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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
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It doesn't if Gojo is still a high tier fighter and still considered the strongest sorcerer even when his CT is being cancelled out, how is his title of strongest ONLY about his CT?
This doesn't follow, Gojo could've also improved his reinforcement in that time, it's not like pre-RCT Gojo = current Gojo in stats.
Btw, you used a quote of Jogo complimenting his CT but failed to point out how, in a fight where Gojo lacked blue, he also said:
"He's this strong even though he's only using cursed energy manipulation and physical attacks?! Satoru Gojo... is there anything you don't have?!" - Jogo
Not to mention how Gojo, even when his blue was cancelled out via CT burn out, would still be keeping up with Sukuna and overpowering him with strikes.
You simply don't know what you're talking about. Blue attracts things into his fist so it feels like a counter punch, the same way when you're fighting you're supposed to roll with the punches you take to mitigate the shock and doing otherwise would **** you over. Nothing about this is negating AP for "lethality" (a false distinction also).
We've had this argument before, you know he was lmfao. Like when he kicked Sukuna and sent Sukuna flying backwards, TWICE.
So Yuta is relative to Yuki and yet Yuta can finish her off without ever being hit once or needing to ever block or wrestle with her? That's not relativity, your argument is incoherent.
Punching through Kenjaku's arms = punching through Gojo's body? Where's the connection here?
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Read what I said again
He defeated the strongest 10S user
He didn't defeat Sukuna
Gojo literally won against the 10S while it was used by the strongest 10S user
That's what I meant by that statement
Which is baseless, you just ignored what I said
Gojo >> Mahoraga > random limitless six eyes user
Sukuna was literally proven wrong after that statement, in fact when Gojo died Sukuna said "you were magnificent"
Guacamolefletcher
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I don't think they ever claimed it was JUST that. Also his CT isn't off completely, just weakened
His cursed technique was never off, just weakened.
It literally is. Gojo loses to the black hole, but beats Yuki before she uses it. The same way, Yuta beats Yuki, but wins before dying to her amped hits
She can amp it to the point it's using planetary masses, so she'd punch through Gojo, who is unequivocally consistetly tier 7, and nowhere close to tier 6, much less 5
EldemadeDityjon
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This is the funny thing Yuta's cleave giving paper cuts to Sukuna. People were expecting this to do some serious damage
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"Gojo CAN'T USE his cursed technique since his domain was destroyed" - does this sound like it was only 'weakened'?
You're not engaging with what I'm saying. If character A can beat B without ever being hit, blocking a hit, or wrestling with them in any way then such a huge speed advantage makes it so they're not comparable fighters - and such a speed advantage why fly in the face of Yuta being below Kenjaku if he could just evade everything.
Kenjaku's head survived a full power punch from her, so therefore Kenjaku has planetary durability? Kenjaku and Yuki are planetary fighters whilst Gojo and Sukuna are only town level?
Guacamolefletcher
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He literally used red to destroy Sukuna’s
You’re presupposing it’s a speed advantage
He got sent flying away and it went through his arms
If you hold Kenjaku against a wall and punch him with that same force it goes through his skull
Arkenis
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Idk what type of mental gymnastics you're doing but stop. Gojo lost to the 10s, it is the very reason Gojo lost. That's my whole point. If you wanna say "well actually Gojo lost to world slash", the reason Sukuna even got there was due to 10s. And this whole thing is about the Limitless being why he's the strongest, and how did he beat Mahoraga?
No you're slightly taking this out of context. The remark is meant to praise and raise Gojo to what no one ever recognized him as, that he is just Gojo Satoru, he's not the strongest. He's magnificent, in the fact that he's a good sorcerer, nothing more like Sukuna is.
When is he considered the strongest without his ct? Not cancelled out. Gojo can have super strength, be really fast and smart but all of that is overshadowed by the Limitless in jujutsu society.
So what if he could've improved, the fact remains Geto deems him the strongest after seeing how much he's progressed his Limitless usage
And cool that Jogo said that, it does not make Gojo the strongest.
When are you referring to? After they were both brain damaged and had already spammed domains? And bruh why do you keep bringing up stuff not relevant to the discussion? I never said Gojo wasn't fast or strong, I'm saying those don't make him the strongest.
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Nah he said it was close to it.
Arkenis
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Where is it said she increased it to such a level? It's more so that she can increase it to such a density, not that she's always doing so, and knowing Kenjaku isn't some durability god, I don't see why she'd need to.
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Did you read the fight? Gojo did that AFTER regenerating from his burnt out CT.
That scenario would be a speed advantage, yes.
If you punched someone in the head with planetary force, their head would explode or going flying off his shoulders, the fact it didn't and all he got was a bruise means his durability can withstand such force.
There's never ANY feats or implications of his stats being overshadowed by others, if anything the opposite with his scaling to Sukuna and Sukuna's current showings, and when Gojo was fighting without his CT he was still regarded as the strongest sorcerer alive and was glazed by his own opponent for his raw stats.
If you admit he could've improved his stats, you can't then say his title was ONLY about his CT. You're making a false deduction.
I'm referring to during the domain battles, and how is it irrelevant? You're saying Gojo lacks the best stat feats and I'm listing off his feats?
I'm working within Guac's own argument, he claimed Yuki would punch through Gojo because she has planetary punches whilst Gojo has town level durability, I'm demonstrating why that doesn't work via the inverse scaling of the series.
Guacamolefletcher
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Not necessarily, no
She didn’t do this, that’s why. She didn’t hit him with her max force necessarily.
The feats do in fact show this
It does
Your arguments are legit just disbelief that sorcerer strength ≠ stats.
Naobito > Yuta in speed, but Yuta is way stronger than Naobito.
Yuki’s BH > Gojo, but Gojo >>> Yuki’s BH in sorcery.
Gojo is the “strongest sorcerer” meaning the best one overall, not the one with the best stats and no statements praising him as an overall powerhouse mean all his stats > everyone else’s.
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Yeah and you know what that translates to?
CE reinforcement, Binding vow skills - how they manipulate their domain etc. Do you remember how the gang was constantly praising for how gojo and sukuna are achieving the impossible? For them it is impossible. For these two and especially gojo? It is possible. Even Kenjaku makes a similar remark. He expected gojo to die from the gang up from the curses, the heat and pressure coming from the bottom of the Mariana Trench. Gojo was just fine and chilling tho.
"CT" We're quite literally told that them in such a massively nerfed state is far stronger than Hakari and Yuta... It's not just CT. It's like about everything. The fact that Gojo was that strong without his ct ontop of multiple nerfs in the first domain battle, should tell you why he's the strongest. Nobody is saying that doesn't contribute to it, but he sure would still be quite effortlessly the strongest even without his ct.
Not necessarily. We have a instance where a limitless + six eyes user, died to a untamed Mahoraga.
Gojo isn't just "ct and six eyes". There's kind of a reason as to why the world balance shifted when he was born (You don't have your ct until a certain age. so you technically don't have it upon being born) and it's not just because of the six eyes, but his talent.
Gege kinda references this multiple times, both when he calls him a rare prodigy - excludes six eyes, and Kusakabe calling him a genius that can do anything he tries (even gojo's profile says the same thing)
point being made here, is that this is about talent. Gojo's talent is a major factor here.
nah it only makes it possible to use it. it is stated, that you can't use Limitless without six eyes. Completely impossible.
It was a tamed Mahoraga even, amped by a fellow strongest sorcerer in verse.
Arkenis
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I never said he's lacking the best stat feats LMAO. My point is that all these feats don't matter, Six Eyes/Limitless is what makes him the strongest.
You must know the Six Eyes manipulates ce to a better extent than others, even Sukuna, so all these feats you're listing is all thanks to the Six Eyes. And I already said before
Ah okay, you think the "strongest" statements refer also to ce reinforcement so therefore Yuki's mass increase couldn't possibly be above Gojo. Gojo can be stronger in ce reinforcement compared to Yuki but Yuki is operating on a different metric here, she's hitting with virtual mass not ce reinforcement.
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How?
She was bloodlusted and amped herself with a binding vow, how was it not her max force?
Show the feats then.
I'm literally listing off feats, how is my argument just "disbelief"? I'm aware a sorcerer can be superior without necessarily having better stats, I've never argued Gojo is stronger just because he's the best sorcerer, I'm saying his FEATS are better.
Then we miscommunicated, I assumed you were backing Guac's point of Gojo having worse feats than Yuki, Yuta, Hakari, and Kenjaku and only being significant due to his CT.
Guacamolefletcher
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I’ll say also for the record Gojo in JJK0 is just current Gojo - some space manipulation. He’s like 30, he can’t keep increasing his stats and whatnot that much that deep into his career
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You says this a lot about Naoya, Choso, etc., why do you think someone being a certain age determines their potential? You realise different characters have different potential, right?
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That was a tamed mahoraga, amped by Sukuna. And he lost to a binding vow sukuna. you think that's "10S > Gojo"?
This is whilst ignoring the fact that Sukuna copied that manual from Mahoraga who used Sukuna's own technique and changed the technique's target. How is that 10S? that was Malevolent Shrine CT bro.
Yeah it does? What can anybody in verse bar Sukuna do before gojo turns them into a blood mist without ct. that still isn't the strongest? bro what are you talking about.
And he's regarded as a "special grade sorcerer" on a different level amongst those special grade sorcerers. Which would also apply to the stats... because that's how you use your CE as a sorcerer.
Which is only up to a certain extent. He still has to improve on his own. It is literally the reason as to why he's far above that nameless limitless + six eyes user, and why his talent is seperate from the six eyes in the guidebook.
In order to make use of limitless ct potential, you need talent.
Otherwise why is there no six eyes user on gojo's level.
Arkenis
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I think I'm done here. Ima drop one page to prove my point in this. If you still disagree, that's fine we can just agree to disagree since this doesn't seem to be ending with any meaningful conclusion.
Nope. You're unable to use jujutsu, Yuji. Other than simple shikigami or barriers... The ability to use cursed techniques is intrinsic. A jujutsu sorcerer's skill set is about 80% innate talent
Nope. You're unable to use jujutsu, Yuji. Other than simple shikigami or barriers... The ability to use cursed techniques is intrinsic. A jujutsu sorcerer's skill set is about 80% innate talent
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and gojo smokes the entire verse bar Sukuna without his ct. what part of it did you not get.
Guacamolefletcher
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He’s losing to Yuta without his CT, NGL. A tag team of Yuta, Rika, Ryu, and Uro take him out.
We know no CT Gojo ~ Miguel, and Miguel is < Yuta. Yuta catches him in a domain too and gets him. Note, I am excluding any jujutsu, it’s only physicals Gojo vs those people
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every time you open your mouth it's just bullshit after bullshit
Guacamolefletcher
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Gojo doesn’t have that big of a stat advantage on any of the 3 heavy hitters.
Piercing blood is worth using against Gojo and it’s a supersonic (regular, not +) attack which even Choso can use to its limits in terms of speed
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this is just debate baiting atp, get some actually interesting topics your downplay and KT-wannabe hot takes are getting dull
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If that was true, then he wouldn't have had to fight Sukuna solo. Hell, Sukuna wouldn't be giving everyone the work right now, with mostly his base stats at a weakened level.
Gojo's title as the strongest came majorly from his CT and Six Eyes, but his actual stats aren't to snuff at. He went up against Full Power Sukuna's domain, dismantle and cleave and ate those attacks. Whereas everyone else currently fighting Sukuna understands that a single cleave without RCT is wraps.
His stats being above the others should be clear from that alone. And while they got room to grow, I except we'll be seeing some of that when we resume Yuji v Sukuna, as it stands right now, he's definitely got a big stat advantage on the 3 heavy hitters.
Guacamolefletcher
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They’re cold takes lil bro. Me and KT still disagree on a lot, and it’s coincidence that he’s right. I don’t follow him out of motivated reasoning
I switched up as soon as I saw valid and better evidence against my position
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Guacamolefletcher
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This is because his jujutsu itself is far above, and he can’t use his peak skill without people getting in the way.
It’s the reason Yuta can help vs Mahoraga but he’d still get in the way of Gojo’s jujutsu.
It’s still not that insane of an advantage. He’s not like over 100x stronger than them without his CT
What I mean by big stat advantage is something like him being star level while the heavy hitters are town level, but even then it doesn’t go beyond something like a 100x difference counting the cursed technique
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It doesn't have to a big difference like 100X to be a big stat advantage. It's something that's easy to take for granted within the debate community, but even being only 2x greater can be a real problem. Like everyone fighting Sukuna right now, they can hurt him. But he's still able to easily outspeed and essentially one-shot all of them even at this level. Like he straight up would've killed Choso if he didn't have some form of RCT or someone to heal him offscreen with just his hands. And Gojo could block and tank strikes from a stronger Sukuna even without Infinity. Sukuna avoids PB like its a snail and he eats punches from Rika, Yuta, and Yuji like they're just sparring, all while getting weaker.
No matter how big the stat advantage is, Gojo clearly would bully everyone fighting Sukuna right now, even without using Blue or Red. Because weakened Sukuna isn't putting anywhere close to the same amount of work that peak sukuna nor Gojo can do
No matter how big the stat advantage is, Gojo clearly would bully everyone fighting Sukuna right now, even without using Blue or Red. Because weakened Sukuna isn't putting anywhere close to the same amount of work that peak sukuna nor Gojo can do
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Why is this mf even presuming a 100x figure lmao
If a weakened Sukuna blitzed Piercing Blood and turned Choso into an infinity symbol, then no one that he listed is touching a fresh Gojo
If a weakened Sukuna blitzed Piercing Blood and turned Choso into an infinity symbol, then no one that he listed is touching a fresh Gojo
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Guac just likes being contrarian
Guacamolefletcher
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I’m saying in a hypothetical where you think he has a higher AP than Yuki’s BH, like it seemed someone was about to argue
Also do note it’s likely that Sukuna fingers are likely a linear increase, so the gap between even Jogo and 20 Finger Sukuna might not be that insane, and under a 3x gap in power. If gege stated such a thing that X finger Sukuna = X/20 x 100% of his power, I wouldn’t be surprised and id say it wouldn’t be contradicted either
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Guacamolefletcher
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Thoughts?
Cropped out from the embed: Mahito: Patchface
Maki: Toji
Cropped out from the embed: Mahito: Patchface
Maki: Toji
EldemadeDityjon
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He didn't lose to the 10S
If Sukuna didn't have other CTs beside 10S, he would've lost there.
This is not how it works
What do you want gojo to win by? You want him to pull out a JL out of his ass? Or a Hakai?
Or are you saying anyone who wins by his CT is just a random user?
You are ignoring that normal limitless six eyes users can't beat Mahoraga
If Gojo managed to pull that off then he isn't any random limitless six eyes user
Gojo was too good in that fight that he even used Mahoraga's adaptation in his advantage
I don't know if you don't understand how CTs work or you're doing this on purpose
But CTs usually hit a limit, and you go beyond that limit with creativity in expanding the CT interpretation
Which what Gojo did (simultaneous activation of blue and red, teleportation techniques..itc)
If Gojo was a random user Mahoraga would've killed him just like the previous user lost to untamed Mahoraga
You're equating this"limitless six eyes user lost to untamed Maho" to this "limitless six eyes user destroyed Mahoraga even when it was protected by Sukuna, and then he lost to a completely different CT"
This proves that you are reading JJK from YouTube
If Sukuna is saying Gojo isn't the strongest but he's magnificent then so what? You can't pick both
Either pick Gojo is painfully ordinary/random six eyes limitless user carried by his CT or pick Gojo was a great sorce
Chapter 230 "you're painfully ordinary"
Chapter 236 "you're magnificent "
If you can't see any difference between painfully ordinary and magnificent which basically happened after Gojo destroyed Mahoraga and made Sukuna feel nervous for the first time in 1000 years then go reread the chapters from 230 to 236 again instead of bringing headcanon explanations
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And when you say Yuta's output sucks you get jumped with shit argumentsThis is the funny thing Yuta's cleave giving paper cuts to Sukuna. People were expecting this to do some serious damage
Guacamolefletcher
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he likely doesn't have much experience with that techniqueThis is the funny thing Yuta's cleave giving paper cuts to Sukuna. People were expecting this to do some serious damage
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I changed that shortly after
I said he's the strongest because of the whole package not just his CT and six eyes
Yup
I will check that later because my phone is on 2% atm and I'm in the bus
At this point idk what's Arkenis problem with Gojo
Gojo is a random six eyes limitless user just as Sukuna said he's painfully ordinary
Gojo isn't reliable in CE manipulation
Gojo isn't reliable when he talks about his students
At this point it feels you're just a Gojo hater
EldemadeDityjon
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He doesn't need experience to use copy technique as far as series goes. Infact this is adaptation.
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You wouldn't get it. It isn't for damage. It was for humiliation.This is the funny thing Yuta's cleave giving paper cuts to Sukuna. People were expecting this to do some serious damage
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There is not a reason to believe his output sucks. You get jumped because this idea is dumb as shit.
Yall interpret things wrongly and act like that's a fact for the manga. Dude matched the "highest output in history" guy.
