*ck else is it dependent on? The reason PB is fast is you got a liquid shooting out in high pressures. It’s inspired by IRL water jets which reach supersonic speeds.

Choso can compress to the limit, so he shoots out max speed PBs

Being the scans where Choso reached the limits despite Fanbook Gege wrote states PB can get faster.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Being the scans where Choso reached the limits despite Fanbook Gege wrote states PB can get faster.

That never happened in the fanbook

 

[Arkenis]

This thread always has speed debates in it, is anyone working on a crt for their issues with the speed scaling for how we scale the speed? Talking about it here doesn't really do anything and its always the same points being argued, all of it should be saved for a crt instead honestly.

 

[Nierre]

im pretty sure milly said he'd eventually make a speed crt following that black flash one

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That never happened in the fanbook

At this point you are trolling. You don't even send scans to prove your headcanons.

Here is the Fanbook statement

BLOOD MANIPULATION (赤血操術 - sekketsu sōjutsu)
The Kamo clan’s inherited technique of manipulating blood.

A technique that allows the user to manipulate and attack with blood reinforced with cursed energy. It’s possible to create a myriad of moves by combining techniques from Blood Manipulation, like Piercing Blood, which takes the blood that was compressed using Convergence, and then launches it at the opponent at supersonic speeds.

— Panel caption: The greater the pressure exerted by Convergence, the greater the speed and strength of Piercing Blood will be.

 

[YukaSama4]

What I don't ******* get is why Sukuna can no longer use the 10S
Gojo only destroyed Agito and Mahoraga, Sukuna should still be able to use rabbit escape and PW
Also what happened to the totality feature

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What I don't ******* get is why Sukuna can no longer use the 10S
Gojo only destroyed Agito and Mahoraga, Sukuna should still be able to use rabbit escape and PW
Also what happened to the totality feature

He can only use one CT at a time beside there is no need for TS against jujutsu high he don't have to worry about limitless like technique blocking his attacks

 

[YukaSama4]

Btw what are your thoughts for next chapter

I highly doubt anything that high for Yuji
Mahito did a bf in a shibuya and was stated to be awakened, he didn't do anything impressive except like mimic Gojo's domain

So Yuji might just get better stats and better blood manip due to better CE manipulation

Also he might hit more bfs and we might witness a scene where he and Sukuna bf each other at the same time like DB scenes

He can only use one CT at a time beside there is no need for TS against jujutsu high he don't have to worry about limitless like technique blocking his attacks

Jujutsu high are assuming he can't use it anymore, which us really weird

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

• Hakari still considered JJK0 Gojo unbeatable despite only last meeting him one year later, and he’s stronger than Sendai Yuta at his peak

This thread is full of bad takes ngl

 

[YukaSama4]

This thread always has speed debates in it, is anyone working on a crt for their issues with the speed scaling for how we scale the speed? Talking about it here doesn't really do anything and its always the same points being argued, all of it should be saved for a crt instead honestly.

Btw do you think current Sukuna should scale above mach 3 Naoya?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

At this point you are trolling. You don't even send scans to prove your headcanons.

Here is the Fanbook statement

Holy no-shit moment

Obviously more pressure = faster, but Choso reached the limit of compression. He can’t go any faster

Btw do you think current Sukuna should scale above mach 3 Naoya?

He might not even

 

[Arkenis]

Btw do you think current Sukuna should scale above mach 3 Naoya?

No.

 

[Woomica]

At this point you are trolling. You don't even send scans to prove your headcanons.

Here is the Fanbook statement

I read this as facebook statement ig im officially gone crazy

 

[Rosa]

You don’t get it, do you

Piercing blood reaches a max limit of compression, to which you can’t go any further.

Choso has already reached that max limit, and his piercing blood isn’t drastically supersonic. It can be somewhat reacted to by subsonic characters. Sukuna uses the same technique which is functionally indentical and uses it to attack Satoru

we've literally had actual Japanese translators look over the statement here and say it's NOT saying this, alongside there being contextual evidence in the series which makes this impossible. We've had this debate and you had no counter, stop doing this thing where you have no way to justify your arguments so you just wait a day or two to bring them back up again from premise 1 to restart the entire debate without engaging with the counter arguments which stunted you last time. We've had this discussion, we know where it goes, we know your position is unfounded and contradictory, and you know this too.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

BM depends on the user's reinforcement and overall adeptness, and it's Sukuna replicating PB

Choso's PB shouldn't have any implications for Sukuna and Gojo's speed, especially since the former blitzes and has consistently dodged or blocked it while weakened and the latter recited a whole chant while PW was a meter away from hitting Red

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

BM depends on the user's reinforcement and overall adeptness, and it's Sukuna replicating PB

Choso's PB shouldn't have any implications for Sukuna and Gojo's speed, especially since the former blitzes and has consistently dodged or blocked it while weakened and the latter recited a whole chant while PW was a meter away from hitting Red

Sukuna reacting doesn’t mean it’s not still relevant to Gojo, somehow. Gojo can’t be Mhs and have PB be worthy of using against him

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

So what? It's Sukuna's attack. Not Choso's. There's an inconceivable difference in reinforcement. Choso's PB shouldn't even be considered here, especially when it gets low-diffed by a weakened Sukuna

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

we've literally had actual Japanese translators look over the statement here and say it's NOT saying this, alongside there being contextual evidence in the series which makes this impossible. We've had this debate and you had no counter, stop doing this thing where you have no way to justify your arguments so you just wait a day or two to bring them back up again from premise 1 to restart the entire debate without engaging with the counter arguments which stunted you last time. We've had this discussion, we know where it goes, we know your position is unfounded and contradictory, and you know this too.

What are you talking about? The statement that Choso can use convergence to its peak is translated correctly

So what? It's Sukuna's attack. Not Choso's. There's an inconceivable difference in reinforcement

The speed of the pb is dependent on the convergence effectiveness, and Choso can use it to its limits

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Btw what are your thoughts for next chapter

I highly doubt anything that high for Yuji
Mahito did a bf in a shibuya and was stated to be awakened, he didn't do anything impressive except like mimic Gojo's domain

So Yuji might just get better stats and better blood manip due to better CE manipulation

Also he might hit more bfs and we might witness a scene where he and Sukuna bf each other at the same time like DB scenes

POV change to Uraume & Hakari unless Gege is planning on finishing off their long lasting fight offscreen

Anyway I think either one of these will be Yuji's Powerup.

• Full transformation for Yuji
• Domain Expansion
• Full transformation and domain expansion

Jujutsu high are assuming he can't use it anymore, which us really weird

Higuruma was not sure most likely Only Gojo knows about Totality and other things?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Also Choso has been honing convergence for 150 years. There's 0 chance there's much more room to grow from there.